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Businesses in England that will still restrict entry (via face masks) after July 19th

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Failed Unit

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I daresay the lack of profit will eventually win out over decreasing covers
Hopefully. I will make a point of telling the owner why I stopped going in once they see sense. (Or if I see her around and about). Not going to bother saying on social media.
 
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MattA7

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Although I’m not a fan of Borris to his credit he has done a couple of positive things this week such as abolishing restrictions dispite criticism from the pro restriction brigade and had called that ridiculous sugar and salt tax a unattractive move.
 

Jonny

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Logisically speaking, you can only run spot checks when you really need continuous enforcement of face-mask wearing for it to be effective.
 

XAM2175

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This whole setup now of encouraging masks but not legally requiring them has created some "outstanding" levels of division and conflict in recent days, which makes me believe the Government wanted this in the same way division distracts from all sorts of other antics of theirs.
Indeed; it's a shameless shirking of responsibility.
 

Andyh82

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This forum does seem unduly obsessed about masks

I’m sure if Boris had announced a 4th lockdown on Monday but had scrapped the wearing of masks, many here would have seen that as a result!

Seems to have caused more anger and debate here than any other restriction
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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This forum does seem unduly obsessed about masks

I’m sure if Boris had announced a 4th lockdown on Monday but had scrapped the wearing of masks, many here would have seen that as a result!

Seems to have caused more anger and debate here than any other restriction
I note what you say above, but on the TfGM email update today, the following is shown and I have used exactly the same emboldened type as in their notification......

Update on face coverings

There will be a requirement for passengers to wear a face covering on Metrolink after 19 July.

Anyone not wearing a face covering and not exempt will not be allowed to travel of face a fine of up to £100.
 

takno

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This forum does seem unduly obsessed about masks

I’m sure if Boris had announced a 4th lockdown on Monday but had scrapped the wearing of masks, many here would have seen that as a result!

Seems to have caused more anger and debate here than any other restriction
It's really only an undue obsession if they don't bother you that much. A lot of the policymaking is based on scientists' and politicians' conviction that masks aren't that much bother. Unfortunately that's an opinion formed from personal experience rather than by asking people. A sizeable minority of the population experience the things rather differently.

Added to which, this is a rail forum, and rail is pretty much ground zero for services which are being heavily impacted by masks.
 

Failed Unit

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This forum does seem unduly obsessed about masks

I’m sure if Boris had announced a 4th lockdown on Monday but had scrapped the wearing of masks, many here would have seen that as a result!

Seems to have caused more anger and debate here than any other restriction
I guess because it isn't actually proved to be effective, but is causing a lot of needless discrimination. The DDA (2010) has resulted in a good push for accessible public transport, shops and offices. This is now getting undone where many people with valid medical conditions are getting bullied out of using public transport, shops etc because of something that is not actually proved to make a blind bit of difference. It is just on the well it may help, doesn't hurt the majority and is seen to be doing something. Imagine the outcry if wheelchairs were banned from entering shopping centers because they may injure other shoppers by running over them with their wheelchair. Moving from the door of a cafe to a table is low risk, but we are mandated to do it, just to show we are doing something. But now many can't go into said cafe because they may be challenged to why they can't wear a mask. This kind of discrimination is not acceptable.

Things like the 1m+ social distancing between tables at least you can see some justifcation.

Speaking of which, I wonder if these 1 way systems in shopping centers are about to go,

I wonder if the businesses that are forcing people out by enforcing these masks will feel when they lose a lot of business to online stores. I am vocal about the masks, many are not and just quietly shop online. These businesses that have forced us out will be the first complaining if they need to close, I won't shed a tear if they have rejected my business by making it uncomfortable to use them by enforcing a pointless requirement.
 

Watershed

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I note what you say above, but on the TfGM email update today, the following is shown and I have used exactly the same emboldened type as in their notification......

Update on face coverings

There will be a requirement for passengers to wear a face covering on Metrolink after 19 July.

Anyone not wearing a face covering and not exempt will not be allowed to travel of face a fine of up to £100.
Do they actually have the power to fine people for not wearing one? I strongly suspect they don't.
They appear to have updated their Conditions of Carriage but there is no offence you would commit by failing to wear a face covering, and hence nothing to be "fined" for. In other words, the same as with TfL - you could be denied travel or removed, but there is no other penalty.
 

Failed Unit

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Do they actually have the power to fine people for not wearing one? I strongly suspect they don't.
To me - it seems impossible to fine.

"Why are you not wearing a mask?" - "I am exempt"

That should be the end of the conversation. I admit that I avoid using public transport as I can't be bothered with that conversation. But they can't probe any further or ask you to prove it.

I did have a conversation with someone the other day. They had 4 people on a bus with no masks. I said to them so-what they could be exempt, to which they said if they are exempt they should be wearing a lan-yard. This is the kind of nonsense we are dealing with. They were convinced they will get covid because of this bus journey because these 4 were wearing a mask and they were not. But they don't expect a wheelchair user to have a lan-yard saying why they are in a wheelchair.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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They appear to have updated their Conditions of Carriage but there is no offence you would commit by failing to wear a face covering, and hence nothing to be "fined" for. In other words, the same as with TfL - you could be denied travel or removed, but there is no other penalty.
Why would they have stated this. Surely their legal department would have been consulted prior to the matter being put in notification form on their website notices.
I wonder if this is an attempt by the Mayor of Greater Manchester, Andy Burnham, to do a bit of political left-wing flag flying?

I see it did not mention buses or trains, just Metrolink trams.
 

NorthOxonian

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This forum does seem unduly obsessed about masks

I’m sure if Boris had announced a 4th lockdown on Monday but had scrapped the wearing of masks, many here would have seen that as a result!

Seems to have caused more anger and debate here than any other restriction
It's probably the restriction I'm personally most worried about. I've spoken before about how isolating I find them - life in a faceless society is absolutely horrific. It makes communication difficult for many, and it has led to many arguments.

What annoys me most is the way some seem keen to keep them around forever. Every single person who goes on about it being polite, or preventing colds and the flu, or that it's what they do in "Asia", and uses that as a justification for keeping them forever, deserves contempt.

I think the reason why they take up so much space on the forum is because they're so visible. It is the most obvious sign that things are not normal. And as far as I'm concerned, no matter how many "freedom days" we have, as long as masks are a common sight we will not be back to normal.
 

Failed Unit

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Why would they have stated this. Surely their legal department would have been consulted prior to the matter being put in notification form on their website notices.
I wonder if this is an attempt by the Mayor of Greater Manchester, Andy Burnham, to do a bit of political left-wing flag flying?

I see it did not mention buses or trains, just Metrolink trams.
Fear I suspect. Like many parking restrictions that when the case gets to court it is discovered they are not legal, but some pay it without challenging it so they will be happy.
 

greyman42

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Regardless of whatever the business decides, it's not muddled at all. There will be no legal requirement to wear a mask. They can ask you politely (and I think that will be largely limited to posters) and you can politely refuse.
I will not be wearing a mask anywhere.
That is correct. If people are getting muddled, then they must get muddled very easily.
 

Watershed

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Why would they have stated this. Surely their legal department would have been consulted prior to the matter being put in notification form on their website notices.
I wonder if this is an attempt by the Mayor of Greater Manchester, Andy Burnham, to do a bit of political left-wing flag flying?

I see it did not mention buses or trains, just Metrolink trams.
I'm bemused at the suggestion that this would have been passed through their legal department! It was almost certainly a rushed through press release.

TfGM don't face any consequences if they lie about the penalty for not wearing a face covering. You can be sure that Burnham (or someone of his ilk) will have directed the press officers to send out this politically motivated diatribe.

TfGM doesn't have authority over the buses or trains, hence they can't impose any kind of mandate there. They've still said they're going to try and impose a mandate at their bus stations and transport interchanges.

So I imagine you'll "have" to wear a mask at Buckshaw Parkway - but can then take it off once you board your train :rolleyes:
 
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brad465

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In a way, ignoring devolved groups trying to keep mask mandates, businesses trying to encourage/demand their use continuing despite the legal repeal of their mandate shows that we didn't need Government intervention to actually respond to covid.

Just like with swine flu and others, most of the population made voluntary changes/hygiene boosts. Even with covid prior to the Government getting involved events were being postponed and working from home ordered among offices by the companies. Whether this would have ever happened with masks in business settings we'll never know, although we do though some people wore them voluntarily before mandates came in last year.

In the end I think media-fuelled public pressure forced the Government to get involved, and then once they realised the control potential going back was/is difficult.
 

greyman42

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BBC also reporting that Tesco will be 'encouraging' shoppers. Part of me is worried by this but the other part is thinking it is a token gesture to keep the twitter mob happy. We will see in the coming weeks.
Worried about what? It really is not worth worrying about, just get on with your life and get back to normal.
 

Watershed

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Fear I suspect. Like many parking restrictions that when the case gets to court it is discovered they are not legal, but some pay it without challenging it so they will be happy.
I would be quite surprised if they actually attempted to impose any kind of "fine". They could get into quite a bit of legal bother if they tried.
 

trebor79

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To me - it seems impossible to fine.

"Why are you not wearing a mask?" - "I am exempt"

That should be the end of the conversation.
From personal experience - that is the end of the conversation and I'm quite happy to have that conversation once in a blue moon rather than suffer hours of having a damp piece of cloth clamped to my face.
 

yorkie

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This forum does seem unduly obsessed about masks...
No, the forum has no such obsession.

What you meant to say is that several forum members are concerned about mask regulations; this is a reflection of wider society and you only have to look at Twitter (for example the replies to Sadiq Khan) to see how strongly many people feel. If I get round to it, I'll aim to edit this post to include a selection of comments for your perusal.
 

initiation

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Worried about what? It really is not worth worrying about, just get on with your life and get back to normal.

I'm worried about that they will become a permanent feature of public life. That children will spend years not seeing the faces of strangers. That we will lose a huge amount of non-verbal communication. That people will treat others as walking petri dishes. Masks are by far the most visible reminder that the Government wants us to know our lives are restricted.

If they don't bother you then that is fine. But when I see a whole load of people, particularly kids, being made to wear masks it makes me feel very uneasy.
 

DanNCL

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They appear to have updated their Conditions of Carriage but there is no offence you would commit by failing to wear a face covering, and hence nothing to be "fined" for. In other words, the same as with TfL - you could be denied travel or removed, but there is no other penalty.
To me - it seems impossible to fine.
That’s what I thought, so they’re making up the £100 fine then, that or they’re going to illegally “fine” people.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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That’s what I thought, so they’re making up the £100 fine then, that or they’re going to illegally “fine” people.
I spoke to TfGM at 1715 this evening to a contact there that is known to me and being most guarded in his reply, all he would say that there had been an internal meeting in which the legal view of a fine was on the agenda. I put it to him it would have been better had the meeting taken place prior to TfGM putting the matter in print on their weekly update email.
 

yorkie

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I spoke to TfGM at 1715 this evening to a contact there that is known to me and being most guarded in his reply, all he would say that there had been an internal meeting in which the legal view of a fine was on the agenda. I put it to him it would have been better had the meeting taken place prior to TfGM putting the matter in print on their weekly update email.
True but authoritarians don't tend to do things that way. They tend to act first and think later.

I'm not giving into the authoritarians on Monday and I hope much of the population gives them short shrift.
 

The_Train

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What annoys me most is the way some seem keen to keep them around forever. Every single person who goes on about it being polite, or preventing colds and the flu, or that it's what they do in "Asia", and uses that as a justification for keeping them forever, deserves contempt.

I'm worried about that they will become a permanent feature of public life. That children will spend years not seeing the faces of strangers. That we will lose a huge amount of non-verbal communication. That people will treat others as walking petri dishes. Masks are by far the most visible reminder that the Government wants us to know our lives are restricted.

If they don't bother you then that is fine. But when I see a whole load of people, particularly kids, being made to wear masks it makes me feel very uneasy.
Why so bothered if others want to continue wearing them? Are you bothered if other people wear a hat, a scarf or pants?
If it is just going to become a personal choice then both sides of the debate need to respect the other sides decision and everyone can then just go about their lives without stressing themselves over what strangers are wearing.

For the record, I'm more than happy to be seeing these restrictions being eased but I have no issue if someone else wants to maintain 2 metres away from me or if they want to continue wearing a mask. It has zero effect on my life and therefore see no point in getting uptight about it! That being said though, I will be returning to my face covering come winter as I purchased a neck gaiter as my choice of covering so as to be able to use it as a source of warmth during the cold days :D
 

Watershed

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Why so bothered if others want to continue wearing them? Are you bothered if other people wear a hat, a scarf or pants?
If it is just going to become a personal choice then both sides of the debate need to respect the other sides decision and everyone can then just go about their lives without stressing themselves over what strangers are wearing.
To some extent, there is a parallel between the wearing of masks and people who cover their heads or faces for religious reasons.

In other words, some people believe covering your face should be forbidden, and others believe it should be personal choice.

As a country we tend quite strongly towards the latter. I think this is why mask mandates are an anathema to many who are in favour of personal choice. Mandates are like the above prohibition - only the other way around.
 
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Ianno87

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Why so bothered if others want to continue wearing them? Are you bothered if other people wear a hat, a scarf or pants?
If it is just going to become a personal choice then both sides of the debate need to respect the other sides decision and everyone can then just go about their lives without stressing themselves over what strangers are wearing.

For the record, I'm more than happy to be seeing these restrictions being eased but I have no issue if someone else wants to maintain 2 metres away from me or if they want to continue wearing a mask. It has zero effect on my life and therefore see no point in getting uptight about it! That being said though, I will be returning to my face covering come winter as I purchased a neck gaiter as my choice of covering so as to be able to use it as a source of warmth during the cold days :D

A refreshing, balance post for once in the face mask discussion.
 
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