Caledonian Sleeper

[Butts]

Yeah, as stated above, this isn't actually CS's fault, and I'm sure they're extremely unhappy about it.

Why can BA still serve Alcohol in a much more confined environment ?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Why can BA still serve Alcohol in a much more confined environment ?

Because aviation isn't a devolved matter so Sturgeon has no control over it?

 

[D6130]

Yes, certain restrictions apply though, such as seats on each service limited to a capacity of 10 passengers with no exception to that rule and services are pick up or set down only, ie - no day passengers on either the Inverness service from Kingussie to Inverness or in either direction on the Fort William service. The consumption of alcohol in the seats is now banned indefinitely and face coverings to be worn even when sleeping. No lounge car and an extremely limited menu for room service. A full list of restrictions is on their website I believe.

Does the rule concerning the wearing of face coverings, even when sleeping, only apply to seated passengers....or to sleeper passengers too?

 

[Butts]

Because aviation isn't a devolved matter so Sturgeon has no control over it?

So technically trains down south could sell / serve alcohol at the moment if they wished, but are exercising their choice not to.

 

[Bletchleyite]

So technically trains down south could sell / serve alcohol at the moment if they wished, but are exercising their choice not to.

Trains in England could serve alcohol, yes. I thought Avanti West Coast at least was doing?

CS probably comes under Scottish rules throughout as it's a Scottish operation.

 

[Butts]

Does the rule concerning the wearing of face coverings, even when sleeping, only apply to seated passengers....or to sleeper passengers too?

Probably the latter !! - welcome to the gulag.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Does the rule concerning the wearing of face coverings, even when sleeping, only apply to seated passengers....or to sleeper passengers too?

They need not be worn while in your room, the website makes that clear.

 

[Butts]

Trains in England could serve alcohol, yes. I thought Avanti West Coast at least was doing?

CS probably comes under Scottish rules throughout as it's a Scottish operation.

They were not giving it out free in 1st Class last week, not sure if on sale at Buffet.

 

[Journeyman]

Trains in England could serve alcohol, yes. I thought Avanti West Coast at least was doing?

CS probably comes under Scottish rules throughout as it's a Scottish operation.

I suspect they're probably allowed to serve it going north, but have chosen not to for consistency, which is probably sensible.

 

[185143]

No alcohol on Avanti. The night Riviera, to try and keep remotely on topic, is selling alcohol to anyone and sleeper passengers are allowed in lounge albeit at a greatly reduced capacity.

They were not giving it out free in 1st Class last week, not sure if on sale at Buffet.

 

[MrEd]

Is this a wind up ?

Get me BA on the phone !!

The Night Riviera seems to get by without such draconian measures.

This isn’t CS’ fault to be fair- they simply have to comply with restrictions (and as a cross-border service have to ensure that the law of both England and Scotland is followed). I notice that might be why LNER also don’t allow alcohol on board?

There‘s no need, of course, to wear a mask at any time when you’re a sleeper passenger and are in your berth (you only need to wear it in shared public areas).

Good to hear that there might be some room service refreshments in the evening though! A step in the right direction surely.

 

[Butts]

This isn’t CS’ fault to be fair- they simply have to comply with restrictions (and as a cross-border service have to ensure that the law of both England and Scotland is followed). I notice that might be why LNER also don’t allow alcohol on board?

There‘s no need, of course, to wear a mask at any time when you’re a sleeper passenger and are in your berth (you only need to wear it in shared public areas).

Good to hear that there might be some room service refreshments in the evening though! A step in the right direction surely.

Albeit a very small one....

Caledonian Express - more like Quaker Express.

Are they reducing the already exorbitant prices to reflect the reduced service ?

 

[Journeyman]

Albeit a very small one....

Caledonian Express - more like Quaker Express.

Are they reducing the already exorbitant prices to reflect the reduced service ?

Again, it's not their fault they can't serve booze.

 

[williamn]

According to their website there is no room service at all, aside from breakfast in the morning.

 

[MrEd]

According to their website there is no room service at all, aside from breakfast in the morning.

I wonder if that might get updated? I have heard that there might be limited reintroduction of in-room catering but no official confirmation- I wouldn’t get too excited about it but there might be a slight improvement, if not now then around late May/June. I notice on that page they still have up the notice warning people not to travel unless their journey is ’absolutely necessary’ and to ‘follow the government advice by staying at home’ which I believe is now out-of-date; as far as I know leisure/non-essential travel to Scotland from England is now legal and has been since Monday. Surely that will be taken down when the full service is reintroduced?

Albeit a very small one....

Caledonian Express - more like Quaker Express.

Are they reducing the already exorbitant prices to reflect the reduced service ?

The fares are as they normally would be for the berths (certainly it doesn’t seem any cheaper), so I think the answer is no. I think CS will still be able to fill the service going into the summer (especially into July and August) so there’s no incentive to reduce fares. They managed to fill it last August on a few occasions with no catering and without reducing fares so I can’t see why this summer will be any different.

There will be plenty of users of the sleeper (especially the Lowlander) for whom the lounge car/being able to drink alcohol is a complete irrelevance (as is the case with many users of inter-city trains who will eat beforehand or take their own food)- for them nothing has actually changed. Many of us posting on here are enthusiasts (myself included) or those who greatly enjoy the sleeper for the experience (whereas the average member of the public probably has different priorities).

 

[Steddenm]

The Caledonian Sleeper alcohol licence is issued by Aberdeen City Council. I remember when they applied for it notices were placed around Aberdeen Station about it.

Under Scottish Law at present it is illegal to serve alcohol indoors (and only outdoors until 10pm) therefore the CS has to comply with this both ways.

Each vehicle on the CS has to have a separate alcohol licence as they are classed as individual venues.

Most other TOCs have their alcohol licences split between depot sites or offices. As CS don't have another office technically they can't do this.

The Premises Licence is held by Serco Caledonian Sleeper. At least one person on each train is a designated Premises Supervisor who is able to serve alcohol.

 

[MrEd]

The Caledonian Sleeper alcohol licence is issued by Aberdeen City Council. I remember when they applied for it notices were placed around Aberdeen Station about it.

Under Scottish Law at present it is illegal to serve alcohol indoors (and only outdoors until 10pm) therefore the CS has to comply with this both ways.

Each vehicle on the CS has to have a separate alcohol licence as they are classed as individual venues.

Most other TOCs have their alcohol licences split between depot sites or offices. As CS don't have another office technically they can't do this.

The Premises Licence is held by Serco Caledonian Sleeper. At least one person on each train is a designated Premises Supervisor who is able to serve alcohol.

That’s really interesting, thanks for that. Presumably, though, the licence has a special clause which allows passengers to consume alcohol not purchased on the train in their own cabins and (in normal times) in the seated coach?

 

[Steddenm]

That’s really interesting, thanks for that. Presumably, though, the licence has a special clause which allows passengers to consume alcohol not purchased on the train in their own cabins and (in normal times) in the seated coach?

I think that this is classed as "corkage" and CS can make a charge for this but obviously don't. This also applies to a lot of other TOCs.

I think Virgin Trains (West Coast)'s alcohol licences were held in the Nuneaton & Bedworth Borough Council area whilst Virgin Trains (CrossCountry)'s were Brighton & Hove City Council.

 

[Ianno87]

I think Virgin Trains (West Coast)'s alcohol licences were held in the Nuneaton & Bedworth Borough Council area whilst Virgin Trains (CrossCountry)'s were Brighton & Hove City Council.

Quiet! You'll start another "CrossCountry should go to Brighton" debate!

 

[Journeyman]

Quiet! You'll start another "CrossCountry should go to Brighton" debate!

...with 442s.

 

[Deafdoggie]

You only need an alcohol licence to sell alcohol. No licence required if you're not selling it i.e. giving it away or not supplied by you (customer brings own) Of course, restaurants and bars don't let customers bring their own, but that's not a licensing issue.

 

[221129]

The Caledonian Sleeper alcohol licence is issued by Aberdeen City Council. I remember when they applied for it notices were placed around Aberdeen Station about it.

For the lounge maybe. Trains do not require alcohol licences.

 

[Bletchleyite]

For the lounge maybe. Trains do not require alcohol licences.

That was what I also thought was the case.

 

[AberdeenBill]

Under Scottish Law at present it is illegal to serve alcohol indoors (and only outdoors until 10pm). I believe that this is supposed to change on 17 May when pubs can resume serving alcohol indoors. It will be interesting to see what CS does at this point. They could re-open the lounge car although with the limited space and social distancing requirements (until at least 21 June according to Boris) i am not optimistic that this will reopen on 17 May. I am travelling on 21 May so will be interested to see what occurs.

 

[35B]

What is the position under Scottish law about alcohol on a train? In England, no premises licence is required for service on a train - is Scotland different? And how has Scottish law defined "indoors"?

 

[Journeyman]

What is the position under Scottish law about alcohol on a train? In England, no premises licence is required for service on a train - is Scotland different? And how has Scottish law defined "indoors"?

However it's defined it, I don't think that by any stretch of the imagination a train could be defined as "outdoors".

 

[Bald Rick]

However it's defined it, I don't think that by any stretch of the imagination a train could be defined as "outdoors".

Time for a Mk5 Cabriolet? Imagine wending through the West Highlands sat in a comfy chair with your arm resting on a wound down window, the wind in your hair, batting off the midges.

 

[paul1609]

Garelochead station is a particular hot spot for midges. I suspect there are troops of rail enthusiast midges there eager to "red pen" any very rare sleeper passengers.

 

[williamn]

Bizarre to me that on the day that all their services recommence the Covid page on their website hasn't been updated to reflect this, indeed not been updated since 1 April. Info at the top of it is WAY out of date.

 

[Butts]

Time for a Mk5 Cabriolet? Imagine wending through the West Highlands sat in a comfy chair with your arm resting on a wound down window, the wind in your hair, batting off the midges.

Hey you could have a cigarette as well - smoke deters them.