Can I excess a single ticket for change of origin before travel?

[87 027]

I'm travelling to Gatwick Airport on Monday morning and have already obtained my ticket through the corporate travel agent used by my employer. The thing is, I would now like to start my journey from one stop further away up the line. I've checked Avantix and the fare is the same, but can my ticket be excessed at that station's ticket office so I can get through the gateline? (The ticket is an SDS so with no restrictions.)

 

[yorkie]

Yes, a zero excess can (and should) be done.

But will the ticket office staff know how to issue excesses and be willing to do it? Not necessarily.

 

[Clip]

Yes, a zero excess can (and should) be done.

But will the ticket office staff know how to issue excesses and be willing to do it? Not necessarily.

Your quite arsey about this arent you. Id get a cup of chamomile tea and calm yourself really


All my ticket staff will excess it up as i imagine every other ticket clerk would do.

 

[RJ]

It's a very simple process indeed, the above change can be set up in as little as 10 seconds. Type in TBD, tab, 1072, tab, SDS, hit Excess, leave it as overdistance and input amout already paid and it's good to go.

 

[Mojo]

All my ticket staff will excess it up as i imagine every other ticket clerk would do.

I feel it was a perfectly fair response as a warning to the OP that it can sometimes be quite challenging to have excesses issued as training at some Tocs is quite poor and I know at least one person who works in a ticket office and has never been trained on issuing excesses.

Some also say that you cannot excess single legs and have to excess the whole portion. For the past six weeks I have been dealing with a complaint made to FGW regarding a member of their staff who told me that only the whole ticket could be excessed and not just a single leg. It was only resolved on Thursday after I insisted my initial complaint was passed onto a manager in their customer relations department (the initial respondent claimed the ticket office were correct) who is arranging compensation for me.

 

[Greenback]

A lot of people have posted about their difficutlies in excessing tickets. It's a bit unfair ot refer to Yorkie as 'arsey', when he is merely pointing out what so many people, as well as himself, have discovered on their day to travels.

 

[Lampshade]

What he said ^^^

I had a problem at St Pancras when the ticket clerk said I could only get a Staines - Manchester ticket excessed from Euston. In theory a ticket can, and should be excessed from anywhere as needed, however in practice it is not always the case.

 

[RJ]

I feel it was a perfectly fair response as a warning to the OP that it can sometimes be quite challenging to have excesses issued as training at some Tocs is quite poor and I know at least one person who works in a ticket office and has never been trained on issuing excesses.

Some also say that you cannot excess single legs and have to excess the whole portion. For the past six weeks I have been dealing with a complaint made to FGW regarding a member of their staff who told me that only the whole ticket could be excessed and not just a single leg. It was only resolved on Thursday after I insisted my initial complaint was passed onto a manager in their customer relations department (the initial respondent claimed the ticket office were correct) who is arranging compensation for me.

That's nonsense! You can do that. If you wish to excess in one direction only, you set up the new ticket, click excess, select outward or return (as opposed to both) and issue it. It costs roughly 50% of the whole excess price.

 

[MikeWh]

That's nonsense! You can do that. If you wish to excess in one direction only, you set up the new ticket, click excess, select outward or return (as opposed to both) and issue it. It costs roughly 50% of the whole excess price.

Yes, we all know you can do it. That's not the point. The point is that some staff don't know how to do it. Just because you've been trained properly doesn't mean that every other person who could conceivably be called upon to issue an excess has also been trained properly.

 

[Greenback]

Indeed. I have mentioned before that I had no training at all on excessing as part of the formal retialing course when I started in the booking office with FGW. When 'on the job' as it were, and I needed assistance on excessing, the replies I got from more experienced colleagues were extremely variable!

 

[RJ]

Yes, we all know you can do it. That's not the point. The point is that some staff don't know how to do it. Just because you've been trained properly doesn't mean that every other person who could conceivably be called upon to issue an excess has also been trained properly.

Sometimes it's down to the individual, regardless of how excellent the teacher/training facilities were. Some people are afraid to say "I don't know" and will either refuse to sell you a ticket or sell you the wrong ticket. I don't think there's any shame in asking the customer to wait until you can make contact with someone who can advise if they've requested something you don't know how to issue. I found it extremely patronising when the bloke at Elephant and Castle told me that I wasn't allowed purchase a St Mary Cray - Swanley ticket unless I showed him that I had some means to reach St. Mary Cray. I can't imagine that he learnt to treat customers like this from training.

 

[fgwoll1e]

No. On Star the only options for Excess Fares are:

Change of Route - Change of destination - Peak - Superior Class

Change of Origin is NOT an option.

 

[Lampshade]

Surely in that case, if a passenger is travelling from B to C instead of A to C you just issue a zero fare excess from A to B? :?

 

[mumrar]

Surely in that case, if a passenger is travelling from B to C instead of A to C you just issue a zero fare excess from A to B? :?

The excess would be for A-C, although it adds A-B on to the ticket already held.

For example, if someone holds a Cheltenham Spa-New Street CDS and wants to start their journey from Gloucester, then an excess supplement is issued displaying Gloucester-New Street CDS.

The fare halving mentioned cannot be applied to all excesses, a change of ticket type (there's more but I've just woken up)

 

[RJ]

No. On Star the only options for Excess Fares are:

Change of Route - Change of destination - Peak - Superior Class

Change of Origin is NOT an option.

Over here we have Change of Route, Overdistance, Change of ticket type and Std to 1st. Same thing different names.


--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Surely in that case, if a passenger is travelling from B to C instead of A to C you just issue a zero fare excess from A to B? :?

The excess ticket must be set up as A - C although the charge will be correct for A - B. The clerk has to input the amount already paid, the machine then calculates the difference between that and what the customer wishes to change to.

In certain circumstances an excess is not appropriate - the ticket has to be non-issued then re-issued.

 

[87 027]

Thanks to everyone for the advice. Unfortunately the ticket office couldn't do it, I suspect because they didn't know how to rather than through any unwillingness. Had to buy a paper ticket for the extra stop to get through the gateline - have a plane to catch so don't have the luxury of time this morning. Only the price of a cup of coffee though so I don't intend to pursue it any further.

 

[sheff1]

All my ticket staff will excess it up as i imagine every other ticket clerk would do.

Looks like your imagination was running away with you

I am not surprised the OP failed to get what they were entitled to. In my experience, training in Excess Fares seems sadly lacking nowadays ..... and it is the customer who is losing out.

 

[Deerfold]

Thanks to everyone for the advice. Unfortunately the ticket office couldn't do it, I suspect because they didn't know how to rather than through any unwillingness. Had to buy a paper ticket for the extra stop to get through the gateline - have a plane to catch so don't have the luxury of time this morning. Only the price of a cup of coffee though so I don't intend to pursue it any further.

And poor training results in another boost to the profits of a TOC...

 

[fgwoll1e]

Origin cannot be changed. To the staff on here blaming training for not being able to do it - have a read of The Manual.

Only way I can think of to change origin will just be put in for refund and issue correct ticket.

 

[RJ]

And poor training results in another boost to the profits of a TOC...

It's not always a case of training being poor. Some people can't handle learning too much and are too conceited to consult a friend or The Manual. It's the same principle at school. A class of 30 all have the same teacher. Some will get A grades, others will get Us. It very much depends on the individual.

 

[Mojo]

Origin cannot be changed. To the staff on here blaming training for not being able to do it - have a read of The Manual.

Only way I can think of to change origin will just be put in for refund and issue correct ticket.

Unfortunately The Manual is vague and hard to read on Excesses (like the fact that there is NO information in the public domain from an official source about them), but I cannot find anything that prohibits it.

Also, it obviously CAN be done, otherwise how was my original ticket excessed (albeit wrongly), and why after taking my complaint to a more senior level did they agree that the ticket office staff member was wrong, the ticket office supervisor was wrong and the original person who dealt with my complaint was also wrong?

 

[yorkie]

of course it can be done but this thread perfectly highlights the problems getting them!

i'm almost surprised when I hear of a correct excess being issued!

 

[RJ]

Origin cannot be changed. To the staff on here blaming training for not being able to do it - have a read of The Manual.

Only way I can think of to change origin will just be put in for refund and issue correct ticket.

Incorrect, a non-issue/re-issue is not required in this case. The Overdistance excess can be used for either direction so long as it's on the same line of route as the original ticket.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Origin cannot be changed. . . . . have a read of The Manual.

Could you please clarify your interpretation of this point?

(I'm assuming that where you've said "cannot be changed" you are referring simply to the Manual's rules, and not to some limitation of your machine).

Thanks

 

[Username]

Certainly I know with the Avantix that the excess options are "change of ticket type", "change of route", "overdistance" and "std to 1st".

The procedure for excessing for overdistance on an Avantix is simple enough.
The guard sets up the new ticket - selects 'excess' - selects 'overdistance' - selects 'out', 'return' or 'both' and then enters the value of the original fare. That's it. The Avantix never wants to know what the original ticket actually was in terms of origin and destination. And I honestly can't see what difference it makes if the extra distance is at the beginning or at the end of the journey so long as the fare difference (if any) is paid.

Odd that the STAR system is restricted to 'change of destination'. Unless of course there are restrictions within the manual which are mirrored in the STAR operating system.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

The Manual does say overdistance is travelling beyond the destination of the ticket, but given that it could be for the return portion of a return ticket also (where the origin would be changed), it follows that the origin should be able to be changed. Before the on-train manual was merged with the NFM information on the FRPP, I'm sure it was worded to allow it, but I guess according to the strict interpretation, the passenger is once again penalised and the clerk labelled a 'jobsworth' because of a sloppy YTS guy in ATOCs website department who just doesn't care that it's poorly worded in many places, afterall, when does he actually use it?

Common sense says it should be allowed.

 

[b0b]

Although it follows the same principle as shorter distance excessing, it really doesn't seem to be the sort of thing the TOC's would go for in a big way so I'm tempted to think there must be something tucked away in the big book of secrets to forbid it. But what?

This has been discussed before and there appears to be nothing that forbids it other than most people want a return journey.

 

[Username]

This has been discussed before and there appears to be nothing that forbids it other than most people want a return journey.

Thanks for that b0b

 

[fgwoll1e]

I apologise Star does say Overdistance - but it only allows change of destination.

Which when you actually read the Manual is all it shows, but ya know, point me to the appropriate section that says I am wrong

As the excess fares section in The Manual only covers:

"Travel at a time or day for which tickets are not valid"
"Change of Route"
"Transfer to First Class accommodation"
"Over-riding (travelling beyond the destination on the ticket)"
"Deviation from the route on the ticket - to a new destination station"

 

[Username]

I apologise Star does say Overdistance - but it only allows change of destination.

Which when you actually read the Manual is all it shows, but ya know, point me to the appropriate section that says I am wrong

As the excess fares section in The Manual only covers:

"Travel at a time or day for which tickets are not valid"
"Change of Route"
"Transfer to First Class accommodation"
"Over-riding (travelling beyond the destination on the ticket)"
"Deviation from the route on the ticket - to a new destination station"

I doubt anybody is really arguing about what the manual shows. It just seems odd that the system seems to be geared up for adding a little bit extra to the end of your journey, but not a little bit to the start. It's bizarre, that's all.

They make it easy to change routes, change class, change ticket type and travel beyond the original destination yet make it difficult to change the origin and start early. And it's not the passenger necessarily that they are making things difficult for, it's the ticket office staff.

Under the current system if a passenger already has a ticket but walks into a ticket office asking to pay the extra to start his journey sooner it appears the options are to:
(a) buy a separate ticket to cover the extra distance, or
(b) have their original ticket refunded and a whole new one issued.

In the case of option (a) it seems unfair on the passenger if the fares would have been the same in the first instance. Also there are occasions when a separate ticket is inappropriate: for example, the passengers original origin station is not a booked stop for the service they wish to travel on, thereby failing the multiple ticketing requirements.

In the case of option (b) it's just extra work for the ticket office staff, especially in the instance where any excess would be zero. I'm sure there's extra paperwork involved when processing refunds, no?

So it just seems that something which should be easy (and it is easy, rightly or wrongly, on the Avantix) is made complicated for staff in ticket offices. And for what reason? After all, the manual doesn't seem to expressly or explicitly forbid it - it just doesn't seem to have been thought of or included as an option.

Perhaps the ease by which it can be done using the Avantix is a simply a lapse in the programming. Or perhaps it's because the Avantix is for use on trains and extra latitude is necessary since the conductor cannot refund any ticket he himself has not sold and a separate ticket may be out of the question due to split ticketing restrictions, thereby saving awkward situations with a passenger who has already boarded.

How much simpler would it be for all involved if the system wasn't restricted to 'change of destination'?

Just my ha'pence worth.
(it used to be tuppence but there's a recession on)