Bus Manufacturer News & Discussion

[Jordan Adam]

It was more due to the fact that the TL11 was manufactured by the truck division of Leyland after the bus division was separated out, and it became more expensive as a result. Cummins was seen as a more competitive option.

Indeed, although my comment was somewhat tongue in cheek.

Perhaps a controversial thing to say as an enthusiast but i was never a huge fan of the Gardner engines, perhaps not helped by the fact that most of my experience with them was with Aberdeens A/B reg Olympians which were woefully slow. The E-DRS batch with Cummins engines and ZF boxes were light years ahead.

 

[Richard Scott]

What happened to the BAE systems hybrid drives, believed used by ADL in Enviro 400? Could that be adapted for a pure electric bus or is it not manufactured anymore?

 

[Man of Kent]

What happened to the BAE systems hybrid drives, believed used by ADL in Enviro 400? Could that be adapted for a pure electric bus or is it not manufactured anymore?

BAE supply the electrics to Heuliez in France, and Volvo-owned Nova Bus in Canada. There may be others.

 

[Swanny200]

And probably because the Cummins units were far more capable than the other offerings...

I believe the Cummins engines fitted to UK buses are indeed still made in the UK.

Yes Cummins units are still made as far as I am aware in the Uk for all sectors including generators for hospitals, the US arm wanted the UK headquarters to make, sell and distribute them all from the UK rather than have other european stockists.

I would assume that is very much a rarity now in the majority of markets.

 

[borage]

One of the diesel MetroDeckers Reading Buses cancelled has found a home:

A high spec diesel Metrodecker left the factory last week for it's new home at @johnsonscoaches

 

[507021]

What happened to the BAE systems hybrid drives, believed used by ADL in Enviro 400? Could that be adapted for a pure electric bus or is it not manufactured anymore?

The depot I'm based at has got one of those on loan at the moment. It's a very, very nice bus to drive.

 

[MotCO]

One of the diesel MetroDeckers Reading Buses cancelled has found a home:

So they weren't a figment of imagination

 

[cnjb8]

One of the diesel MetroDeckers Reading Buses cancelled has found a home:

So they were a few months away from being complete when cancelled? Interesting

 

[mbonwick]

What happened to the BAE systems hybrid drives, believed used by ADL in Enviro 400? Could that be adapted for a pure electric bus or is it not manufactured anymore?

Still in production and drives the E400H/E400ER, but has rather fallen out of favour due to the extra costs and need to change batteries through life.
The SmartHybrid supercapacitor-based mild hybrid has pretty much taken its place.

 

[Astradyne]

NFI is a Canadian company. While there may be some transferable technology in terms of manufacturing techniques, it is unlikely that their existing designs can easily be modified for the UK market.

For one thing, North American buses tend to be built like tanks, and fuel economy appears not to be important. If curb weight in the New Flyer description referred to in message 856 equates to our unladen weight, then the 36' Excelsior at 11113kg for the diesel version is rather heavier than a long E200 MMC at around 8500kg. The size of the standard fuel tanks for each vehicle is instructive - 220 litres in the E200, against 379 or 473 litres in the Excelsior. Admittedly the latter usually has to power air conditioning as well, but the vehicles are worlds apart. NFI buses are not going to be seen on the roads of Britain any time soon!

If comparing diesel version the NFI is a heavyweight chassis akin to the B8RLE, rather than the flimsy lightweight chassis of the E200.

If you look at the E200)BYD electric chassis, that is a heavyweight chassis so will be closer to the NFI model .... and expect ADL bodies to be lighter than NFI ones as well.

In response to the previous poster, I no longer consider ADL to be any more British than Nissan.

 

[Eyersey468]

Indeed, although my comment was somewhat tongue in cheek.

Perhaps a controversial thing to say as an enthusiast but i was never a huge fan of the Gardner engines, perhaps not helped by the fact that most of my experience with them was with Aberdeens A/B reg Olympians which were woefully slow. The E-DRS batch with Cummins engines and ZF boxes were light years ahead.

I agree Gardner engines could be slow but in my experience they were really reliable engines.

 

[Jordan Adam]

I agree Gardner engines could be slow but in my experience they were really reliable engines.

Probably to make up for the fact it took them about half a decade to get up to 25MPH

Jokes aside that is true, although it's not as if the Cummins units of the time were unreliable either.

 

[Swanny200]

I remember the first time I went on an E-DRS batch, the driver literally gunned it up Forresterhill. compared to the older ones, they definitely didn't seem to have any trouble going up at what could be considered a normal speed.

 

[dgl]

One of the diesel MetroDeckers Reading Buses cancelled has found a home:

Nice seeing the Optare building proudly displaying the plughole of despair!

 

[CN04NRJ]

Probably to make up for the fact it took them about half a decade to get up to 25MPH

Jokes aside that is true, although it's not as if the Cummins units of the time were unreliable either.

Fuel economy was also excellent on Gardner engines (I recall the Metrobuses going several days without fuelling on schools in my first job) although vehicles with a Cummins L10 are much more enjoyable to drive!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Fuel economy was also excellent on Gardner engines (I recall the Metrobuses going several days without fuelling on schools in my first job) although vehicles with a Cummins L10 are much more enjoyable to drive!

Gardner engines were very fuel-efficient though Cummins weren't too bad. Performance is, of course, also influenced by the whole drivetrain so depends which gearbox to which spec was fitted. I remember NBC era Olympians being delivered with semi-auto and fully-auto versions. The latter were more ponderous or so it felt.

With the financial implications of Covid, it does feel like we might be in a similar period to 1986-88 where new vehicles may be at more of a premium, although of course at that time, the industry just received hordes of van derived minibuses. Wonder how that will impact manufacturers?

 

[Swanny200]

Gardner engines were very fuel-efficient though Cummins weren't too bad. Performance is, of course, also influenced by the whole drivetrain so depends which gearbox to which spec was fitted. I remember NBC era Olympians being delivered with semi-auto and fully-auto versions. The latter were more ponderous or so it felt.

With the financial implications of Covid, it does feel like we might be in a similar period to 1986-88 where new vehicles may be at more of a premium, although of course at that time, the industry just received hordes of van derived minibuses. Wonder how that will impact manufacturers?

Bus lists isn't working to check, but does anyone know if it was Gardner or Cummins engines in the old M&D Olympian coaches that they used on Invictaway and 101 services?

 

[CBlue]

Bus lists isn't working to check, but does anyone know if it was Gardner or Cummins engines in the old M&D Olympian coaches that they used on Invictaway and 101 services?

I believe they were turbocharged Gardners - 6LXCT if memory serves. Coupled with a high ratio rear differential 70mph was fairly achievable by an Olympian with that drivetrain.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I believe they were turbocharged Gardners - 6LXCT if memory serves. Coupled with a high ratio rear differential 70mph was fairly achievable by an Olympian with that drivetrain.

I think they were TL11 engined as were the Green Line ones. They were luxurious machines when cascaded to Northumbria!!

The XLBs that Lothian have are perhaps the closest looking that you get now in the UK bus industry?

 

[randyrippley]

One of the diesel MetroDeckers Reading Buses cancelled has found a home:

Surprised it wasn't repainted prior to delivery....was the price discounted for it being the wrong colour?

 

[Non Multi]

Surprised it wasn't repainted prior to delivery....was the price discounted for it being the wrong colour?

Never mind the colour, it has (had?) a projected door puddle light with the Greenline branding! There's a photo of it working in this tweet: https://www.twitter.com/johnbickerton/status/1199732009955926016

 

[CN04NRJ]

Never mind the colour, it has (had?) a projected door puddle light with the Greenline branding! There's a photo of it working in this tweet: https://www.twitter.com/johnbickerton/status/1199732009955926016

Why does every company claim their new vehicles are the highest spec in the UK, to the exclusion of any other equally high spec vehicle?

 

[Beemax]

Picture is over a year old, and at least one bus looked almost complete. Why were they unable to deliver by February?

 

[scosutsut]

Why does every company claim their new vehicles are the highest spec in the UK, to the exclusion of any other equally high spec vehicle?

I think the first thing they teach in marketing school is the unimportance of factual correctness. I think they refer to it as spin.

 

[Goldfish62]

I think the first thing they teach in marketing school is the unimportance of factual correctness. I think they refer to it as spin.

I think in the "four ps" of the marketing mix it's the final one - Promotion. But yes, spin is one word. There are also alternatives...

 

[GusB]

Wrightbus seems to have had a bit of a boost:

145 new zero and low emission buses announced for Northern Ireland

Bamford Bus Company’s Wrightbus division has gained a substantial order for three different variants of its StreetDeck from Translink The decarbonisation of public transport in Northern Ireland has taken a significant leap forward with a [...]

cbwmagazine.com

Bamford Bus Company’s Wrightbus division has gained a substantial order for three different variants of its StreetDeck from Translink

The decarbonisation of public transport in Northern Ireland has taken a significant leap forward with a new contract for 145 zero and low emission buses.

Representing an investment of around £66 million by the Department for Infrastructure, the programme will include the buses supplied by local firm Wrightbus and the associated infrastructure. This will form a key part of Translink’s Net Zero Emissions Strategy and will be fundamental in creating cleaner and greener transport to positively impact the climate emergency and air quality.

The 100 zero emission buses comprise 80 battery electric vehicles and 20 hydrogen fuel cell electric vehicles and will be the most environmentally-friendly buses in Ireland. They will be deployed between Metro in Belfast and Foyle Metro services in Derry. There will also be 45 low emissions buses for Ulsterbus services across Northern Ireland.

Announcing the funding Infrastructure Minister Nichola Mallon said: “Cleaner, greener, sustainable transport is key to protecting our environment and fighting the climate crisis. I have an ambitious vision for a low carbon future where we make low emission public transport accessible to people and communities across Northern Ireland.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Wrightbus seems to have had a bit of a boost:

145 new zero and low emission buses announced for Northern Ireland

Bamford Bus Company’s Wrightbus division has gained a substantial order for three different variants of its StreetDeck from Translink The decarbonisation of public transport in Northern Ireland has taken a significant leap forward with a [...]

cbwmagazine.com

Things are very much looking up for them. They've already surpassed 100 orders for the Streetdeck-FCEV (Fuel-Cell Electric Vehicle), despite no examples being in public service yet! Clearly initial impressions in Aberdeen have been positive as Aberdeen City Council and First have already agreed in principle to order 10 more for next year bringing the total fleet to 25.

 

[F Great Eastern]

Things are very much looking up for them. They've already surpassed 100 orders for the Streetdeck-FCEV (Fuel-Cell Electric Vehicle), despite no examples being in public service yet! Clearly initial impressions in Aberdeen have been positive as Aberdeen City Council and First have already agreed in principle to order 10 more for next year bringing the total fleet to 25.

Yes but between 2014-2019 they were bodying approx 130-140 Volvos a year for Dublin Bus, Bus Eireann, who were by far their biggest customer in the last few years and from next year they are getting nothing. They're also highly unlikely to be providing single deckers to those operators going forward either, having provided approx 100 Streetlites over the past couple of years. That's a significant loss of business.

It's good they've got a few orders recently for the UK, but lets not gloss over the fact that because of the fact they were unable to submit a tender for the Irish contract they've lost their biggest customer in recent years to ADL which is a a big blow so a good chunk of these new orders are simply going to be replacing the revenue they've lost because of this rather than being additional revenue.

This is the new Enviro 400ER City in Ireland (click for full size)

(more info here)

 

[ajrm]

Indeed, although my comment was somewhat tongue in cheek.

Perhaps a controversial thing to say as an enthusiast but i was never a huge fan of the Gardner engines, perhaps not helped by the fact that most of my experience with them was with Aberdeens A/B reg Olympians which were woefully slow. The E-DRS batch with Cummins engines and ZF boxes were light years ahead.

Unfortunately Gardner had its head in the sand during the 60s and 70s and failed to realise that the market was heading towards much more powerful engines. It didn't help that old man Gardner didn't believe in turbocharging. By the time the later turbocharged engines appeared it was too late.

 

[Volvodart]

BYD ADL PARTNERSHIP ACCELERATES ELECTRIFICATION WITH THE DESIGN AND ASSEMBLY OF ELECTRIC BUS CHASSIS IN THE UK

Alexander Dennis

Alexander Dennis Limited (ADL) is Britain’s biggest bus builder and the world’s largest manufacturer of double deck buses with a strong presence in the UK, Ireland, USA, Canada, Mexico, Europe, Hong Kong, Singapore and New Zealand. Alexander Dennis offers a full range of coaches under the...

www.alexander-dennis.com

Published: 11 Jan 2021

Alexander Dennis Limited (ADL) and BYD UK jointly announced today that ADL and BYD will commence the design and assembly of chassis for the BYD ADL partnership’s electric single and double deck buses for the British market, ensuring completed vehicles are built in ADL’s facilities in the UK. ADL is a subsidiary of leading independent global bus manufacturer NFI Group Inc. (NFI), while BYD is a global leader in batteries, energy management and electric mobility.

Electric bus chassis assembly will take place in ADL’s facilities with on-the-ground support from the BYD team, and is planned to commence in the second half of 2021.

This significant step has been taken in response to the increasing demand for zero emission vehicles. It further strengthens the partnership’s market-leading position while underpinning jobs in Britain and developing skills in the growing market for clean vehicle technology.

Since it began in 2015, the partnership has gone from strength to strength, with over 500 electric buses delivered or on order. They have clocked up a combined over 16 million emission-free miles of reliable service in London as well as numerous towns and cities across the UK. More than 70% of electric buses introduced in Britain in this period were supplied by the BYD ADL partnership.

Until now, chassis for the BYD ADL Enviro200EV single deck and BYD ADL Enviro400EV double deck buses were fully built by BYD before being delivered to ADL’s facilities to have their bodywork fitted in the UK.

Frank Thorpe, Managing Director of BYD UK, said: “This news underpins the fantastic relationship we have with ADL in the UK. We have always worked closely to deliver the highest quality products and services, and we are confident that production of complete vehicles here in the UK will bring even greater efficiencies for our customers. More importantly,” he said, “this commitment from both BYD and ADL is also a reflection of the acceptance of eMobility from Local Authorities, bus operators and their passengers. Electrification in our towns and cities is gathering pace, and the BYD ADL partnership is spearheading the drive towards a more sustainable future.”

Paul Davies, President & Managing Director of ADL, commented: “I am delighted that we’re moving our electric bus partnership to this next level and building complete zero emission buses for the UK market in the UK. This ensures that investment in sustainable transport for our towns and cities delivers full economic benefits to communities right across the country.”