Caledonian Sleeper

[alangla]

68s? I've definitely seen 66s and 67s up this way but don't recall seeing any 68s. What flow is that on?

I actually doubted myself after posting this & checked through postings on scot-rail. Just looking at 4A13, 68006 was reported to be operating it on 7th June. I’ve not looked at any other Aberdeen trains.
For Inverness, 4H47 and 4D47 produce 68s pretty much daily, though they seem to struggle in autumn.
Both of them are supermarket containers.

EDIT: digging a bit further, 68006 seems to have worked that trip daily during May & early June of this year

 

[najaB]

I actually doubted myself after posting this & checked through postings on scot-rail. Just looking at 4A13, 68006 was reported to be operating it on 7th June. I’ve not looked at any other Aberdeen trains.
For Inverness, 4H47 and 4D47 produce 68s pretty much daily, though they seem to struggle in autumn.
Both of them are supermarket containers.

EDIT: digging a bit further, 68006 seems to have worked that trip daily during May & early June of this year

Ah, okay. If it's only been occasional or for a period then it explains why I've never seen them. (Or heard them! )

 

[norbitonflyer]

If there was a desire to move away from the 73s, wouldn't 67s or 68s be the viable alternatives?

67s are RA8, which caused problems when they were used on the West Highland Line - speed limits imposed over certain weak bridges. Not sure if timings have been adjusted for the 73s yet, but it would certainly be an extra constraint.

 

[Bill57p9]

67s are RA8, which caused problems when they were used on the West Highland Line - speed limits imposed over certain weak bridges. Not sure if timings have been adjusted for the 73s yet, but it would certainly be an extra constraint.

The timings are still for a 68, which a 73/9 should be able to easily beat.

In my opinion 57/3s would be the obvious alternative, leasing arrangements permitting. To be honest, would probably have been the most sensible answer in the first place had a micro fleet been available. WCRC takes 57s to FTW, so no clearance issues there, ample grunt both in terms of ETS and traction delivery - so no need for 2 locos and of course dellner fitted once upon a time.

Whilst the shed+ED combination obviously works for GBRf, it can't be helping costs or the environment (bearing in mind the Green party influence in Scotland).

 

[43096]

The timings are still for a 68, which a 73/9 should be able to easily beat.

In my opinion 57/3s would be the obvious alternative, leasing arrangements permitting. To be honest, would probably have been the most sensible answer in the first place had a micro fleet been available. WCRC takes 57s to FTW, so no clearance issues there, ample grunt both in terms of ETS and traction delivery - so no need for 2 locos and of course dellner fitted once upon a time.

Whilst the shed+ED combination obviously works for GBRf, it can't be helping costs or the environment (bearing in mind the Green party influence in Scotland).

Your 57s won't be helping the environment either, as they use a 1960s era engine!

 

[najaB]

Your 57s won't be helping the environment either, as they use a 1960s era engine!

Is one 1960s engine better or worse than two 1990s engines?

 

[Bill57p9]

Your 57s won't be helping the environment either, as they use a 1960s era engine!

I had it in my head that 57s used the same EMD engines as 66s, however I now realise that they are old refurbs.

Is one 1960s engine better or worse than two 1990s engines?

Three to four 90s engines by the time you have either the shed+ED combo or 2x73/9s.

Still, my main point is that surely a single 57 would be cheaper to operate than the current double heading. Especially the operational complexities of the shed+ED combo. Happy to admit though that I am merely an armchair observer and that it isn't realistic to change things now.

 

[43096]

Is one 1960s engine better or worse than two 1990s engines?

The 73/9s use MTU 4000 R43 engines which are Stage 3A emissions compliant, so more modern than the 1990s (even if the original MTU 4000 is from then).

 

[XAM2175]

I had it in my head that 57s used the same EMD engines as 66s, however I now realise that they are old refurbs.

The 57s use V12 versions of the 16-645 model in the 59s, which may be what gave you the idea.

 

[JohnMcL7]

I had it in my head that 57s used the same EMD engines as 66s, however I now realise that they are old refurbs.

Three to four 90s engines by the time you have either the shed+ED combo or 2x73/9s.

Still, my main point is that surely a single 57 would be cheaper to operate than the current double heading. Especially the operational complexities of the shed+ED combo. Happy to admit though that I am merely an armchair observer and that it isn't realistic to change things now.

It's not just about power though as the dual locomotives on the Highland portion offer redundancy that a single locomotive would not, I don't know locos are available on the other lines but there's rarely any locos sitting around Inverness.

 

[aar0]

I think it’s probably worth considering that someone or several people at GBRF, with plenty of knowledge and experience and on the money to reflect it, decided that a 73/66 combo was a better option than lower utilisation of a larger 73 fleet. We’re all assume when a 66 turns up it means somethings gone wrong, or it’s a bodge to get them through the day, when it could well have been the plan since day one, before they even started rebuilding the 73s!

 

[Speed43125]

Ah, okay. If it's only been occasional or for a period then it explains why I've never seen them. (Or heard them! )

Yeah they make quite a racket on the Inverness flows on the odd occasion they've run them, for a few weeks at some point last year they were pretty common, but the 66 apears to be the primary loco there again - may well have been a 66 availability issue as there was a pair of 37s on that flow at one point too. But this is getting seriously OT.

I understand Egyptian EMD Class 66s did get ETS fitted for passenger work, but again, seems unlikely to ever need to happen over here.

 

[TimboM]

I think it’s probably worth considering that someone or several people at GBRF, with plenty of knowledge and experience and on the money to reflect it, decided that a 73/66 combo was a better option than lower utilisation of a larger 73 fleet. We’re all assume when a 66 turns up it means somethings gone wrong, or it’s a bodge to get them through the day, when it could well have been the plan since day one, before they even started rebuilding the 73s!

The 73/9s were designed and built with AAR multi so they could work with 66s (and anything else with AAR). It wasn't an accident...!

 

[Essexman]

Regarding ladders in berths. I’m on the Lowlander to Edinburgh tonight. Removed the ladder to top berth by unclipping and sliding it out. All well until I grazed my leg on the clip which has sharp edges. Clearly ladder not designed to be taken out but it does get in the way a bit. I preferred design on the old coaches where ladder easily removed.

 

[williamn]

Regarding ladders in berths. I’m on the Lowlander to Edinburgh tonight. Removed the ladder to top berth by unclipping and sliding it out. All well until I grazed my leg on the clip which has sharp edges. Clearly ladder not designed to be taken out but it does get in the way a bit. I preferred design on the old coaches where ladder easily removed.

The clips fold down, out of harms way, just give them a shove.

 

[RochdalePioneers]

A pricing question if I may - do they employ cookie / browser-based "personal pricing" in the way some airlines do?

I ask because I am looking at a return Aberdeen - London trip a good few months into the future. Was offered a fantastic £225 return for a classic room. Accidentally dumped the tab.

Go back in and the price is now £220 one way. As it seems unlikely that the up journey had sold all berths at the previous price point and the one above that and the one above that in the minute or so it took me to go back in, I have to assume an algorithm is at play.

Happy to pay the going rate. But can't help but feel like their website is taking the proverbial. Won't be travelling at daft prices when it was not daft until I tried to book it. Like the old airline trick - "we just jacked the price up cos you're looking, so pay more now before we jack it again"

 

[najaB]

A pricing question if I may - do they employ cookie / browser-based "personal pricing" in the way some airlines do?

I ask because I am looking at a return Aberdeen - London trip a good few months into the future. Was offered a fantastic £225 return for a classic room. Accidentally dumped the tab.

Go back in and the price is now £220 one way. As it seems unlikely that the up journey had sold all berths at the previous price point and the one above that and the one above that in the minute or so it took me to go back in, I have to assume an algorithm is at play.

Happy to pay the going rate. But can't help but feel like their website is taking the proverbial. Won't be travelling at daft prices when it was not daft until I tried to book it. Like the old airline trick - "we just jacked the price up cos you're looking, so pay more now before we jack it again"

I can't speak to the precise operation of their website, but unlike the airlines there are only a finite number of price options available. They can't just set arbitrary prices at a whim.

 

[JonathanH]

Was offered a fantastic £225 return for a classic room. Accidentally dumped the tab.

It is not uncommon that if you click on a particular ticket and have it in your basket you effectively hold that ticket for a period even if it dumps - you then need to wait for the 'hold' to time out before you can try to book it again. Not actually foul play - more actually to prevent you losing the fare because someone books it before you complete the transaction.

Try again two hours from the time you dumped it.

There seem to be some good offers midweek in November - eg £100 single classic room from London to Aberdeen on Wednesday 10 November - check again and now £170 - but as I haven't booked it, it should be back later.

 

[alistairlees]

There are no return tickets. Try again 30 minutes after you originally tried.

 

[sirren]

A pricing question if I may - do they employ cookie / browser-based "personal pricing" in the way some airlines do?

I ask because I am looking at a return Aberdeen - London trip a good few months into the future. Was offered a fantastic £225 return for a classic room. Accidentally dumped the tab.

Go back in and the price is now £220 one way. As it seems unlikely that the up journey had sold all berths at the previous price point and the one above that and the one above that in the minute or so it took me to go back in, I have to assume an algorithm is at play.

Happy to pay the going rate. But can't help but feel like their website is taking the proverbial. Won't be travelling at daft prices when it was not daft until I tried to book it. Like the old airline trick - "we just jacked the price up cos you're looking, so pay more now before we jack it again"

I’ve just tried to replicate it for a few months ahead (2022) and the first dates I hit on were £225 return. I’ve had what you describe happen with other rail tickets when I’ve put the ticket in my basket and something has gone wrong. As if the system thinks the ticket is reserved, I’d suggest either wait half an hour - that seems to clear it, or use another browser. I recently booked a classic return to Inverness as two singles for £200, but in order to get a berth I was happy with I had to do it via two browsers open at the same time. Each browser seemed to be offering different berths as I scrolled through dates, none of which I’d put into the basket.

 

[alistairlees]

Using another browser is not going to make a fare reappear. It is going to take another fare out of the quota - as soon as you are past the initial results and looking at a specific type of accommodation (e.g. a seat). If you close that browser, and this was the last fare at that price, then you will need to wait 30 minutes until it's released back into the pool. Because of the lower number of seats / berths on the sleeper train (compared with a daytime train), changes in price as tickets get removed from / added to people's baskets are more noticeable.

 

[RochdalePioneers]

Thanks everyone. Booked this morning. Though I opted for LNER 1st on the way up to London instead, the £125 sleeper fare was there. And £100 back home on the Sunday night.

 

[Essexman]

No lounge car meals on Lowlander from Edinburgh tonight but there is room service and I received a text in plenty of time to make other arrangements if necessary.

I do wonder how many people have meals on the Lowlander with such a late start. I wonder if lounge car service could be removed on Lowlander as cost saving, or would people miss it.

 

[185143]

No lounge car meals on Lowlander from Edinburgh tonight but there is room service and I received a text in plenty of time to make other arrangements if necessary.

I do wonder how many people have meals on the Lowlander with such a late start. I wonder if lounge car service could be removed on Lowlander as cost saving, or would people miss it.

I suspect the meal service may not be missed by too many, with the caveat that I've never used a Lowlander lounge car, as long as things like Sandwiches are kept.

But plenty would miss a wee dram I'd expect!

 

[Bald Rick]

I do wonder how many people have meals on the Lowlander with such a late start. I wonder if lounge car service could be removed on Lowlander as cost saving, or would people miss it.

Both times I used it with the new stock all the tables were taken with people eating. (Northbound, once Glasgow, once Edinburgh, Weds / Sun).

 

[Essexman]

Excellent journeys to and from Edinburgh this week (Sunday out, Tuesday back). Thanks to the advice from williamn I was able to remove the ladder last night with no further grazing of my leg. Two good nights sleeps. Two full days in Edinburgh with only one night in a hotel is a real benefit of using the sleeper. I had berths 5 & 6 and even in the centre of coach there is a fair bit of noise when the train passes over points.

 

[alangla]

Ah, okay. If it's only been occasional or for a period then it explains why I've never seen them. (Or heard them! )

Keep your eyes & ears open today - 68005 on 4A13 apparently

 

[AberdeenBill]

Sitting at Aberdeen Station waiting to do the return leg of my trip to Euston. Everything went to plan Thursday, going straight through to Aberdeen and arriving early. Direct Aberdeen to Euston tonight as well (Tue to Fri is Cross Country to Edinburgh), although the lounge car is not open, which is slightly disappointing but not a disaster for a return leg on a Sunday night. When it works, it is definitely the best way to travel (although not necessarily in terms of value for money) and as others have commented it is probably only the bad journeys (which admittedly there has been a few recently) that get highlighted.

 

[trek]

Thought I'd chime in on my recent experience.

Northbound I did the Fort William portion which was pretty successful, although I had ended up in berth 10, which I hadn't realised on booking (or I'd have tried to get a different one). It turned out the bogies issue didn't really annoy me as I thought it would - but being next to the toilet wasn't great although it was only used a couple of times in the night and morning so didn't result in any disturbed sleep. The obscured window due to the vinyl over the outside is a terrible move though, and seeing it for myself made it clear how bad this was. Luckily I did the West Highland a couple more times on day trains so didn't miss out on the views, but was still annoyed and will definitely keep this in mind.

Southbound from Inverness was somewhat less successful - I decided to try the lounge car by sharing a table which resulted in some pleasant conversation, but they ran out of glasses which really didn't fit the vibe when the whisky cost me £10. I guess the positive of the plastic cup was I brought it back to my cabin with the ice to have another glass from my own supply. I only had a dessert - perfectly tasty and well presented but a bit stingy on portion size. Also noticed that this coach seemed especially rattly for some reason. It was also somewhat non sensical that I then couldn't pay my bill by American Express given they accept it to buy tickets.

I was in Berth 7, much better noise and window wise, but I found my in room plugs didn't work, and the phone charger I brought was USB C on both ends so the USB ports weren't an option (plus only one in the room seemed to work on trying to charge my headphones). I was luckily in a coach with a host and they did allow me to use their plug just down the corridor until I turned in, but it still meant arriving into London on only 30% charge. Luckily I was heading home in that direction so didn't need a charged phone. Having read here I also managed to remove the ladder from the top bunk which was a lot better, although really they should go back to folding it away properly.

Also I couldn't get the wifi working in either direction. Both trips arrived on time, although my dining companions mentioned they were delayed on the way up.

Other than those weird niggles was pretty happy, guess it depends what you pay and how that compares with hotels, but I slept much better than I expected so would do it again where I wanted a whole day out.

 

[6Z09]

Has anyone got a trip report to give us for Friday 01OCT21 southbound from Fort William??