CAF Civity for TfW: News and updates on introduction.

[PHILIPE]

197001 was hauled back from Donnington to Crewe today

 

[The_Train]

197001 was hauled back from Donnington to Crewe today

Thanks for the info, so that was the 'mystery' carriage spotted on the M5 then?

 

[anthony263]

Thanks for the info, so that was the 'mystery' carriage spotted on the M5 then?

Only 1 carriage of 197001 went back so could have been the 1 carriage or it was 003 leaving Newport

 

[PHILIPE]

Only 1 carriage of 197001 went back so could have been the 1 carriage or it was 003 leaving Newport

Both carriages of 197001 were hauled from Donnington to Crewe today. The camera doesn't lie as the saying goes (Facebook). What probably happened was that both ran to Donnington with the good one staying there until the problem one came back from CAF.

 

[The_Train]

Both carriages of 197001 were hauled from Donnington to Crewe today. The camera doesn't lie as the saying goes (Facebook). What probably happened was that both ran to Donnington with the good one staying there until the problem one came back from CAF.

Can confirm that the carriage with no issues remained at Donnington on it's own whilst it's other half went for repairs

 

[Andrew*Debbie]

A 197 out in the wild in daylight:

https://twitter.com/tfwrail/status/1410931005465284609?s=21

Are 197s going to be in service on the Conwy Valley line? I had thought the plan was to use 230s. Did I miss something?

 

[PHILIPE]

Are 197s going to be in service on the Conwy Valley line? I had thought the plan was to use 230s. Did I miss something?

230s went out of the window years ago. There would be too much to do with the infrastructure to gauge and with the proposed frequency on the Borderline route there wouldn't be any available anyway.
s

 

[wobman]

Are 197s going to be in service on the Conwy Valley line? I had thought the plan was to use 230s. Did I miss something?

You will have to try and keep up with the evolving TFW franchise, since plan A things have changed a lot. The 170's have gone more mk4's have arrived, all 230's on the Wrexham-Bidston line.
There's even a plan now to base some 197's at Llandudno junction, they are also planning on stabling units overnight.

 

[craigybagel]

The 230s were only meant to be temporary anyway - the plan was always for 197s in the end. Now they've skipped the introduction of 230s and are going straight for 197s, with the half hourly service on the Bidston line starting earlier than originally planned.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The 230s were only meant to be temporary anyway - the plan was always for 197s in the end. Now they've skipped the introduction of 230s and are going straight for 197s, with the half hourly service on the Bidston line starting earlier than originally planned.

While a 197 is hardly a FLIRT, this really is a Greater-Anglia-esque upgrade for the line - I hope it goes well and it'll be interesting to see if it not being operated using whatever old rust-bucket* can be dredged up causes an increase in usage. Nice big windows for the scenery, too.

* OK, Class 101s were interesting to the enthusiast and I myself loved them, but for locals it was just old junk.

 

[Bikeman78]

While a 197 is hardly a FLIRT, this really is a Greater-Anglia-esque upgrade for the line - I hope it goes well and it'll be interesting to see if it not being operated using whatever old rust-bucket* can be dredged up causes an increase in usage. Nice big windows for the scenery, too.

* OK, Class 101s were interesting to the enthusiast and I myself loved them, but for locals it was just old junk.

They were busy enough in summer. Enough to justify a three car 101 rather than a two car. Likewise the old junk on the main line was lengthened from four to five cars so it didn't put many people off.

 

[krus_aragon]

I needed to be in Llandudno this morning (second vaccination), so I took the opportunity to wander past the station first, as a 197 was due in on testing. Seeing the red front end on 197001 coming round the corner brought the words "tube train" to my mind, but this was my first time seeing one in the flesh.

I only took a brief glance as I walked along the train (from P2 as it was stood in P1) but it looked very new-train and shiny. All of the seats inside were still bagged, and a few orange-jacketed staff were sat inside. Here's a smattering of my thoughts:

• The square air-con(?) boxes on the roof at either end of the train look rather odd side-on, as the curved profile of the roof breaks away abruptly either side of them.
• The maintenance labels (e.g. engine isolation switches) below the solebar are all written bilingually. This is definitely stock procured by Wales, for Wales. (There was a time when having Welsh and English signage inside 158 cabins was a novel thing, as I recall.)
• I certainly didn't expect it to sound like a steam engine! After it had come to a stop, there was a loud noise from below the far carriage (the DMS, if I remember the window layout correctly), much like a piston exhaust valve on a steam engine stood idle. While it sounded very unexpected, a quick visit to some youtube footage suggests it's common to other 197s too, so probably by design.

When departing, the 197 accelerated away (after sounding its horn), but shortly came to a stand again. I didn't hang about any longer, as my appointment was due, but a look on Realtime Trains suggests it continued on time to the Junction, but didn't proceed to Blaenau as planned.

 

[37424]

So the window' are different to a 196; it looks like back to a 195 window layout.

 

[wobman]

I needed to be in Llandudno this morning (second vaccination), so I took the opportunity to wander past the station first, as a 197 was due in on testing. Seeing the red front end on 197001 coming round the corner brought the words "tube train" to my mind, but this was my first time seeing one in the flesh.

I only took a brief glance as I walked along the train (from P2 as it was stood in P1) but it looked very new-train and shiny. All of the seats inside were still bagged, and a few orange-jacketed staff were sat inside. Here's a smattering of my thoughts:

• The square air-con(?) boxes on the roof at either end of the train look rather odd side-on, as the curved profile of the roof breaks away abruptly either side of them.
• The maintenance labels (e.g. engine isolation switches) below the solebar are all written bilingually. This is definitely stock procured by Wales, for Wales. (There was a time when having Welsh and English signage inside 158 cabins was a novel thing, as I recall.)
• I certainly didn't expect it to sound like a steam engine! After it had come to a stop, there was a loud noise from below the far carriage (the DMS, if I remember the window layout correctly), much like a piston exhaust valve on a steam engine stood idle. While it sounded very unexpected, a quick visit to some youtube footage suggests it's common to other 197s too, so probably by design.

When departing, the 197 accelerated away (after sounding its horn), but shortly came to a stand again. I didn't hang about any longer, as my appointment was due, but a look on Realtime Trains suggests it continued on time to the Junction, but didn't proceed to Blaenau as planned.

There's no TFW staff driving them as yet, the next phase of testing is TFW staff on the Chester to Liverpool Lime Street route.
They are planning to be in service later this year, but that plan looks to be delayed.

The RR power units have a distinctive sound to them, there's a lot of exposed parts under the sole bar compared to the 175's. I Suppose that's for ease of maintenance.

 

[childwallblues]

There's no TFW staff driving them as yet, the next phase of testing is TFW staff on the Chester to Liverpool Lime Street route.
They are planning to be in service later this year, but that plan looks to be delayed.

The RR power units have a distinctive sound to them, there's a lot of exposed parts under the sole bar compared to the 175's. I Suppose that's for ease of maintenance.

The Chester to Liverpool Lime Street route is self contained and the unit will be back in Chester within two hours if any problems occur.

 

[wobman]

Just seen 197001 at Chester, it was driven by the ROG drivers along the the N Wales coast on test.

 

[6Gtraincrew]

Lots of 197 action along the coast today.

002 is out on the first proving runs with TFW crew.

3B01 07:11 CRE C.S - 09:40 LLJ
3D02 09:57 LLJ - 10:51 CTR
3D03 11:07 CTR - 12:25 LLJ
3D04 12:30 LLJ - 13:43 CTR
3D05 13:52 CTR - 14:58 LLJ
3D06 14:52 LLJ - 17:21 CRE C.S



001 is also out later with ROG doing fault free running.

3Q11 09:15 CRE C.S - 11:32 LLJ
3Q12 11:37 LLJ - 12:31 CTR
3Q13 12:54 CTR - 14:11 LLJ
3Q14 14:19 LLJ - 15:13 CTR
3Q15 15:42 CTR - 16:27 LLJ
3Q16 16:32 LLJ - 18:42 CRE C.S

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Some pretty strange tracking of 3D03/04 on RTT:
Realtime Trains - 3D03 1107 Chester to Llandudno Junction
3D03 appears to have gone backwards!
Good to see them out.

Off topic, but does anybody know what the engineering work is that has closed the Borderlands line this week?

 

[wobman]

Some pretty strange tracking of 3D03/04 on RTT:
Realtime Trains - 3D03 1107 Chester to Llandudno Junction
3D03 appears to have gone backwards!
Good to see them out.

Off topic, but does anybody know what the engineering work is that has closed the Borderlands line this week?

There's a large amount of jointed track being replaced, it's a big job by the amount of ballast and rails moving about
From Bidston to Dee marsh is mostly jointed and from Dee marsh to neston I think, it's good as the 230's don't like jointed track.
Replacing the track will help the 230's be more reliable hopefully !

 

[PHILIPE]

Some pretty strange tracking of 3D03/04 on RTT:
Realtime Trains - 3D03 1107 Chester to Llandudno Junction
3D03 appears to have gone backwards!
Good to see them out.

Off topic, but does anybody know what the engineering work is that has closed the Borderlands line this week?

RTT does get mixed up sometimes especially with multiple trains. Track relaying is taking place on the Borderlines

 

[wobman]

197002 is in the hands of TFW staff now, it wasn't lucky on its first day but it's early days.

 

[animationmilo]

197002 is in the hands of TFW staff now, it wasn't lucky on its first day but it's early days.

It’ll be nice to get on them

 

[wobman]

There's been no sign of 002 out and about, I've since found out it failed whilst out on test due to DPF problems. Didn't realise these CAF units have DPFs fitted !
So 001 is the only CAF 197 out and about, that's still driven by ROG drivers for mileage accumulation.

 

[wobman]

Hopefully in the future once the 197's are up and running strengthening units will be easier and having more sets will enable TFW to help better cope. Even though people are very critical of TFW ordering the CAF units.

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

Even though people are very critical of TFW ordering the CAF units.

The only people who are very critical of the 197s are a few posters on here who seem to be slightly obsessed by the issue.

Right thinking people will pass judgement on them once they're in service. Provided they're realiable and you can get a reasonably comfortable seat, I suspect the vast majority of passengers will be satisfied. People just don't care about things like the position of the doors and the alignement of windows and seats.

 

[Roger B]

The only people who are very critical of the 197s are a few posters on here who seem to be slightly obsessed by the issue.

Right thinking people will pass judgement on them once they're in service. Provided they're realiable and you can get a reasonably comfortable seat, I suspect the vast majority of passengers will be satisfied. People just don't care about things like the position of the doors and the alignement of windows and seats.

It is not in appropriate to comment on some aspects of the fleet before they enter service. One example being that they are equipped with hydromechanical transmission, and the consensus appears to be that any future conversion to bi-mode / battery / electric power supply will be complex, and possibly not cost-effective over replacing the fleet. So it looks as though the railway will continue burning hydrocarbons for decades to come, and may become one of the most polluting types of transport - in an age that is likely to become ever more concerned about carbon emissions and other pollutants.

Granted the 197s will serve some routes that are unlikely to be electrified during the expected lifetime of these units, but to purchase a fleet with no easy route to battery / bi-mode operation seems short-sighted - and it did at the time the decision was made - global warming, and its linkage to carbon emissions is hardly something that's arisen overnight!

 

[wobman]

It is not in appropriate to comment on some aspects of the fleet before they enter service. One example being that they are equipped with hydromechanical transmission, and the consensus appears to be that any future conversion to bi-mode / battery / electric power supply will be complex, and possibly not cost-effective over replacing the fleet. So it looks as though the railway will continue burning hydrocarbons for decades to come, and may become one of the most polluting types of transport - in an age that is likely to become ever more concerned about carbon emissions and other pollutants.

Granted the 197s will serve some routes that are unlikely to be electrified during the expected lifetime of these units, but to purchase a fleet with no easy route to battery / bi-mode operation seems short-sighted - and it did at the time the decision was made - global warming, and its linkage to carbon emissions is hardly something that's arisen overnight!

CAF do offer an hybrid RR MTU power unit that could possibly be used, TFW have a limited budget and new CAF DMU's that are one universal fleet make financial Sence in the long term.

The CAF engines are DMU's but they are Euro 5/6 dpf equipped powerplants, the most efficient out there.
In an ideal world the units would have bimodel or trimodal, but TFW just dont have the budget.

After the ATW non growth mess of a franchise, TFW have inherited a huge mess.

 

[coppercapped]

It is not in appropriate to comment on some aspects of the fleet before they enter service. One example being that they are equipped with hydromechanical transmission, and the consensus appears to be that any future conversion to bi-mode / battery / electric power supply will be complex, and possibly not cost-effective over replacing the fleet. So it looks as though the railway will continue burning hydrocarbons for decades to come, and may become one of the most polluting types of transport - in an age that is likely to become ever more concerned about carbon emissions and other pollutants.

Granted the 197s will serve some routes that are unlikely to be electrified during the expected lifetime of these units, but to purchase a fleet with no easy route to battery / bi-mode operation seems short-sighted - and it did at the time the decision was made - global warming, and its linkage to carbon emissions is hardly something that's arisen overnight!

Given that the carbon dioxide emissions from countries such as China and India are orders of magnitude higher (tens or hundreds of times higher) than those from the UK - and will be increasing for the next couple of decades at least as they continue to build coal-fired power stations - whether a few trains in Wales still run on diesel in the next few years will make no difference whatsoever to the level of global warming being experienced.

And why do you assume that no easy route exists to changing the mode of operation?

 

[Cardiff123]

The issue with the 197s is that they are almost like for like replacing the 158s and 175s. Yes, there will be more of them, but replacing 2 and 3 car units with 2 and 3 car units is incredibly short sighted. Ok, Swansea to Manchester is meant to be run by 2 + 3 to give 5 car units. But all it will take is a period of disruption or more units than normal needing repairs, and it'll be too easy for a 2 or 3 vice 5 car set to turn up on a diagram.
And the Cambrian line is getting no capacity increase at all, with the same 2 + 2 car sets running to Machynlleth and then dividing to Aberystwyth and Pwllheli as now.
The 197s should have at least been ordered as 4 or 5 car trains with SDO for shorter platforms.

 

[wobman]

The issue with the 197s is that they are almost like for like replacing the 158s and 175s. Yes, there will be more of them, but replacing 2 and 3 car units with 2 and 3 car units is incredibly short sighted. Ok, Swansea to Manchester is meant to be run by 2 + 3 to give 5 car units. But all it will take is a period of disruption or more units than normal needing repairs, and it'll be too easy for a 2 or 3 vice 5 car set to turn up on a diagram.
And the Cambrian line is getting no capacity increase at all, with the same 2 + 2 car sets running to Machynlleth and then dividing to Aberystwyth and Pwllheli as now.
The 197s should have at least been ordered as 4 or 5 car trains with SDO for shorter platforms.

I've heard the 197's are equipped with ASDO but aslef are a fan of it due to issues there's been on northern 195's