Businesses in England that will still restrict entry (via face masks) after July 19th

[NorthOxonian]

I do not carry a red hat around with me.

If a business has an arbitrary rule which requires me to wear a red hat in order to enter, I will not be able to comply with the rule because I do not carry a red hat around with me.

Given that it is now no longer a legal requirement to wear a mask in any setting, why do businesses expect that people are carrying masks around with them? I certainly don't carry one 'just in case'.

I know of some places which insist on masks but will give them to customers if they don't carry one.

Not that I'd be happy about such an arrangement - particularly as the masks they'd give are those horrible disposable blue ones which are terrible for the environment and which I find far more uncomfortable than other types.

 

[43066]

I went in with just my socks on one night. another night I managed to convince the bouncer that they didn't make casual shoes in my size.

Brilliant!

Exactly as you say, it was the provincial, chavtastic type places, which thought they were a lot better than they were, that had ridiculous dress code requirements. Perhaps I just go to better places in my old age but it seems less of a thing more recently (not that I go clubbing much these days!).

I do not carry a red hat around with me.

If a business has an arbitrary rule which requires me to wear a red hat in order to enter, I will not be able to comply with the rule because I do not carry a red hat around with me.

Given that it is now no longer a legal requirement to wear a mask in any setting, why do businesses expect that people are carrying masks around with them? I certainly don't carry one 'just in case'.

No serious businesses are still requiring face masks. Many simply haven’t got around to replacing the signage. As of a few days ago my local TOC (Southeastern) were still threatening £6400 fines for not wearing face coverings!

Then again I’m not sure they’re really a serious business either…

 

[35B]

Do we not have a right to travel? I've heard this statement being made in the past but I'm sure of the detail and if it is real.

Therefore are Heathrow et al permitted to bar people from air travel by not allowing them into the airport?

Like hospitals and GP's etc they can bleat all they like but they cannot refuse you healthcare after all we've already paid for it.

You have no such absolute right; airports (like railway stations) are private facilities and have the right to determine who they will - or will not - admit, and on what terms. There is a widespread discomfort about the ability of private landowners to determine how the public may use what are perceived as public spaces, but are in fact private, but the courts have consistently ruled in favour of landowners' rights. You may have an argument if the airport or airline mask requirement represents a change to the contract when you purchased the ticket, but I would suspect that there will be conditions in their conditions of carriage that they can use to enforce their position.

Provided that they implement a mask requirement in a way that is compatible with the Equalities Act, I believe that they now have if anything more discretion than before July 19th, as the exemptions under the Covid regulations have ceased to apply along with the legal requirement to wear a mask.

I do not carry a red hat around with me.

If a business has an arbitrary rule which requires me to wear a red hat in order to enter, I will not be able to comply with the rule because I do not carry a red hat around with me.

Given that it is now no longer a legal requirement to wear a mask in any setting, why do businesses expect that people are carrying masks around with them? I certainly don't carry one 'just in case'.

Leaving aside the false comparison in your example, you have the choice of declining to patronise that business - just as the business has the choice of declining to serve you (again, subject to their broader obligations under the Equalities Act).

 

[island]

You have no such absolute right; airports (like railway stations) are private facilities and have the right to determine who they will - or will not - admit, and on what terms. There is a widespread discomfort about the ability of private landowners to determine how the public may use what are perceived as public spaces, but are in fact private, but the courts have consistently ruled in favour of landowners' rights. You may have an argument if the airport or airline mask requirement represents a change to the contract when you purchased the ticket, but I would suspect that there will be conditions in their conditions of carriage that they can use to enforce their position.

Or, in other words, you have a right to travel, but not necessarily by air.

I note that Stansted and Luton airports, amongst others, do not have mask mandates.

 

[35B]

Or, in other words, you have a right to travel, but not necessarily by air.

I note that Stansted and Luton airports, amongst others, do not have mask mandates.

I think the point goes beyond which airports do/don't require masks, or even the mode of transport - there are a variety of rights involved around access to services, and my right to do as I choose without impediment is not absolute, so may be restricted by the decision of someone else.

 

[MikeWM]

None of the Premier Inns that I've visited recently have had any interest in masks. None of the staff have been wearing them.

Indeed, the staff at hotel #2 were not wearing masks, once I finally laid eyes on some But yes, I had no issues with PIs back in May (though I did have a lanyard on at that point) or indeed late last year.

 

[bramling]

Your last paragraph pretty much sums up the point I am making. You are also mistaking authoritarianism with a desire to be cautious. Just because you don't think face coverings are effective doesn't mean to say others share the same view.

That’s absolutely fine. If people went to wear adult dum-dums then fine, though it’s still undesirable for a number of reasons not least because of the way concealing faces makes it easier to evade detection for certain crimes. But don’t expect others to buy-in.

I know of some places which insist on masks but will give them to customers if they don't carry one.

Not that I'd be happy about such an arrangement - particularly as the masks they'd give are those horrible disposable blue ones which are terrible for the environment and which I find far more uncomfortable than other types.

This is a very good point. If businesses want people to wear masks, they should at the very least provide them free of charge. Put their money where their mouth is.

 

[Philip]

That’s absolutely fine. If people went to wear adult dum-dums then fine, though it’s still undesirable for a number of reasons not least because of the way concealing faces makes it easier to evade detection for certain crimes. But don’t expect others to buy-in.

It's not about what I expect, it's what the owners of the premises you enter for custom, leisure, exercise, worship etc expect.

It is too soon to expect all businesses and what-have-you to just drop the requesting of face coverings for entry into the premises. It doesn't matter how effective or not you think they are; at this point not many people know the answer to this question. However what you can say is that many people have come to see the wearing of them as providing a degree of protection, rightly or wrongly, and so it isn't surprising that they persist with them in the cases mentioned above, particularly because the 'waves' we've been through are still fresh in the memory for many, along with uncertainty about how long the vaccines will be effective for.

 

[trebor79]

Yes out of politeness, but that doesn't make it any less sincere in its request. If you enter a store, pub, public transport system, place of worship, then you should adhere to any requests/rules they have unless you have good reason not to; and rebelling isn't a good reason.

What if my good reason is I think wearing fabric face coverings is absolutely facile, and am certain that they make no difference whatsoever to my risk or the risk of those around me?

It works both ways; customers should respect the rules of the place they've gone into, whatever you think of the effectiveness of masks. If they don't like it then they can simply go elsewhere

All this nonsense about "respect". You see this in the pathetic signs "Please consider wearing a mask to show respect to other customers and our staff". I've thought about it for a nanosecond. Not happening. I'll show respect by saying please and thank you and being polite.
It's like even the mask zealots have given up on the pretence that they have any impact, so now it's about "showing respect". Next it'll be to show solidarity with the Aussies or some other such nonsense.
Pure virtue signalling. I haven't worn a mask at all since the 19th. Nobody gives a damn. Or if they do they keep their mouth shut, which is fine by me.
I had a discussion with my hairdresser who wanted me to wear one. I said I wasn't going to do that but would be happier to cancel my appointment and go elsewhere. She huffily relented but if she doesn't change her policy I won't go again. At least she's given up on scanning my temperature with the most useless thermometer I've ever seen "32 degrees, perfect". "No love, I should be dead!". Also doesn't insist on hand sanitising any more.

Took my 7 year old on a day trip to the Isle of Wight today. Ended up getting ice cream from "The Pilot Boat" at Bembridge. Looks like a bit of a dive from the outside but is actually a really nice cafe with friendly staff and good food. Staff unmasked and normal though most other customers put them on for some reason. As I was paying for the ice cream I noticed something. The place was completely normal - no sanitisers, no bed-wetting signs about masks, no stupid perspex on the counter. Just a normal cafe staffed by normal people. Lovely. There is hope.

 

[farleigh]

Ah yes - the thermometers. That was an interesting innovation

 

[NorthOxonian]

Took my 7 year old on a day trip to the Isle of Wight today. Ended up getting ice cream from "The Pilot Boat" at Bembridge. Looks like a bit of a dive from the outside but is actually a really nice cafe with friendly staff and good food. Staff unmasked and normal though most other customers put them on for some reason. As I was paying for the ice cream I noticed something. The place was completely normal - no sanitisers, no bed-wetting signs about masks, no stupid perspex on the counter. Just a normal cafe staffed by normal people. Lovely. There is hope.

Out of curiosity, how did you get there?

Early in the thread, the Isle of Wight ferry operators were mentioned as being one business who were keeping mask requirements, and I assumed they still had those rules. Is that the case or have they relented?

 

[bramling]

It's not about what I expect, it's what the owners of the premises you enter for custom, leisure, exercise, worship etc expect.

It is too soon to expect all businesses and what-have-you to just drop the requesting of face coverings for entry into the premises. It doesn't matter how effective or not you think they are; at this point not many people know the answer to this question. However what you can say is that many people have come to see the wearing of them as providing a degree of protection, rightly or wrongly, and so it isn't surprising that they persist with them in the cases mentioned above, particularly because the 'waves' we've been through are still fresh in the memory for many, along with uncertainty about how long the vaccines will be effective for.

If people are that concerned about fresh waves or vaccines losing effectiveness, how come distancing has been pretty much totally abandoned by pretty much everyone? Why are we clinging to this one measure which even if looking at it charitably has clearly proved not much use at all?

I can fully get that some people are still bothered, this is understandable, though I do feel such people are going to have to come to terms with the fact that we have to live with this for the medium-term. Some people still seem to be under the illusion that one more push will somehow get rid of this - we can perhaps blame Boris for some of this with the “three months to send this packing” type sound bites, which were clearly plucked out of thin air. But if people want to stay on the safe side, there’s plenty of measures far more effective than masks which they could be doing, yet in most cases aren’t.

It’s hard not to be suspicious of masks. The scientific fraternity were against them at the beginning, in some cases quite vociferously so (we will recall some quite strident words from Harries and Van Tam). Then all of a sudden a massive u-turn just at the point the government were having a half-arsed attempt to get people back to work, remember how many times last year furlough was supposed to be finishing? All at the same time we were getting the “travel with confidence” messages.

Ah yes - the thermometers. That was an interesting innovation

Not had that for a while. Did have it at a hotel last year - “oooooh, another half a degree and we wouldn’t have been able to check you in”. That would have been lovely after a 5-hour drive.

 

[VauxhallandI]

Ah yes - the thermometers. That was an interesting innovation

I was at a private medical facility in central London last week and they rolled out the thermometer; I had to point out how disappointing it was to receive this in a so called venue for medical professionals and that it didn't instil confidence in me of their abilities.

 

[trebor79]

Out of curiosity, how did you get there?

Early in the thread, the Isle of Wight ferry operators were mentioned as being one business who were keeping mask requirements, and I assumed they still had those rules. Is that the case or have they relented?

Flew into Bembridge airfield in the shared Piper Arrow I fly. Day trip from Norfolk that wouldn't be possible any other way .

 

[VauxhallandI]

Flew into Bembridge airfield in the shared Piper Arrow I fly. Day trip from Norfolk that wouldn't be possible any other way .

Now that is flash! Excellent work

 

[trebor79]

Now that is flash! Excellent work

Haha! It's not that flash really. If it was a road vehicle it would be "classic". Built 1969, a bit worn cosmetically but obviously properly maintained and if I manage to fly it straight will do 155mph in the cruise It can be pretty useful for getting places, particularly from East Anglia where you've got to drive or train for an hour just to get out of East Anglia!
Also used it last year to do a day trip to enjoy the 1938 stock before it disappeared .

 

[MikeWM]

Most of the independent cinemas I saw in Kent over the last few days had signs explicitly saying masks were still required. One even had an apology 'to those hoping to go to the cinema without a mask after July 19th' and said it would 'just be for a little bit longer'. Really? How do they expect that to work? When are they going to decide that, actually, it is all ok now?

Ok, so I'll just go to the multiplex then. Sold-out screening at an Odeon on Monday evening, zero social distancing, zero masks.

A shame, because independent cinemas should be supported - but with that approach, they won't be getting my support any time soon.

 

[trebor79]

Most of the independent cinemas I saw in Kent over the last few days had signs explicitly saying masks were still required. One even had an apology 'to those hoping to go to the cinema without a mask after July 19th' and said it would 'just be for a little bit longer'. Really? How do they expect that to work? When are they going to decide that, actually, it is all ok now?

It's the smaller businesses and community events that seem to be making stuff up. This morning a community event was advertised on our village Facebook page. At the end it said something like "Please be assured current social distancing rules will be observed". I have had no reply to a polite enquiry asking what rules they are, as they were all scrapped on 19th July!

 

[johnnychips]

At Intake chip shop in Doncaster, there were signs saying ‘you must wear a mask; only one person in the shop at a time’. Naturally I went to Queens chippy in Armthorpe, where there were no signs and the mini-fish was huge.

 

[TPO]

None of the Premier Inns that I've visited recently have had any interest in masks. None of the staff have been wearing them. Self service breakfast is back, plastic screens between tables have gone.

Same here. I travel quite a bit for work and the four Premier Inns I have stayed in recently were almost wholly maskless. All in Midlands or North East England tho.

TPO

 

[Baxenden Bank]

It's the smaller businesses and community events that seem to be making stuff up. This morning a community event was advertised on our village Facebook page. At the end it said something like "Please be assured current social distancing rules will be observed". I have had no reply to a polite enquiry asking what rules they are, as they were all scrapped on 19th July!

Had something similar through the letterbox today. A flyer from the local pitchfork society residents association inviting people to the AGM, a vague 'Covid guidance will be followed' or similar. I can't recall exactly as I immediately filed the flyer under WPB (waste paper bin). No actual information as to what those rules would be, wouldn't want to be caught out without my full leper suit and bell, and be refused entry would I!

 

[davews]

We have a referendum here in a couple of weeks (nobody seems to know much about it, voting for a neighbourhood plan for the area with loads of vague things). The polling card I have received has absolutely nothing about covid restrictions at the polling station so I assume there are none. Unlike at the May elections when there was a large section about what you can and cannot do.

 

[Class 33]

I enquired with FlixBus if face masks are compulsory on their services within England. They replied with yes they are compulsory for travel on their services, unless you have a doctor's note! Absolutely bizarre and ridiculous! I told them how absolutely ridiculous that is, and that I definitely won't be booking with them until they scrap their absolutely ridiculous face mask rule, as I find them not only pointless but also extremely uncomfortable to wear for long journeys, and will book with another coach operator or on the train instead. I used to be a fan of FlixBus. Not any more I'm not with their ridiculous stance on face masks!

For us to get back to normal, these business who are still sticking to this mandatory face mask nonsense really need to all hurry up and scrap this! How much longer are businesses like this going to keep this nonsense going?

Anyone have any observations on what it's like travelling with National Express and Megabus. Do they encourage face mask wearing or even enforce it by refusing travel without them(or a doctor's note for those not wearing them!!)?

 

[londonteacher]

I enquired with FlixBus if face masks are compulsory on their services within England. They replied with yes they are compulsory, unless you have a doctor's note! Absolutely bizarre and ridiculous! I told them how absolutely ridiculous that is, and that I won't be booking with them until they scrap their absolutely ridiculous face mask rule, as I find them not only pointless but also extremely uncomfortable to wear for long journeys, and will book with another coach operator or on the train instead. I used to be a fan of FlixBus. Not any more I'm not with their ridiculous stance on face masks!

Anyone have any observations on what it's like travelling with National Express and Megabus. Do they encourage face mask wearing or even enforce it by refusing travel without them(or a doctor's note for those not wearing them!!)?

Travelling on Flixbus in the last week this was not my experience. The wording of the driver was, which I find acceptable and is the truth, "In line with government guidance, we recommend the wearing of face coverings should this service become full, but this service is unlikely to do so so we will leave it there."

Perfectly acceptable!

 

[Yew]

I was at a private medical facility in central London last week and they rolled out the thermometer; I had to point out how disappointing it was to receive this in a so called venue for medical professionals and that it didn't instil confidence in me of their abilities.

It's a shame they mostly died out before the winter, I was looking forward to a getting "4 degrees, you're fine" on a cold day.

 

[Essan]

As an aside, whilst I do not ask customers to wear a mask in my shop, the vast majority do so. Of all ages. Those who don't are mostly regulars who know I am happy for people not to wear them.

In conversation, most of the later still do in other shops (including myself)

 

[trebor79]

I got dirty looks in a neighbouring billage shop. Sign on the door asking for masks to be worn. I went in, 2 masked staff and I was the only customer. I ignored the dirty looks and complimented them on the refurbishment.

Ely Food Station always seems to have the same lass working in the evenings I go in. Usually she can be seen pottering about bare faced if there's no one there "Oh, sorry" and she puts a mask on. Told her not to bother on my account.
Still not open in the early mornings. I miss my bacon or sausage butty.

 

[johnnychips]

I got dirty looks in a neighbouring billage shop. Sign on the door asking for masks to be worn. I went in, 2 masked staff and I was the only customer. I ignored the dirty looks and complimented them on the refurbishment.

Ely Food Station always seems to have the same lass working in the evenings I go in. Usually she can be seen pottering about bare faced if there's no one there "Oh, sorry" and she puts a mask on. Told her not to bother on my account.
Still not open in the early mornings. I miss my bacon or sausage butty.

What is a billage shop?

 

[adc82140]

It's a shame they mostly died out before the winter, I was looking forward to a getting "4 degrees, you're fine" on a cold day.

I had an entertaining incident at one of the hospitals I work at last winter. It was a freezing morning, and I'd spent quite a while outside farting around with data cables trying to get our unit to talk to the main hospital. I was temperature checked on the way in, and remained clinically dead for at least half an hour.

 

[Bikeman78]

Pure virtue signalling. I haven't worn a mask at all since the 19th. Nobody gives a damn. Or if they do they keep their mouth shut, which is fine by me.
I had a discussion with my hairdresser who wanted me to wear one. I said I wasn't going to do that but would be happier to cancel my appointment and go elsewhere. She huffily relented but if she doesn't change her policy I won't go again. At least she's given up on scanning my temperature with the most useless thermometer I've ever seen "32 degrees, perfect". "No love, I should be dead!". Also doesn't insist on hand sanitising any more.

My barber has never given a stuff about masks. My work has a temperature scanner. I don't think anyone has ever set it off.

Meanwhile some friends of a colleague have had a baby recently. Apparently they want all visitors to take a test before they come to see the baby!