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Can a Train Driver open doors when it’s too hot on the train if aircon doesn’t work.

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Voxin

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Just as the title says, it would be good if some fellow train drivers could answer the question. Basically I was wondering due to the recent weather we had.

If a train was stopped half way through its journey on a hot day with people complaining, and it was unknown how long it would take for it to resume again, and the aircon was broken. Is the train driver allowed to open the doors on the train to get fresh air in if so how would they monitor the doors?
 
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185143

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Some units have door barriers onboard, so I suspect if it was to be a lengthy delay, they'd be used.

It's tricky because eventually if you do nothing, you risk passengers making the decision for you and using the egress handles.

I'm not traincrew, by the way. I suspect the answer will differ depending on wether the unit is supposed to have functioning AC, how many hopper windows are available, wether the train is full+standing, wether passengers can easily be moved into any carriages with functioning AC ect ect.
 

Sm5

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If the aircon doesnt work, wouldnt they just cancel the train ?
 

Hadders

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If the aircon doesnt work, wouldnt they just cancel the train ?
Not necessarily. Some trains have hopper windows that can be opened by the guard in the event of an air-con failure. Fine when on the move but no good if the train comes to a stand for any length of time.
 

Cherry_Picker

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That’s a please explain I wouldn’t want to fill in.

Why did you lose twenty minutes en route?

‘Well it was a bit hot so I thought I’d sit in the platform with the doors open…’
 

GordonT

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Not advocating this but I can remember when it was hot weather in Paris it was not unusual for "stainless steel" suburban units to be operating busy passenger services with most if not every door fully open whether the train was stopped or not!
 

E16 Cyclist

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One unintended consequence of having the door open if on a loco hauled set is noise and then not hearing the vigilance which embarrassingly happened to me on some ecs
 

GadgetMan

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It can be done once control/signaller etc agree. Some sort of barrier needs to be in place, for us its red & white tape in the emergency cupboard, run a couple of lengths across in front of doors horizontally, find someone responsible like off duty rail staff or police and they are to act as a door marshal to ensure no one leaves through that door, then open door (non track side) using emergency egress (using local door control will mean you cant then repeat the above at other doors in other carriages). How many doors you open in this way will vary depending on need/number of responsible volunteers etc.
 

PennineSuperb

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It can be done once control/signaller etc agree. Some sort of barrier needs to be in place, for us its red & white tape in the emergency cupboard, run a couple of lengths across in front of doors horizontally, find someone responsible like off duty rail staff or police and they are to act as a door marshal to ensure no one leaves through that door, then open door (non track side) using emergency egress (using local door control will mean you cant then repeat the above at other doors in other carriages). How many doors you open in this way will vary depending on need/number of responsible volunteers etc.
As @GadgetMan has said this is the same at the company I work for.
It’s better to try and arrange things whilst they are in your control, rather than letting it get out of hand and having a full scale uncontrolled evacuation with the risk of someone being struck by a train.
 

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Horizon22

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Just as the title says, it would be good if some fellow train drivers could answer the question. Basically I was wondering due to the recent weather we had.

If a train was stopped half way through its journey on a hot day with people complaining, and it was unknown how long it would take for it to resume again, and the aircon was broken. Is the train driver allowed to open the doors on the train to get fresh air in if so how would they monitor the doors?

Yes they are. Normally they need a "competent person" to manage the doors with a barrier in place to ensure people don't jump down. Bare in mind a "competent person" might not necessarily be rail staff, although ideally it is.

This would be very much a last resort scenario though.
 

Andy Pacer

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Just as the title says, it would be good if some fellow train drivers could answer the question. Basically I was wondering due to the recent weather we had.

If a train was stopped half way through its journey on a hot day with people complaining, and it was unknown how long it would take for it to resume again, and the aircon was broken. Is the train driver allowed to open the doors on the train to get fresh air in if so how would they monitor the doors?
Out of interest, I assume from the first couple of lines of the post ("fellow" train drivers) that you're a driver yourself, so what is your own protocol on it?
 

Sonik

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Not advocating this but I can remember when it was hot weather in Paris it was not unusual for "stainless steel" suburban units to be operating busy passenger services with most if not every door fully open whether the train was stopped or not!
Plenty of trains in third world countries don't even have doors, just an opening...
 

Mikey C

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Plenty of trains in third world countries don't even have doors, just an opening...
I remember 20 years ago riding on a local train going along the Cote D'Azur with all the doors open. It was certainly breezy!
 

danofthewibble

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Definitely rode a train between Wrexham and Chester once where due to a problem with one of the sets of doors, they were kept open between the two stations. It was loud, and the guard stayed in the vestibule until we got to Chester. Breezy.
 

matchmaker

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BR Mk1s were good on hot days if you were the guard as one of the guards doors opened inwards for a nice breeze. Only on a heritage line, though!
 

Runningaround

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If it's moving you could cool the train down with moving air, but aren't we told that at the highest temperatures to keep windows and curtains closed too keep the heat out? If it was in the evening you might be letting cooler air in, if it's mid day you might be letting in air that's making the train even hotter.
 

Dai Corner

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If it's moving you could cool the train down with moving air, but aren't we told that at the highest temperatures to keep windows and curtains closed too keep the heat out? If it was in the evening you might be letting cooler air in, if it's mid day you might be letting in air that's making the train even hotter.
Trains don't have curtains these days. If it's sunny the sunlight will heat the interior and the only way for it to leave is through open windows or air conditioning (if fitted).
 

Annetts key

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Some trains have blinds that passengers can pull down.

About moving air and cooling… An air flow will remove heat from objects and items that are hotter than the temperature of the air. So human skin will be cooled by air if the air is at a lower temperature or water is evaporating from your skin.

The advice to close windows, doors, curtains etc. needs to be considered with the actual circumstances. If you have a room or other enclosed space, on a warm or hot day, the idea is to keep the radiated heat from the sun out. And/or if the room air temperature is currently cooler than the outside air temperature, try to reduce the rate of rise of the room air temperature by closing windows, doors, curtains etc.

On a train, it‘s a lot harder. Firstly, a carriage is more like a greenhouse/glasshouse due to the number of windows. And secondly, if the carriage is occupied by a lot of people, each person emits about 100W of heat. That does not sound much, but if the air is already warm and there are say fifty people inside a carriage, that’s 5kW of heat output adding to the air temperature without even considering the heat from outside…
 

Bletchleyite

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It is notable that in genuinely hot places (India and the likes) people don't care for looking at scenery and tend to shut all blinds/curtains on trains and buses all the time.
 

Pseudonym

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A lot of trains in India simply don't have doors.
Whilst I was never brave (or foolhardy) enough to hang outside like the locals, standing near the large "doorway" was a must
 
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