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Bus Enthusiasts & Operating Staff - How to build Relationships

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bobslack1982

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Let's get this right....

The original complaint from these enthusiasts was NOT that passengers had been left behind. They were losing their "heads" over the fact that they had expected a decker and it their expectations were not met. They then took issue with their perceived breaking of rules by the driver when, of course, it is at the driver's discretion who had taken the view that given the circumstances and NOT wishing to leave people behind, they would exercise that judgment. Whatever the individual circumstances of the individuals, they are wrong to take it out on the driver.

On a wider basis, it is perfectly reasonable to make a complaint to a bus company if a vehicle is of insufficient capacity or doesn't turn up altogether.

Perhaps it's me but I've never seen the attraction of travelling on x bus or y bus (or even individual vehicles) generally. I mean, I've done stuff like travelling on one of the Harrogate Electrics to see what one is like but it's no biggie. In this instance however, you have people simply "shooting the messenger" and for what? Because the type of bus they wanted to see wasn't there? Thankfully, people like this in the bus fraternity are a very small minority; it's just unfortunate that their actions will last longer in the memory than those who behave themselves.
Nonsense. If a company doesn’t have vehicles of that capacity for that journey and sends a vehicle that’s smaller because that’s all they have then the operator has discharged their obligations perfectly adequately. Enthusiasts have far too high an opinion of themselves.
 
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Robertj21a

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Sorry but that's not true. I see the attraction of travelling on a certain model of bus, for example, that model has the best performance running motorways and allocated on a certain motorway route, or that model of bus provides the greatest capacity and allocated on the busiest route in town.

I also see the attraction of travelling on railways of 300 km/h (or whatever the fastest train in the country) such that I even want to plan a trip to Dover through London for that high speed experience!

And, if the OP's situation happens on a vehicle I'm travelling, that a driver allows too many passengers to board (for example, getting 40 standing passengers on a bus licensed to carry only 10 standing passengers), I may even stop the driver running an overloaded vehicle and call the police thinking that it's unsafe, but only if the vehicle is loaded over the legal limit (not an advisory limit).
When you say that you will..... stop the driver...

What do you physically do - stand in front of the bus ?

Do you believe that calling the police is the best way forward ?
 

Islineclear3_1

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Just be thankful that "a" bus turned up instead of nothing

Of course, these "enthusiasts" had a choice to board, or not to board. If they were that fussed re over-capacity, then they could have just not boarded and waited for the next one

And, if the OP's situation happens on a vehicle I'm travelling, that a driver allows too many passengers to board (for example, getting 40 standing passengers on a bus licensed to carry only 10 standing passengers), I may even stop the driver running an overloaded vehicle and call the police thinking that it's unsafe, but only if the vehicle is loaded over the legal limit (not an advisory limit).
And what do you think the police are going to do?
 

TheGrandWazoo

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Nonsense. If a company doesn’t have vehicles of that capacity for that journey and sends a vehicle that’s smaller because that’s all they have then the operator has discharged their obligations perfectly adequately. Enthusiasts have far too high an opinion of themselves.
No - I'm talking about generally, hence the reference to "on a wider basis" If I'm stood waiting for my usual double decker and a full Solo sails past because of whatever operational reason, then it is fine to raise a complaint, same as if it doesn't show up altogether. Did you read my post correctly?

In this instance, that wasn't the case. No one was inconvenienced in their ability to travel; quite the opposite, thanks to the discretion and good sense of the driver. Just some gricers got bent out of shape, and let their mouths go.
 

busesrusuk

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What companies actually do open days though, I know Delaine of Bourne have a Heritage Trust which arranges a open day on the 2nd Saturday of every month but curious to know if any other operator does anything similar?
One that is/was an annual event was Metroline's Potters Bar garage. Another upcoming event is First South Yorkshire having an open day at Olive Grove in August.

For the most part, companies would tend to have open day to celebrate a notable milestone. Many open days have been linked to anniversaries either as an operator or as an operating location.

In 2014, as part of the TfL's "year of the Bus" celebrations there were a number of open days during the course of the year. having been a key component in the organisation of these events for the company that I worked for they were great days that were appreciated by both the enthusiast and the wider local community who were keen to see what goes on "behind closed doors".

From memory, we had no incidents of enthusiasts getting out of hand or ding things they shouldn't as we policed the event quite well with plenty of staff on hand to keep everything ticking over smoothly. Any found wandering around in areas that they shouldn't were normally dealt with by the resident engineers ;)

From a personal perspective, one of the best open days I ever attended was that at Aldenham works in 1983 (celebrating 50 years of the formation of London Transport). Amazing place where access was almost universal. I recall the blind store being raided by hordes of people who helped themselves to the paper inserts with such iconic destinations as "The Zoo", Trafalgar Square etc. all being sought after. The officials got wise after a while and stopped what had become a bit of a free for all...
 

Flange Squeal

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What companies actually do open days though, I know Delaine of Bourne have a Heritage Trust which arranges a open day on the 2nd Saturday of every month but curious to know if any other operator does anything similar?
Reading Buses had been doing yearly open days for what must be getting on for around the last 10 years, if not more, pre-COVID. It became a virtual event last year though, for obvious reasons. Not sure what plans, if any, are occurring this year.
 

NorthernSpirit

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Hello, I am an operational member of staff with one of the major national bus companies in North West England. I am a life long bus enthusiast and although I don't take numbers I have an empathy with those that enjoy their hobby and in the past have supported them whenever I can. (Depot visits etc)

However, a few weeks ago, two 'enthusiasts' boarded my bus early in the morning in the Great Border City (Carlisle) and immediately started to give me a hard time because the allocated vehicle was a single decker instead of the rostered double decker - this was not my fault - the allocated vehicle was not available so the single deck was substituted. Due to this working being the early morning to Center Parcs near Penrith, we loaded to 30+, the vast majority of passengers being workers from the same Center Parcs workers bubble at the drivers discretion.

Upon arrival at Penrith, the said enthusiasts then came forward and took issue with the fact that I had loaded 30+ passengers onto a single deck vehicle when the advisory maximum at the time was 19 - at the drivers discretion! When I pointed out the advisory notice for the capacity, they then stated that they would complain to the company as I had (in their opinion) overloaded the vehicle!
They then had the total arrogance to expect me to pose the vehicle for photographs at Penrith before continuing to Center Parcs!

Such people cause untold harm to the hobby - most bus drivers are decent blokes and lasses who will do their best to accommodate enthusiasts whenever possible but people like this leave a bad taste in the mouth. I have to say I lost patience with such arrogance and unfortunately this episode has tainted my view of bus enthusiasts and how I will treat them in the future.

Please tell me I'm wrong!
The actions of the so called "enthusiasts" is similar to Huddersfield bus station's "rucksack guy" a few years back who got all bent and twisted when a bus pulled in on the wrong stand or gave people information when they didn't want any, he now continues his merry mission as hassles and picks on the three homeless blokes who sit on the benches minding their own business at Halifax bus station, he yelled mockingly at them stating "I'll get you a tent if you stay here any longer".

To quote someone else on here in regards to Arriva Yorkshire's stance on booting out the two idiots wrecking a rare opportunity, I wouldn't be too suprised if it was Huddersfield's "rucksack guy" and one of his mates as he seems to stick with First only these days.
 

Andyh82

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Reading Buses had been doing yearly open days for what must be getting on for around the last 10 years, if not more, pre-COVID. It became a virtual event last year though, for obvious reasons. Not sure what plans, if any, are occurring this year.
Go North East also held an open day today at their Riverside (Gateshead) depot.

I’ve heard rumours on another site that some individuals attempted to start up a bus that was parked on display
 

ChilternTurbo

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Sadly, I have seen too many instances of similar stuff at bus rallies etc which is why I don't bother with them.
Yes, I've witnessed this too. I endeavour to be considerate to photographers and not get in their way but have witnessed and been a recipient of some disgraceful behaviour at rallies. I also really dislike the cavalier attitude to personal hygiene that some enthusiasts have...
 

M803UYA

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Yes, I've witnessed this too. I endeavour to be considerate to photographers and not get in their way but have witnessed and been a recipient of some disgraceful behaviour at rallies. I also really dislike the cavalier attitude to personal hygiene that some enthusiasts have...
I'm a treat people as I'm treated type - so if you fling abuse at me on a running day I give back and then some more! However, if you're polite and you ask politely, then I'm polite back.

Unlike some, if you photograph something I'm driving that doesn't bother me, I'll wave. After all, it isn't me you're taking a photo of, it's the vehicle I'm driving. Not that people become interested in plain white Ford Transit minibuses.
 

Deerfold

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I've been to a couple of bus depots - Trent ran an open day for members of the local Transport 2000 group - we went to Derby Bus Depot and were bussed up to Langley Mill with a tour of each.

A few years ago Keighley buses had an open day, open to everyone, on the same day as the local bus museum was open. They were offering free trips through the bus wash, with the bus then doing a loop of the town to dry off. Preserved buses from the museum and their friends ran between the two sites.

I didn't see any trouble at either.
 

Strathclyder

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On the topic of open days, McGill's held one at their Greenock depot a few weeks back (3rd July), with two shuttle services (run with a mix of McGill's own current stock and two preserved Leyland Leopards) running to connect various parts of the local area to the depot. Didn't bear witness to any major issues myself; seemed to go off fairly smoothly. First Scotland East are due to hold a open day at their remote Balfron outstation next month, I beileve.

As for the spotters in the OP's posts, whether or not they were 'on the spectrum', if they had any legitimate concerns/grievances (which, from what I can gleam, wasn't the case), they should've taken them up with the operator in question. If not (and even if they did), they should've held their tongue and withheld from lobbing such verbal abuse at the driver, who wasn't at fault here and is understandably justified in taking a different stance to us enthusiasts going forward. On the flipside however, it has been stressed time and again that such individuals and their loutish, entitled behavior are very much in the minority and that most individuals in this hobby are respectful of company staff, abide by the rules/guidelines and don't hurl abuse if someone walks in front of their camera (goes without saying, but the last part comes with the terrority in regards to open days etc). Sadly, as is always the case with such things, it's the minority's actions that ruin it for the majority and results in the majority getting cast in a negative light. Not something I can see changing anytime soon, frustratingly.

I've seen a fair few in Glasgow hanging about Buchanan Bus Station and got the sharp end of SPT station staff's tongue, much to my amusement.
As above, not all spotters who tend to hang around there (I tend to go elsewhere half the time anyway if there's nothing of real interest and/or if it gets too crowded for my liking) are like that, despite the actions of the disagreeable minority alluding to the opposite being true. On the same tack, said minority, their actions and the station staff's experience with them leads the latter to - not without reason - assume that all of us are entitled, loutish oafs, which is not only unfortunate, but a indirect slap in the face to those who do abide by the rules, don't blow a blood vessel if someone walks in front of their camera and are respectful to staff.

To my shame, I'll admit - when I was quite a bit younger - to not holding Buchanan's station staff in the most positive light. Precisely why, I've no idea looking back; perhaps it was something to do with one or two of them (or the stereotype thereof) being overbearing busybodies with nothing better to do than give folk like me a hard time (there's that 'minority's actions overshadowing the majority' thing again). But time/experience has tempered that view and while I still grapple with the negative stereotypes at times, I know now that it isn't as black-and-white as I once thought it was.

Yes, I've witnessed this too. I endeavour to be considerate to photographers and not get in their way but have witnessed and been a recipient of some disgraceful behaviour at rallies. I also really dislike the cavalier attitude to personal hygiene that some enthusiasts have...
In regards to the bolded part and as someone who once struggled with keeping on top of my hygiene (I still do on occasion, but only really when laid up in bed with a illness or a back injury as was the case last December, but that's neither here or there), I can only agree. Feels like I really am in the minority sometimes in that regard. I'll concede, there may be a legitimate reason for it for some, but for most of those in question, it just seems to be old fashioned laziness and lack of consideration for others (as it admittedly was for me) at work.
 
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anthony263

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Sadly, there are always individuals like this. I seem to recall that Go North East had a similar issue with some specific individuals wandering into their depot in Percy Main.

I would point out that, and it may be the case here, is that some of these people may have particular issues in relation to autism disorders. Might explain why they got bent out of shape that a decker wasn't there. However, that doesn't excuse their behaviour. Sadly, I have seen too many instances of similar stuff at bus rallies etc which is why I don't bother with them.
I'm autistic myself being high up on the spectrum but I don't get myself into a flap 8f its not a bus I was expecting.

Helps though I work in office and out on the road these days as well as being an enthusiast
 

TheGrandWazoo

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I'm autistic myself being high up on the spectrum but I don't get myself into a flap 8f its not a bus I was expecting.

Helps though I work in office and out on the road these days as well as being an enthusiast
There are a great many folks "on the spectrum" who are into bus/trains/aircraft or many other things; I'm not familiar with any research that has been undertaken but perhaps there's the attraction of numbers and order and familiarity? I don't know

Therefore, given what the OP said, it might be that this "not fitting in with their expectations" might have run contrary to this order and familiarity? Alternatively, they may have just been ill tempered individuals. Whatever their circumstances, it does not excuse the behaviour.

The vast majority of enthusiasts are, I'm sure, not in any way malicious and perhaps some do have conditions that restrict their ability to pick up on social cues and norms which perhaps explains a few situations. However, there are some issues that you can explain but not excuse. Verbals to company staff and security guards, walking into company premises uninvited (or wandering away from where you are allowed to go), and nicking momentos etc are clearly beyond the pale.
 

Statto

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The actions of the so called "enthusiasts" is similar to Huddersfield bus station's "rucksack guy" a few years back who got all bent and twisted when a bus pulled in on the wrong stand or gave people information when they didn't want any, he now continues his merry mission as hassles and picks on the three homeless blokes who sit on the benches minding their own business at Halifax bus station, he yelled mockingly at them stating "I'll get you a tent if you stay here any longer".

To quote someone else on here in regards to Arriva Yorkshire's stance on booting out the two idiots wrecking a rare opportunity, I wouldn't be too suprised if it was Huddersfield's "rucksack guy" and one of his mates as he seems to stick with First only these days.

This is one of those classic cases, were WY Metro could/should ban that rucksack guy from all their bus stations, clearly a complete nuisance.
 
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Titfield

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One of the reasons why open days have ceased / access by the general public has been curtailed is not that something has gone wrong but that something could go wrong.

Insurers are bearing the brunt of ever increasing claims generated by claims management companies touting for business. From an insurers point of view the easiest way of reducing risk is to cease any unnecessary activities. Thus no more open days etc.

As a parallel to heritage railways, this is why many heritage railways have ceased issuing lineside photographers passes. No photographers means no risk of one being hit by a train or falling over and making a claim.

Many enthusiasts say things like "Why, I wont make a claim if its my fault, Im a responsible adult " etc etc. The problem is that the claim is often submitted by the widow!!
 

matt_world2004

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Maybe these enthusiasts should be bus controllers or QSI inspectors if they get are getting bent out of shape by the wrong bus or the bus using the wrong stand . Get paid for being intransigent
 

Titfield

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Maybe these enthusiasts should be bus controllers or QSI inspectors if they get are getting bent out of shape by the wrong bus or the bus using the wrong stand . Get paid for being intransigent

Yes for the same reason I have often thought that obsessive compulsive cleaners should employed by the NHS!
 

TheGrandWazoo

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One of the reasons why open days have ceased / access by the general public has been curtailed is not that something has gone wrong but that something could go wrong.

Insurers are bearing the brunt of ever increasing claims generated by claims management companies touting for business. From an insurers point of view the easiest way of reducing risk is to cease any unnecessary activities. Thus no more open days etc.

As a parallel to heritage railways, this is why many heritage railways have ceased issuing lineside photographers passes. No photographers means no risk of one being hit by a train or falling over and making a claim.

Many enthusiasts say things like "Why, I wont make a claim if its my fault, Im a responsible adult " etc etc. The problem is that the claim is often submitted by the widow!!
Not withstanding that it's a lot of hard work to stage an open day and to what end? Most average punters will probably give it a swerve and the enthusiasts probably don't need persuading on the merits of buses.
 

RustySpoons

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Maybe these enthusiasts should be bus controllers or QSI inspectors if they get are getting bent out of shape by the wrong bus or the bus using the wrong stand . Get paid for being intransigent

Going off how some 'enthusiasts' behave I don't think I'd want them working anywhere near buses. Especially those that have a vendetta against companies just because they don't like a member of staff they employ, or don't like the vehicles they run...
 

Aictos

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I find open days interesting, it's not so much collecting bus numbers to me but learning how the vehicle works so it's the mechanical side that interests me.

And that goes for both buses and coaches which is one reason why I prefer to sit as close to the front as possible.
 

Jordan Adam

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A few home truths and honesty never hurt anyone.

Although instead of muttering said expletives, I'd say it directly to them and deal with the consequences.

I've seen a fair few in Glasgow hanging about Buchanan Bus Station and got the sharp end of SPT station staff's tongue, much to my amusement.
SPT run bus stations are infamous for being very anti-enthusiast. I know of countless people who have been approached by security at them and told to stop taking photos and/or delete all their photos. In one instance the police were called and sided with the enthusiast. Since it's a public place the security had no authority to be telling people to not take photos, yet it still seems to happen.
 

DunsBus

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SPT run bus stations are infamous for being very anti-enthusiast. I know of countless people who have been approached by security at them and told to stop taking photos and/or delete all their photos. In one instance the police were called and sided with the enthusiast. Since it's a public place the security had no authority to be telling people to not take photos, yet it still seems to happen.
As far as I'm aware, yes SPT-run bus stations are public places but SPT policy is that prior permission is needed to take photos within them. That's why you see enthusiasts regularly being confronted by security - technically, SPT are within their rights to request that no on-spec photos are taken on their premises.
 

Statto

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One forum i tend to browse rather than post on, mentioned that, last summer, someone rang a few depots claiming they hired a bus, & demanded the bus be sent out, it was hoax call as no such buses had been hired, & you see why some operators make it difficult for enthusiasts.
 

carlberry

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SPT run bus stations are infamous for being very anti-enthusiast. I know of countless people who have been approached by security at them and told to stop taking photos and/or delete all their photos. In one instance the police were called and sided with the enthusiast. Since it's a public place the security had no authority to be telling people to not take photos, yet it still seems to happen.
The SPT owned bus stations are places that the public are invited to visit, not public places in terms of photography (i.e. you can take places of them from a public place, however when you're there you're on private property). The security staff are mearly asking people to comply with the relevant bylaws. I believe it would be a civil offense if you didn't comply so the police are unlikely to want to get involved without there was a public nuisance involved.
 

NorthernSpirit

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This is one of those classic cases, were WY Metro could/should ban that rucksack guy from all their bus stations, clearly a complete nuisance.
A few people did complain about him being a nuisance but I doubt WY Metro could really do anything unless he gave someone incorrect information causing an individual harm, loss or injury - personally I would rather have see him banned from all of Metro's bus stations.

What got me was the fact that rucksack guy was wearing an office shirt, black trousers, plain yellow hi vis along with the rucksack - basically trying to make himself look more staff-like which would have fooled a lot of actual staff upon first glance. What Metro should have done upon being inundated with complains, was to notifiy the on site security who would have got him to one side and asked what exactly he was doing and why is he dressing in that way which is at risk of impersonating a member of transport staff.
 

Statto

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A few people did complain about him being a nuisance but I doubt WY Metro could really do anything unless he gave someone incorrect information causing an individual harm, loss or injury - personally I would rather have see him banned from all of Metro's bus stations.

What got me was the fact that rucksack guy was wearing an office shirt, black trousers, plain yellow hi vis along with the rucksack - basically trying to make himself look more staff-like which would have fooled a lot of actual staff upon first glance. What Metro should have done upon being inundated with complains, was to notifiy the on site security who would have got him to one side and asked what exactly he was doing and why is he dressing in that way which is at risk of impersonating a member of transport staff.

WY Metro could well ban him, & should do, they have enough reasons too, first he's wearing clothes like he's staff when he's not, like you mention in an earlier post, they can get him for hassling those homeless guys too.

I believe there another one in the West Midlands that has full NXWM uniform [apparently given to him by drivers he clams are friends] & pretends he s employed by the company when he's not, even interfering with NXWM buses, i might have encountered him one day a couple of years ago getting off an X51 in Walsall, when i was waiting to board it
 
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