Can you break your journey changing at Eastbourne (instead of Hampden Park)?

[freddie1729]

Sorry if this has been asked before. If I have a ticket from Rye to Brighton, can I break my journey at Eastbourne?

I can see an easement, but does that allow me to leave the station?

Customers travelling from or via Pevensey & Westham to Polegate and beyond may double back between Hampden Park and Eastbourne. This easement applies in both directions.

 

[Watershed]

Generally speaking, the only time where break of journey is prohibited is if if you are taking a route which is solely permitted by virtue of using a direct train - as by breaking your journey, you're then obviously no longer taking a direct train.

For example, back when Southeastern ran a circular St Pancras-St Pancras via Ashford, Ramsgate and Faversham service, you could buy a ticket from Ebbsfleet to Gravesend and use it the 'long way around', but only if you took a direct train and didn't break your journey en-route.

In this case, the easement simply extends the range of permitted routes, and you aren't relying on the direct trains rule. Therefore it is perfectly fine to break your journey at Eastbourne.

 

[yorkie]

From a routeing point of view, that easement is surplus to requirements and has no effect; Eastbourne and Hampden Park are both members of Eastbourne Group and therefore doubling back within the group is permitted, for interchange purposes.

There is perhaps an argument that breaking your journey goes beyond "interchange purposes" and therefore may not be permitted; a counter-argument could be that the easement therefore allows break of journey which may otherwise be a grey area.

In practise, you are not likely to encounter any issues breaking your journey at Eastbourne.

 

[paul1609]

I break my journey at Eastbourne on Rye to Portsmouth tickets all the time with no bother. I'd recomend getting proper tickets rather than trying to faff around with e tickets. Just show it the bloke on the barriers and say you want to get something to eat etc.

 

[Paul Kelly]

Generally speaking, the only time where break of journey is prohibited is if if you are taking a route which is solely permitted by virtue of using a direct train - as by breaking your journey, you're then obviously no longer taking a direct train.

I don't buy this argument; break of journey restrictions are separate from permitted route validity. The train is still a direct train between origin and destination and thus a permitted route, even if you're not on for the whole journey.

 

[Haywain]

I don't buy this argument; break of journey restrictions are separate from permitted route validity. The train is still a direct train between origin and destination and thus a permitted route, even if you're not on for the whole journey.

There has been a lengthy discussion on this in the not too distant past. @Watershed reflects the conclusions reached.

 

[Watershed]

I don't buy this argument; break of journey restrictions are separate from permitted route validity. The train is still a direct train between origin and destination and thus a permitted route, even if you're not on for the whole journey.

Whilst I would very much like this to be the case, in practice I think you are likely to encounter difficulties breaking your journey (whether at a station barrier line or on the second train) somewhere which is only a permitted route by virtue of being on the route of a direct train.

 

[Paul Kelly]

in practice I think you are likely to encounter difficulties breaking your journey (whether at a station barrier line or on the second train) somewhere which is only a permitted route by virtue of being on the route of a direct train.

I wholeheartedly agree but in my opinion according to the NRCoT it is valid. Is there a link to the recent discussion? I would like to apprise myself of the arguments made and check whether there are any new ones that would lead to me changing my view...

 

[jfollows]

Generally speaking, the only time where break of journey is prohibited is if if you are taking a route which is solely permitted by virtue of using a direct train - as by breaking your journey, you're then obviously no longer taking a direct train.

For example, back when Southeastern ran a circular St Pancras-St Pancras via Ashford, Ramsgate and Faversham service, you could buy a ticket from Ebbsfleet to Gravesend and use it the 'long way around', but only if you took a direct train and didn't break your journey en-route.

In this case, the easement simply extends the range of permitted routes, and you aren't relying on the direct trains rule. Therefore it is perfectly fine to break your journey at Eastbourne.

I agree; I would be happy using a Crewe-Birmingham ticket on the 07:34 Crewe to Birmingham via Shrewsbury service (1I06 https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:P21178/2022-03-29/detailed#allox_id=0) but I wouldn't expect to be able to break my journey at Shrewsbury. If I did, since this is the only service of the day using this route, would I need to wait until the following day's Crewe-Birmingham via Shrewsbury service? I wouldn't risk the break of journey!
NB valid routes using maps TV+BJ which do not include Shrewsbury.

 

[Haywain]

Is there a link to the recent discussion?

This was it: Link.

 

[miklcct]

A related question here:

If I have already travelled to Eastbourne with a return ticket with destination Eastbourne using the outward portion, am I allowed to start my return journey at Hampden Park changing at Eastbourne onto a fast train using the return portion only?

 

[yorkie]

You cannot 'double call' at the origin of the ticket.

The ticket starts at Eastbourne; you can start 'short' but I don't see how you can justify travelling into Eastbourne on a ticket to Eastbourne.

A journey planner would not be able to sell/validate an Eastbourne to (say) Bournemouth ticket for an itinerary starting at Hampden Park, changing at Eastbourne.

 

[paul1609]

You cannot 'double call' at the origin of the ticket.

The ticket starts at Eastbourne; you can start 'short' but I don't see how you can justify travelling into Eastbourne on a ticket to Eastbourne.

A journey planner would not be able to sell/validate an Eastbourne to (say) Bournemouth ticket for an itinerary starting at Hampden Park, changing at Eastbourne.

Technically I'm sure your right but in practise no one is going to question it. There's no barriers at Hampden Park the step free access to the down platform is just a path from the level crossing.

 

[miklcct]

You cannot 'double call' at the origin of the ticket.

The ticket starts at Eastbourne; you can start 'short' but I don't see how you can justify travelling into Eastbourne on a ticket to Eastbourne.

A journey planner would not be able to sell/validate an Eastbourne to (say) Bournemouth ticket for an itinerary starting at Hampden Park, changing at Eastbourne.

Can the same be done if the ticketed destination is Hampden Park? Can I travel on a fast and double back to Hampden Park on the outward portion, and do the reverse when returning? What if the return is a double-call at Hampden Park (i.e. finding out at Eastbourne that the next train to Brighton is the same train)?

 

[yorkie]

Can the same be done if the ticketed destination is Hampden Park? Can I travel on a fast and double back to Hampden Park on the outward portion, and do the reverse when returning? What if the return is a double-call at Hampden Park (i.e. finding out at Eastbourne that the next train to Brighton is the same train)?

You cannot double call at the origin or destination printed on your ticket.

Doubling back between these stations is permitted, either on a through train, or due to the Group Stations rule, where applicable to the ticket held, as detailed in the Routeing Guide.

If you can obtain an itinerary for what you want to do, that means the booking engine deems it valid (travelling in accordance with an itinerary is always valid).

If you cannot obtain an itinerary that means the booking engine does not deem it to be valid; booking engines are usually (though not always) right.

 

[miklcct]

You cannot double call at the origin or destination printed on your ticket.

Doubling back between these stations is permitted, either on a through train, or due to the Group Stations rule, where applicable to the ticket held, as detailed in the Routeing Guide.

If you can obtain an itinerary for what you want to do, that means the booking engine deems it valid (travelling in accordance with an itinerary is always valid).

If you cannot obtain an itinerary that means the booking engine does not deem it to be valid; booking engines are usually (though not always) right.

National Rail Enquiries tells me multiple tickets are required for Hampden Park to Brighton on an itinerary departing 15:55 where the train only makes a single call on the way to Eastbourne but not afterwards.

 

[paul1609]

National Rail Enquiries tells me multiple tickets are required for Hampden Park to Brighton on an itinerary departing 15:55 where the train only makes a single call on the way to Eastbourne but not afterwards.

Fares for coastway stations are zonal even though the tickets are themselves point to point I believe Pevensey and Westham is in the same price zone as Eastbourne / Hampden Park- although I haven't checked every possible combination.
Tickets to Pevensey and Westham from Brighton will be available for break of journey in either direction at Hampden Park on either leg unless break of journey is prohibited by the ticket.