Can a 14 year old British student be a fluent German speaker?

[102 fan]

I was talking to a friend of a friend today, who says his daughter, just about to go through GCSE's, can speak German fluently. Is that possible at that age?

 

[Cowley]

I was talking to a friend of a friend today, who says his daughter, just about to go through GCSE's, can speak German fluently. Is that possible at that age?

Lots of German children seem to be able to, so I’d say yes.

 

[jfollows]

When I was 14 or so I went on a French exchange to Paris, during which I spent 3 weeks with my host family. At the end of the period we went to the Louvre museum and I went to buy a guide book from the shop, but the lady behind the till was reluctant to sell it to me because it was in English.
I couldn't pass as French today in any way, but at that age I became briefly bilingual and I passed easily as a native French speaker at the time.
So I'm sure it's possible.
For me, the end result is that I can "get by" in French with little difficulty but a native speaker can spot my foreign accent immediately today.

 

[nlogax]

I was talking to a friend of a friend today, who says his daughter, just about to go through GCSE's, can speak German fluently. Is that possible at that age?

Absolutely, yes. Especially if surrounded by other good German speakers and decent education.

 

[D365]

I took GCSE German at 14 but that was after having learned/spoken German from an early age.

Absolutely, yes. Especially if surrounded by other good German speakers and decent education.

This is how I ended up bilingual, despite having grown up in East Anglia.

 

[hexagon789]

I was talking to a friend of a friend today, who says his daughter, just about to go through GCSE's, can speak German fluently. Is that possible at that age?

A girl joined my school in Second year (that's Y8 in English money). Her father was Scottish, mother French (from Bordeaux if memory serves).

Anyway, she spoke perfect French and went on to gain the top marks in school for French - I don't think anyone would have questioned her fluency in either tongue...

 

[ABB125]

It's definitely possible. However, I'd be willing to bet that in pretty much all cases it's because either one or both parents are from the relevant country, and as a result the child has grown up immersed in the language.
Unfortunately, it's far harder to simply learn a new language, especially when your first language is English, for three reasons: language education in this country is, generally, very poor; "everyone speaks English, so why bother learning a different language?" is a very common attitude; and there are very few resources to learn a foreign language because, unlike somewhere like Germany, all media etc is already in English. For German children, watching English-language films (for example) can be a good way to passively learn the language. There just isn't really anything similar here.

 

[bspahh]

In the last few years, it has become easier to understand other languages. There are internet radio stations, when you stream film and TV you can often get the sound track in a range of other languages. There are also tools like Duo Lingo and Easy Languages where you can get podcasts with native speakers using clear and simple language, but at a reasonable conversational pace. Their youtube channel also has subtitles.

To learn to talk in a foreign language, you need to practice and it helps to start young.

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

Fluent, maybe with an accent? People applying for citizenship in Germany have to pass level B1 written and verbal. Not sure how that compares to O/A level.

I knew a lad brought up outside the UK, his English mother ensured that he was top at school, but she taught him correct English RP pronunciation and vocabulary. When he went to a uni in the North of England he had to learn (1) a quite different accent, not 'RP', and (2) lot of common vocabulary that his mother had not used.

Apparently Dutch is one of the languages most like English, it is quite similar to German too, so the difference between English and German is not so great. Learning Chinese, Japanese, Arabic, maybe Welsh, is a bigger achievement than learning German, I think.

 

[GusB]

It's like any other skill, it takes practice and patience; most of all, an actual interest in and a desire to learn a language is necessary.

I learned French up to Standard Grade level and regret not taking it further. In my case I couldn't fit it around the other subjects I wanted to do for Highers. My skills would be very rusty if I visited France now, but I'd like to think that I would have retained the basics. I believe that kids start learning other languages much earlier these days; my niece started quite early on in primary school, for example.

It's entirely possible for kids to be fluent in more than one language without learning another at school, either by being exposed to indigenous languages from this country, or by having immigrant family members whose first language is not English.

Sadly, too many people think it's unnecessary to learn foreign languages because they expect to be able to speak English when (if) they go abroad. Not bothering to learn even basic phrases in the language of a country you're visiting is incredibly arrogant, in my opinion. Knowing bits of other languages can be incredibly useful, even if you don't intend to go abroad.

I intend to start brushing up on my French soon, and I'm considering getting to know some basic German soon. It has never been easier with the wide array of apps available, and there's plenty of foreign language media around too -'just have a look at the Walter Presents collection on All4 for starters.

 

[70014IronDuke]

Apparently Dutch is one of the languages most like English, it is quite similar to German too, so the difference between English and German is not so great. Learning Chinese, Japanese, Arabic, maybe Welsh, is a bigger achievement than learning German, I think.

English is a Germanic language, simple as. It's got a lot of French/Latin words (and others) but it is recognised as in the Germanic family - like Dutch and the Scandinavian languages.

That is not to say German is easy to learn to a high competence level without errors - it isn't. It's got a complicated grammar structure (all sorts of agreements of adjectives with the gender and case of nouns) that is difficult to master, even for native speakers - but you can make these mistakes and still be understood and even get praised for your efforts!

But to address the OP's question. I'm a little more sceptical than most folks who've answered so far. I think you should remember that the person is the daughter of a friend of a friend who no doubt loves his sugar plumb to bits. So he or she is not exactly objective - or at least not necessarily so.

I can well believe she speaks German to a decent level, but "fluently" - meaning she's as much at home in German as in English (assuming that's her native tongue)? That's a different matter - unless she's spent time living in Germany/Austria and/or is exceptionally talented, I doubt it.

BTW, people often describe others as speaking "perfect" this language or other. I always respond to this by saying that not even Shakespeare spoke "perfect" English. If you really listen to speech, and know your language intimately, you can always pick up errors and non-agreements. As an example, even in this group (which contains a lot of erudite users of English, in my estimation) look at how many "your"s you find when they really mean "you're" - or "less this or that" when the correct usage for the noun used is "fewer".

 

[yorksrob]

I was talking to a friend of a friend today, who says his daughter, just about to go through GCSE's, can speak German fluently. Is that possible at that age?

If they're used to speaking German, absolutely.

 

[Gloster]

Quite a few years ago the fifteen year-old sister of a friend was, to all intents and purposes, trilingual. However, this was in France, so that was her native language, but as it was right over close to the Rhine German, or the local Germanic dialect, was widely spoken. She also spoke English, despite only having visited a couple of times, once for about a month. Her English was excellent, if a bit formal at times as she used to listen to the World Service. But mostly it was good teaching and gentle encouragement from her parents, both French. She also had a working knowledge of Italian.

Her older sister (mid-twenties) had fluent French and German, and good English and Spanish. She had worked in both London and Valencia.

 

[yorksrob]

I did GCSE German. Lovely language, but I think that sixteen ways of saying "the" is possibly excessive

 

[ABB125]

I did GCSE German. Lovely language, but I think that sixteen ways of saying "the" is possibly excessive

Not at all - it's only barbaric and uncivilised languages such as English that consider a single way acceptable...

 

[Master Cutler]

I work for a company based in Baden-Baden and find it difficult to fully understand their spoken German. However when visiting Northern Germany I find it much easier to understand conversations.
So it must be the local dialects that cause the confusion, on which note, don't get me onto trying to understand the Austrian dialect.

 

[yorksrob]

Not at all - it's only barbaric and uncivilised languages such as English that consider a single way acceptable...

Indeed. Perhaps I'm unduly influenced by having to learn them all by rote:

"Der die das die......"

 

[Acfb]

I find German quite straightforward and structured to be honest. I didn't do it in S1 and S2 at school but it was quite possible for myself to learn it in two years in S3 and S4 to get an A at intermediate 2 with a bit of help from my mother etc and took it through to Advanced higher level 16 years ago which I got a B at.

I've found my knowledge of German quite easy to maintain by following German current affairs/politics closely over the years and reading the German version of the Spiegel website. Also I've been to Frankfurt a lot (plus Munich, Austria a few times, Zurich once) and flown Lufthansa/SWISS many times.

French in contrast I've forgotten large amounts of since school as I haven't had any use for it and haven't been to France at all excluding one time I connected through CDG in 2017.

My current project is learning Japanese, which I've been trying to do for 10 years. I can recognise a large amount of Kanji characters but still lack confidence in speaking it.

 

[Trackman]

I did GCSE German. Lovely language, but I think that sixteen ways of saying "the" is possibly excessive

I didn't do German at school but French, but had friends and relatives who spoke it and lived in Germany.
I learned some grammar so I wouldn't be stuck .. like haben sie, w(v)as vollen sie etc..
I became obsessed with nouns too, I remember a lot of them to this day.
I remember my sisters boyfriend (now husband) telling someone they were hot in Germany - ich bein heiß (a double S), the German lady said 'No!! that's the wrong way' - it's a 'false friend' basically it means something sexual, like 'hot'.- baffling eh?

I was talking to a friend of a friend today, who says his daughter, just about to go through GCSE's, can speak German fluently. Is that possible at that age?

Best time to learn a language is when you are young and your brain is a like a 'sponge' so to speak.
The other way is full immersion, like put you in a country where no-one speaks English.

 

[Gloster]

I remember my sisters boyfriend (now husband) telling someone they were hot in Germany - ich bein heiß (a double S), the German lady said 'No!! that's the wrong way' - it's a 'false friend' basically it means something sexual, like 'hot'.- baffling eh?

Another one is geil, which can mean cool, wicked, brilliant, etc., but can also mean randy or horny.

 

[Trackman]

Another one is geil, which can mean cool, wicked, brilliant, etc., but can also mean randy or horny.

I think 'hot' is the same thing .. like randy .. I couldn't think of the sexual word before to explain it, so thanks.

 

[jupiter]

When I worked for Siemens in Munich I had friends whose young kids were completely bilingual at 5 or 6 years old. By 14, easy.

 

[ABB125]

I remember my sisters boyfriend (now husband) telling someone they were hot in Germany - ich bein heiß (a double S), the German lady said 'No!! that's the wrong way' - it's a 'false friend' basically it means something sexual, like 'hot'.- baffling eh?

I believe the correct way is "mir ist heiß", meaning something like "it is hot to me". "Mir" is the dative form of (I think) "ich".
For anyone who doesn't understand cases, there are three main cases: nominative (the subject), accusative (the object) and dative (I can't remember officially what this is, but it's like the example above of "to me" instead of "I" (nominative) or "me" (accusative). There's also the genetive, which is not quite as common but still fairly well used (this is best described as the possessive, ie: "[something] of mine"). Then there are other cases that I don't know anything about because they aren't covered at GCSE!
The above is caveated that I may be misremembering as it's over 4 years since I last did anything German academically

When I worked for Siemens in Munich I had friends whose young kids were completely bilingual at 5 or 6 years old. By 14, easy.

I suppose in Munich they have to learn to speak Bavarian as well as German!

(My understanding is that the Bavarian dialect is rather different to "normal" German.)

 

[eMeS]

I was brought up in the Manchester area, and before I started at Infants School my close relatives learnt "my language". Only when I started at school was I disciplined by the teachers to learn and speak local (Manchester?) English. A few years later, I was introduced to French at school, and I really struggled. (Latin was easy because it was pronounced as though it was English.) I think my mother also struggled to help me because she couldn't understand the concept of different pronunciations for the same letters used in different places. When I was 20 I was posted to Germany (National Service) and we had German lessons on our station, but German shop-keepers recognised us when we entered their shops, and welcomed us in English!

(Around 15 years ago I was able to conduct a hotel booking in German using the phone - no visual contact whatsoever, so I must have learnt some German...)

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I believe the correct way is "mir ist heiß", meaning something like "it is hot to me". "Mir" is the dative form of (I think) "ich".
For anyone who doesn't understand cases, there are three main cases: nominative (the subject), accusative (the object) and dative (I can't remember officially what this is, but it's like the example above of "to me" instead of "I" (nominative) or "me" (accusative). There's also the genetive, which is not quite as common but still fairly well used (this is best described as the possessive, ie: "[something] of mine"). Then there are other cases that I don't know anything about because they aren't covered at GCSE!
The above is caveated that I may be misremembering as it's over 4 years since I last did anything German academically


I suppose in Munich they have to learn to speak Bavarian as well as German!

(My understanding is that the Bavarian dialect is rather different to "normal" German.)

I remember a rhyme for learning which case to use with different prepositions:

Aus, bei, mit, nach, seit, von, zu
All take dative. Gegenuber, too!

However I'll see your four years and raise you twenty. Anything that didn't have a rhyming mnemonic has long been forgotten!

 

[birchesgreen]

I was talking to a friend of a friend today, who says his daughter, just about to go through GCSE's, can speak German fluently. Is that possible at that age?

Some more information would be useful, are they in a bilingual household, in that case it would be expected.

If not if someone is keen enough then its perfectly possible. Of course being able to speak a language "fluently" for an exam is not the same as being natively fluent.

 

[bavvo]

I have a Macedonian friend who's nephew and niece (Macedonian and living in Macedonia) both learned fluent English by the age of 5 almost entirely from internet videos on sites like youtube. At a very early age it is very easy for a young brain to absorb additional languages.

 

[Magdalia]

Many migrant children arrive in new countries without knowing a word of the new language, and become fluent very quickly. Often they end up providing a translation service for their parents, who find the new language much more of a struggle.

 

[jfollows]

I remember a rhyme for learning which case to use with different prepositions:

Aus, bei, mit, nach, seit, von, zu
All take dative. Gegenuber, too!

However I'll see your four years and raise you twenty. Anything that didn't have a rhyming mnemonic has long been forgotten!

I can't stand these sorts of rhymes etc. but that's OK, what works for one person doesn't work for someone else. I simply remember "aus, bei, mit, nach, seit, von, zu and gegenueber" as that, and that's from my German O-level in, err, 1977.
Languages are interesting, I even went on a week's Icelandic course as the first week of a two week holiday there in 2013, I can't say I remember much from it though.

 

[Lost property]

I took GCSE German at 14 but that was after having learned/spoken German from an early age.


This is how I ended up bilingual, despite having grown up in East Anglia.

For the OP, as you will have gathered, the answer is yes.

However, when RAFG / BAOR were operational, many families kids were also fluent in German due to being based there.

I'm curious please, given you mention East Anglia, if you were also a beneficiary of the Gov't paid holiday (strangely, the RAF didn't quite see this as being the case, so most of us came to a compromise agreement as it were) in Germany or had family that did.

German language classes were over subscribed during my time there, and then you had to get time off to attend if you were lucky, but getting out and about you soon learned to try and speak German and the Germans were more than happy to help you when you got it wrong ..