DLR B23 Stock (CAF Inneo)

[Domh245]

The front is just similar to the existing units, isn't it?

Superficially yes, in that they've got 3 windows and elliptical headlight surrounds, but other than that not really. The additional lights at top and bottom are not seen on anything else in the UK, as well as the rounded black painted section which isn't full width make them look tall and ungainly IMO

Regular DLR user here, who finds these new trains just continue the race to the bottom for vehicle standards.

Seats reduced yet again, just about all are sideways facing. I see in the usual TfL way the principal concern in the video is for the Politically Correct groups, nothing for the fare-paying passengers. Plenty of coverage given to bringing on a bicycle, which is placed right across the upholstered tip-up seats. I wonder there isn't a special comfortable seating section reserved for members of Extinction Rebellion.

 

[telstarbox]

Regular DLR user here, who finds these new trains just continue the race to the bottom for vehicle standards.

Seats reduced yet again, just about all are sideways facing. I see in the usual TfL way the principal concern in the video is for the Politically Correct groups, nothing for the fare-paying passengers. Plenty of coverage given to bringing on a bicycle, which is placed right across the upholstered tip-up seats. I wonder there isn't a special comfortable seating section reserved for members of Extinction Rebellion.

Incidentally, bikes can be taken on the current DLR as well. The ONLY time I have ever seen this done was on the day of the London Bike Ride, when just a few brought them on to get back to their cars. It's just as well - the lifts up to the platform have a limited capacity and are so slow they only manage about one round trip a minute. How fortunate that the ignored 99% of users, those who actually pay our fares, are able to use the stairs.

The popular forward facing seats at the ends of the vehicle have been reduced yet again, from two to one rows. It used to be that the DLR made much of its sightseeing capabilities, now it seems we all have to sit (if we can get a seat) facing inwards.

The newest trains had the seating rearranged a couple of years ago with more sideways facing, supposedly for additional standing space. It doubtless looked fine on the drawing. Guess what, nobody stands much there, they continue to stand around the doors and in the inter-car areas. It's actually pretty difficult to stand down the middle with people seated, unlike in a tube car, without getting in the way of the feet of the seated passengers, while the vehicle sways around, as DLR cars do (and will continue to do so).

I see a few people taking bikes on the Lewisham - Greenwich - Canary Wharf section, which perhaps isn't surprising as there are limited options for crossing the river by bike. Between Tower Bridge and Woolwich you have the Rotherhithe Tunnel (not great for lungs), the Greenwich Tunnel (which you can't ride through) or the DLR.

There was supposed to be a new bridge from Rotherhithe to the west side of Canary Wharf but that seems to have been cancelled unfortunately.

The other DLR corridors are largely paralleled by designated cycle routes - CS3 from the City to Canning Town and the Greenway from Stratford to Beckton so I would expect fewer people to take a bike on those lines.

 

[rebmcr]

Regular DLR user here, who finds these new trains just continue the race to the bottom for vehicle standards.

Seats reduced yet again, just about all are sideways facing. I see in the usual TfL way the principal concern in the video is for the Politically Correct groups, nothing for the fare-paying passengers. Plenty of coverage given to bringing on a bicycle, which is placed right across the upholstered tip-up seats. I wonder there isn't a special comfortable seating section reserved for members of Extinction Rebellion.

Incidentally, bikes can be taken on the current DLR as well. The ONLY time I have ever seen this done was on the day of the London Bike Ride, when just a few brought them on to get back to their cars. It's just as well - the lifts up to the platform have a limited capacity and are so slow they only manage about one round trip a minute. How fortunate that the ignored 99% of users, those who actually pay our fares, are able to use the stairs.

The popular forward facing seats at the ends of the vehicle have been reduced yet again, from two to one rows. It used to be that the DLR made much of its sightseeing capabilities, now it seems we all have to sit (if we can get a seat) facing inwards.

The newest trains had the seating rearranged a couple of years ago with more sideways facing, supposedly for additional standing space. It doubtless looked fine on the drawing. Guess what, nobody stands much there, they continue to stand around the doors and in the inter-car areas. It's actually pretty difficult to stand down the middle with people seated, unlike in a tube car, without getting in the way of the feet of the seated passengers, while the vehicle sways around, as DLR cars do (and will continue to do so).

What a weird rant.

 

[Taunton]

What a weird rant.

I guess some here want to travel standing instead of sitting, and for bicycles to be laid across the remaining upholstered seats then.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I guess some here want to travel standing instead of sitting, and for bicycles to be laid across the remaining upholstered seats then.

Bikes are a non-issue, the DLR is so slow that most people will just ride them.

 

[Mikey C]

If someone was to hog 4 seats with their bicycle, I imagine the rider would get "friendly" words from people wishing to sit down...

 

[northernbelle]

These look like an appropriate evolution the existing stock to me. Given the complexity of increasing train length, the only logical way of increasing capacity as necessary is to provide extra standee room as we've seen with the Underground, Crossrail and other inner suburban stock such as the 376s and 701s.

The livery is a bit underwhelming although the front end styling is clearly intended to mimic the 'family' appearance of previous DLR stock which is a nice touch.

A quick Google reveals the average DLR journey time to be 27 mins - I can't imagine this being much different to Underground where maximum standee space is a fact of life - most Londoners would prefer to stand than be left behind for the following train.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If someone was to hog 4 seats with their bicycle, I imagine the rider would get "friendly" words from people wishing to sit down...

And therein lies the problem with tip-up seats. I'm yet to think of a single context where they make sense. You either want bike space (which is dedicated for bikes, and not occupied with people unless it's full and standing) or you want seats.

 

[telstarbox]

That's a good point. I took my bike on a LM Class 350, outside the banned hours but still a busy train. Found the designated bike area (tip up seats) but that meant three people couldn't sit down, so I stood in the doorway instead.

 

[urpert]

Bikes are a non-issue, the DLR is so slow that most people will just ride them.

Still very popular in these parts where the only alternatives are buses or Southeastern. The Lewisham branch is rammed most of the day because it’s the closest thing we have to a tube (despite slowness and the current toy trains).

 

[edwin_m]

Still very popular in these parts where the only alternatives are buses or Southeastern. The Lewisham branch is rammed most of the day because it’s the closest thing we have to a tube (despite slowness and the current toy trains).

If you really must go to Canary Wharf, sitting at the front through the West India Quay "roller coaster" is a much more fun than the Jubilee line.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Still very popular in these parts where the only alternatives are buses or Southeastern. The Lewisham branch is rammed most of the day because it’s the closest thing we have to a tube (despite slowness and the current toy trains).

I know, but my point was that unless you have a flat tyre or it's tipping down you'll ride your bike, not take it on the DLR, because it's quicker to ride it.

If you really must go to Canary Wharf, sitting at the front through the West India Quay "roller coaster" is a much more fun than the Jubilee line.

I'll give you that one, I'd go DLR if I have to go there (or the Thames Clipper for a bit of fun), but fortunately I haven't in quite a while, I hate the place, a fake New York with fake plastic policemen where they've clearly sought legal advice as to how close they could get to actual police uniform without committing the offence of impersonation.

 

[Taunton]

I'll give you that one, I'd go DLR if I have to go there (or the Thames Clipper for a bit of fun), but fortunately I haven't in quite a while, I hate the place

Do come again sometime. It's a pretty cool place. We enjoy it here

 

[Bletchleyite]

Do come again sometime. It's a pretty cool place. We enjoy it here

Fair enough, it just isn't for me, it's too fake (and I dislike the way it sits on a pedestal above the poor areas around it, too). I much prefer the City in terms of "big business" places in London.

 

[Mikey C]

If you really must go to Canary Wharf, sitting at the front through the West India Quay "roller coaster" is a much more fun than the Jubilee line.

Ditto Greenwich. A lot slower, but a much more interesting journey

 

[XAM2175]

Seats reduced yet again, just about all are sideways facing. I see in the usual TfL way the principal concern in the video is for the Politically Correct groups, nothing for the fare-paying passengers. Plenty of coverage given to bringing on a bicycle, which is placed right across the upholstered tip-up seats. I wonder there isn't a special comfortable seating section reserved for members of Extinction Rebellion.

I hadn't realised that "Politically Correct" people were exempt from paying fares in London.

 

[the sniper]

I wonder there isn't a special comfortable seating section reserved for members of Extinction Rebellion.

Will that be on the roof?

 

[43096]

I know, but my point was that unless you have a flat tyre or it's tipping down you'll ride your bike, not take it on the DLR, because it's quicker to ride it.

Bikes should be banned from the likes of the DLR/local buses/Underground. It is a nonsense that anyone should be taking a bike on local transport when the bike itself is an alternative to those transport modes.

 

[telstarbox]

Why does it matter if someone brings a bike from, say, Barking to Upminster on a quiet District line train? There's plenty of space outside the peaks.

 

[TRAX]

Video showing completed mock-up and new livery:

They made it look older than in the initial artist impressions....

Helsinki got 20 new metro trains from CAF, very similar to the older Bombardier units. Even though they are fully walkthrough and great in theory, they just aren’t. The traction motors are massively loud and make odd noises, the doors slam both when opening and closing, and they generally just feel cheap. I don’t have high hopes for these trains.

These will have TSA motors, which are usually very quiet.

 

[rebmcr]

These will have TSA motors, which are usually very quiet.

Depends whether they need to search your luggage.

 

[TheManWho]

Bikes should be banned from the likes of the DLR/local buses/Underground. It is a nonsense that anyone should be taking a bike on local transport when the bike itself is an alternative to those transport modes.

What a bizzare thing to say. If I live in, for example, Upminster and going for a cycle in Greenwich Park, how would I transport my bike from Upminster to Greenwich?

 

[507 001]

They made it look older than in the initial artist impressions....



These will have TSA motors, which are usually very quiet.

If they’re anything like the TSA motors fitted to M5000s, too quiet!

 

[Applepie356]

Will the PSA’s get their own cab to operate from?

I know there was a debate somewhere about how there’s no one to emergency stop the train if an obstruction or person falls onto the track

 

[Bletchleyite]

Will the PSA’s get their own cab to operate from?

They don't on the existing units so I see no reason they would on the new ones.

 

[TheManWho]

Will the PSA’s get their own cab to operate from?

I know there was a debate somewhere about how there’s no one to emergency stop the train if an obstruction or person falls onto the track

There will be a glass screen behind where the PSA would operate the train from, and a small barrier to pull across next to the seat to ensure a passenger doesn't sit next to the PSA.

When the railways returns to "normal operations" post-COVID, the PSAs will return to operating the trains from the doors

 

[TRAX]

If they’re anything like the TSA motors fitted to M5000s, too quiet!

They're not the same model but TSA motors tend to be very quiet anyway so...

 

[D365]

They're not the same model but TSA motors tend to be very quiet anyway so...

If TSA motors are as quiet as is said, it's impressive that one can hear them on the Class 230s over the engine sound!

 

[JaJaWa]

Will the PSA’s get their own cab to operate from?

I know there was a debate somewhere about how there’s no one to emergency stop the train if an obstruction or person falls onto the track

There is a different kind of seats with much higher backs in the front row

 

[gsnedders]

For all the discussion of seating here, as someone who spent the past year and a half living near Westferry, I'll point out that being unable to board during the morning rush hour was a thing that did happen. Having more space for standees would be nothing but good, in my book. The DLR has in some ways been a victim of its own success, hence the lengthening to three-car trains previously, and that now doesn't suffice. I hope the additional space made available by being a single unit will provide a decent capacity uplift, and I do wonder where else the DLR can go to improve capacity.