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Bus Manufacturer News & Discussion

TRAX

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The same has been true in the UK for most of the past decade.

There's a live stream for the UK launch of the Scania Fencer ongoing just now.


Some key points to note.

Fencer F1 is the single decker, F9 is the double decker & F18 is an Articulated variant. All models will be offered in the UK in both diesel and electric variants, a coach will also be launched at a later date. The entire range will be offered as Diesel, Bio-Gas, Hybrid and Electric.

The Diesel Fencer F1 uses a K-Series chassis with an updated version of the DC09 engine rated at 280BHP coupled to a ZF Ecolife.
The Electric Fencer F1 uses an all Scania Drivetrain based on the C-Series chassis.

More key points: it’s a collaboration with Chinese manufacturer Higer. The F6 will be the suburban/school variant, the F8 will be the coach variant.
The Cummins/Scania DC07 will also be available, and 280 hp isn’t the only available power output with the DC09.
The gas variants (compressed and liquified available) will have the OC09 engine, and the diesel versions will be compatible with biodiesel from the factory.
 
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TRAX

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If I am not mistaken Higer builds the body on the Scania-built chassis.
 

Jordan Adam

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More key points: it’s a collaboration with Chinese manufacturer Higer. The F6 will be the suburban/school variant, the F8 will be the coach variant.
The Cummins/Scania DC07 will also be available, and 280 hp isn’t the only available power output with the DC09.
The gas variants (compressed and liquified available) will have the OC09 engine, and the diesel versions will be compatible with biodiesel from the factory.
According to the brochure the 9 Litre 280BHP biodiesel will only be offered as a Hybrid, i'm unsure if that's an error or not.
 
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Non Multi

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It's certainly quite the commitment to the UK market (and sees Scania returning to offering their own bodywork in the UK, rather than relying on Irizar, which never really got off the ground for buses in the UK, and of course ADL). It will be interesting to see who orders them in time - you've got to think the likes of Reading and Nottingham might be interested in particular as they look to electrify in the coming years.
Until it's economic to replace batteries, I think they'll stick with gas.
 

TRAX

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According to the brochure the 9 Litre 280BHP biodiesel will only be offered as a Hybrid, i'm unsure if that's an error or not.
It's correct, if you want a straight 280 hp biodiesel you need the DC07. If you want a straight 9-litre biodiesel you need the 320 hp DC09.
 

Mikey C

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If I am not mistaken Higer builds the body on the Scania-built chassis.
So while Scania talk about their legendary build quality, they're actually selling a significantly Chinese made bus

I was never particularly impressed with the Polish built Omnicity double decker, which seemed to be bought in London because it was cheaper, rather than because it was of high quality
 

Jordan Adam

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So while Scania talk about their legendary build quality, they're actually selling a significantly Chinese made bus

I was never particularly impressed with the Polish built Omnicity double decker, which seemed to be bought in London because it was cheaper, rather than because it was of high quality

The Scania is high quality argument is pretty flawed anyway. Their chassis have been prone to early fatigue and corrosion, the DC09 in the K230UBs was severely underpowered, the Omnicities/Omnilinks were plagued with poor build quality, and many suffer from the classic rear end "Scania Sag" which is presumably down to the chassis not being built rigid enough. Perfect examples of which can be seen below although there are endless others.
 

OmniCity999

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Agreed, ADL need to pull their finger out and get round to their rumored E300 MMC and maybe offer the E400 XLB on a Scania chassis.
Enviro300 MMC & Enviro300A MMC were rumoured for a while.

Perhaps if the aforementioned new chassis' from Scania were available to bodybuilders, it would be more desirable.

A full Diesel, Gas, Hybrid or Electric chassis available to build on would be appealing to builders. An interesting alternative to Volvo too.
 

GusB

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So while Scania talk about their legendary build quality, they're actually selling a significantly Chinese made bus

So "Chinese made" automatically means poor build quality, according to this logic. Do you have anything to back this up?

The Scania is high quality argument is pretty flawed anyway. Their chassis have been prone to early fatigue and corrosion, the DC09 in the K230UBs was severely underpowered, the Omnicities/Omnilinks were plagued with poor build quality, and many suffer from the classic rear end "Scania Sag" which is presumably down to the chassis not being built rigid enough. Perfect examples of which can be seen below although there are endless others.

That suggests to me that it's the body that's not rigid enough. As far as I'm aware the Scania "chassis" consist of front and rear modules with a variable-length mid section and it relies on the strength of the body for complete structural integrity. Of course, in the examples you've given they both carry Scania's own body so they're still entirely at fault! Have there been similar issues with other body manufacturers on the Scania running gear?
 

Richard Scott

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So "Chinese made" automatically means poor build quality, according to this logic. Do you have anything to back this up?



That suggests to me that it's the body that's not rigid enough. As far as I'm aware the Scania "chassis" consist of front and rear modules with a variable-length mid section and it relies on the strength of the body for complete structural integrity. Of course, in the examples you've given they both carry Scania's own body so they're still entirely at fault! Have there been similar issues with other body manufacturers on the Scania running gear?
If anything with Higer bodywork that I've been on is anything to go by then build quality is rubbish. Had one on a trip from work that was so bad told company if they wanted business again they mustn't send a Higer bodied vehicle.
 

cnjb8

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Having now looked at the brochure here's some more details about the F1

There will be the following drivetrain options:
Electric: 8 batteries (254kwh) / 10 batteries (330kwh)
Hybrid Electric: 9 Litre 280BHP
Diesel: 7 Litre 280BHP /9 Litre 280BHP / 9 Litre 320BHP
Biodiesel: 7 Litre 280BHP / 9 Litre 280 BHP (Hybrid) / 9 Litre 320BHP
CNG/LNG: 9 Litre 280BHP / 9 Litre 340BHP

The 7 litre variants use the DC07 engine which is a rebadged 6 Cylinder Cummins ISB, 9 Litre variants use Scania's own 5 cylinder DC09 engine.

There will be two lengths, the first is a 10.9M which can seat 38, the second is 12.2M which can seat 45.
Biogas single deck is good timing, especially for Nottingham, Reading and even maybe First Bristol. Can see the biogas version doing alright
 

Mikey C

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So "Chinese made" automatically means poor build quality, according to this logic. Do you have anything to back this up?
I'm not saying Chinese products are poor, it's that they are very much pushing the Scania image, as Scania have/had this reputation as a quality product, a cut above the British manufacturers (and indeed the Chinese manufacturers).
 

cnjb8

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I'm not saying Chinese products are poor, it's that they are very much pushing the Scania image, as Scania have/had this reputation as a quality product, a cut above the British manufacturers (and indeed the Chinese manufacturers).
There were reports that the original Yutong demos bodywork swayed when going around corners!
 

TRAX

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As far as Chinese manufacturing goes, Higer certainly isn’t the worst.
A premium-image brand like Scania wouldn’t’ve started that partnership 14 years ago otherwise.
 

fgwrich

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There were reports that the original Yutong demos bodywork swayed when going around corners!
Jesus, I've not heard of bus bodies doing that kind of thing since the days of Marshall and Willowbrook - the latter being notorious for it!

I'm in two minds about the look of the "Fencer" - It's a little bit updated MMC (Stylised LED Running lights instead of lamps) meets Mercedes Citaro down the sides. Did anyone else skip through most of the promo video just to actually see what the vehicle and specifications look like?
 

TRAX

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I'm in two minds about the look of the "Fencer" - It's a little bit updated MMC (Stylised LED Running lights instead of lamps) meets Mercedes Citaro down the sides. Did anyone else skip through most of the promo video just to actually see what the vehicle and specifications look like?
Unfortunately it looks more Higer than Scania front and back.
 

Jordan Adam

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That suggests to me that it's the body that's not rigid enough. As far as I'm aware the Scania "chassis" consist of front and rear modules with a variable-length mid section and it relies on the strength of the body for complete structural integrity. Of course, in the examples you've given they both carry Scania's own body so they're still entirely at fault! Have there been similar issues with other body manufacturers on the Scania running gear?
That's a fair observation although my understand was that the issue had been due to structural fatigue over time with the weight of the engine. First Scotland Easts N94UDs had the same issue although they've also had very extensive issues with the bodies from a young age. There's also instances of it happening with Wright bodied Scanias.
Jesus, I've not heard of bus bodies doing that kind of thing since the days of Marshall and Willowbrook - the latter being notorious for it!
Although not a UK product i've heard of the same happening with MAN Lion City's.
Biogas single deck is good timing, especially for Nottingham, Reading and even maybe First Bristol. Can see the biogas version doing alright
I'm surprised about the lack of Hydrogen alternative although maybe that's something that'll come further down the line. I don't really get why they're bothering with Hybrids and i doubt they'll sell much if any.
 

DaveHarries

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So "Chinese made" automatically means poor build quality, according to this logic. Do you have anything to back this up?
Not sure about the buses as I have no experience of them. However the car hire depot I work for has a number of MG3s in fleet. MG was, of course, British until the Chinese got hold of it and gutless is an understatement where the MG3 is concerned but I reckon my employer keeps buying them only because they are cheap.

Dave
 

Swanny200

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Not sure about the buses as I have no experience of them. However the car hire depot I work for has a number of MG3s in fleet. MG was, of course, British until the Chinese got hold of it and gutless is an understatement where the MG3 is concerned but I reckon my employer keeps buying them only because they are cheap.

Dave
We have an MG dealership near me, he does Nissan as well in the same dealership, apparently people have been going nuts over the MG ZS Suv thing, especially the EV version, so many people are now going back with them full of faults, full batteries fully discharging without warning, dashboard failures, safety system failures but regardless they are popular because they are cheap and have a 7 year warranty.
 

CN04NRJ

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There were reports that the original Yutong demos bodywork swayed when going around corners!

The build quality of Newport Bus' Yutongs that I've travelled on I thought was absolutely excellent. Seemed completely solid and rattle free.

The demo (YK66CBC) that I've driven (incidentally now owned by Newport Bus too) was absolutely abysmal in terms of build quality and battery range. Seems like they've got things sorted.

Echo the comments about body sag on Scanias, the majority of the Solars and Omnicities I drove at Cardiff Bus suffered from it though I haven't found any of my own photos that show it at a good enough angle. I know of an incident where an Omnicity broke down and the recovery driver refused to take it on suspended tow due to the condition of the rear end so it had to go on a low loader.
 

cnjb8

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The build quality of Newport Bus' Yutongs that I've travelled on I thought was absolutely excellent. Seemed completely solid and rattle free.

The demo (YK66CBC) that I've driven (incidentally now owned by Newport Bus too) was absolutely abysmal in terms of build quality and battery range. Seems like they've got things sorted.

Echo the comments about body sag on Scanias, the majority of the Solars and Omnicities I drove at Cardiff Bus suffered from it though I haven't found any of my own photos that show it at a good enough angle. I know of an incident where an Omnicity broke down and the recovery driver refused to take it on suspended tow due to the condition of the rear end so it had to go on a low loader.
Actually the original demo was YK66CBC I think
 

Swanny200

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Might be slightly off topic, but if you work say at the Falkirk plant for ADL, can you drive completed vehicles or chassis round the factory on a car licence or do they prefer you to have an appropriate licence?
 

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