Cancelled due to too many passengers

[IanXC]

Yeah, probably a bit of a reach - at least for the public-facing systems by the time it gets down to the Gatwick Cancellations.

RTT of course takes the delay code from the attribution (I think), so it is “correct” in RTT as that is how the alteration has been coded internally.

I believe RTT takes the first and only the first attribution, should it happen to be amended later on.

 

[skyhigh]

It happens in China though

So is this an area where you're actually saying the UK is better than China........?

 

[miklcct]

So is this an area where you're actually saying the UK is better than China........?

If it means the high speed trains in the UK can still run safely even when full of standing passengers, then yes. But the UK does not have 350 km/h trains for direct comparison here. The closest comparison is the HS1 at 300 km/h.

Has the HS1 ever had so many standing passengers that the train can't run?

 

[43096]

If it means the high speed trains in the UK can still run safely even when full of standing passengers, then yes. But the UK does not have 350 km/h trains for direct comparison here. The closest comparison is the HS1 at 300 km/h.

Has the HS1 ever had so many standing passengers that the train can't run?

The only HS1 services that run at 300km/h are Eurostars which are reservation only, so standing passengers shouldn’t be a problem.

 

[greyman42]

Same as travelling ‘pass’.

I'm none the wiser. Can someone put it in plain English without rail jargon?

 

[zwk500]

I'm none the wiser. Can someone put it in plain English without rail jargon?

A driver travelling as a passenger to their next booked service (hence 'pass'). They can sit in the passenger saloon (hence 'on the cushions', in contrast to footplates or seats of old) but many choose to sit in the rear cab, so as not to be disturbed whilst not disturbing their working colleague.

 

[baz962]

I'm none the wiser. Can someone put it in plain English without rail jargon?

Staff traveling as a passenger to get to work or home , or to travel between depots etc

 

[43066]

I'm none the wiser. Can someone put it in plain English without rail jargon?

Diagrammed to travel as a passenger (hence “pass”) who sits “on the cushions” in passenger accommodation.

 

[Ken H]

Re people travelling in crew areas, a colleague of mine nearly got bumped off the last Schiphol - Birmingham flight that day. They let him sit in a spare seat in the cockpit! before 9/11

 

[L401CJF]

Quote function didn't work properly, replying to this post on first page
"Many years ago I was told that Southern trains on the West London Line were so rammed that people started using the back cab to travel in.
RPI were deployed at Kensington Olympia to ask them to leave and report for prosecution"

This was common on the 508s back in the 80s down South apparently, there's a few photos on Flickr somewhere of exactly that!

 

[Bletchleyite]

This was common on the 508s back in the 80s down South apparently, there's a few photos on Flickr somewhere of exactly that!

Until the 1990s refurbs 50x had no security on the cabs at all*, so people could easily do that. Interestingly despite Merseyrail having plenty of antisocial behaviour at times you never, ever saw anyone abusing this fact. It was like a force field.

I don't see how people would have got in Electrostar cabs, though until they moved to 8-car operation there was certainly a serious overcrowding problem that way!

* As built the handle for opening the cab door from the passenger side had break glass on it, but this was soon removed (or vandalised and not replaced).

 

[AmericanRich]

Re people travelling in crew areas, a colleague of mine nearly got bumped off the last Schiphol - Birmingham flight that day. They let him sit in a spare seat in the cockpit! before 9/11

I recently flew on several of the Loganair inter-Orkney flights, and on the final one, which included the Papa Westray-Westray hop, a girl sitting in the very back said she was feeling claustrophobic (she had been crammed next to a French cameraman) and so was allowed to sit in the co-pilot's seat for the longer return to Kirkwall! Apparently not an altogether rare occurrence insofar as the planes only have eight passenger seats anyway. I was quite jealous ...

 

[Goldfish62]

I been in the rear cab of a 455 (running as a 4-car train) when the guard took pity on me and my son in his baby buggy. I've also been in a D stock train on the Tube at a time of disruption when, from my position wedged against the "J" door (inner cab door) I heard the driver of the first Richmond train for nearly an hour let some people ride in the cab (telling them "not to touch anything").

Envious? It was enough to Turnham Green!

I've been in the rear cab of a 455 when the train became hideously overcrowded. I hasten to add this was many years ago!

 

[_toommm_]

You’d regularly find the secondman’s side of the back 158 open on (what was) EMT from Liverpool to Norwich at peak times. There was serious overcrowding up to the point where if I got on at Dore to Sheffield I’d struggle massively.

 

[randyrippley]

Back in the 1960's the cross-country sets on Bristol-Weymouth runs often had passengers in the leading cab on summer saturdays - though on at least some occasions they seemed to be the driver's family on a day out.

 

[wobman]

We live in a very different society now, letting anybody in a train cab that's not authorised is not permitted in anyway nowadays.
Drivers get in trouble for permitting luggage in the second man's side, the railways need more capacity especially as restrictions are lifted and passenger numbers rise.

 

[Brush 4]

Of course in the olden days, a relief would run at short notice. Until recently, this had been impossible with stock reduced to a minimum. However, post Covid, it should be possible to put on a relief unit. Problem these days though is staffing. Trains cancelled due to driver shortage is not uncommon unfortunately.

 

[43066]

Drivers get in trouble for permitting luggage in the second man's side,

I’ve heard of drivers being given a talking to for carrying their own bike (and even a dog on one occasion) in the cab in a way which might impede egress.

But luggage on the secondman’s side?! When does that ever happen?!

 

[JN114]

To reiterate as the thread is going around in circles -

The specific, cancelled train wasn’t cancelled because of overcrowding.

Overcrowding in the (very) early hours of the morning led to stock and driver displacement that ultimately led to this, and a round trip to Bedwyn and back being cancelled.

It’s precisely running extra, off-timetable relief trains that caused the mess in the first place.

Given the numbers involved, I’d also do it again in a heartbeat.

 

[Egg Centric]

"Fuxing" EMU

@miklcct how do you pronounce this?

 

[507 001]

Until the 1990s refurbs 50x had no security on the cabs at all*, so people could easily do that. Interestingly despite Merseyrail having plenty of antisocial behaviour at times you never, ever saw anyone abusing this fact. It was like a force field.

I don't see how people would have got in Electrostar cabs, though until they moved to 8-car operation there was certainly a serious overcrowding problem that way!

* As built the handle for opening the cab door from the passenger side had break glass on it, but this was soon removed (or vandalised and not replaced).

Merseyrail 50X cab doors are still as you describe. They’ve never had the glass or handles removed.

 

[wobman]

I’ve heard of drivers being given a talking to for carrying their own bike (and even a dog on one occasion) in the cab in a way which might impede egress.

But luggage on the secondman’s side?! When does that ever happen?!

Conductors have put the luggage in the second man's side if trains are full and standing, it frees up space for more passengers. It can be done on sprinter units quite easily.

Just spend a day on trains along the N Wales coast during any holiday season and see how busy the trains get. I've seen 100 people with prams and luggage left behind at stations numerous times over the years.

 

[miklcct]

@miklcct how do you pronounce this?

Foo-shing E-M-U

 

[wobman]

Merseyrail 50X cab doors are still as you describe. They’ve never had the glass or handles removed.

Some of the 153's TFW have inherited have a glass window in the cab door, luckily a blind has been fitted. It's distracting enough when kids or drunks ate kicking or banging on cab doors, it happens quite often especially at night.

 

[Tomnick]

But luggage on the secondman’s side?! When does that ever happen?!

I've had luggage on the secondman's side on a few occasions on full and standing trains, where the leading vestibule (15x) has been overcrowded to the point of "not taking this". I'd rather offer to take a couple of big suitcases or folded pushchairs into the cab to make a bit of room than start evicting people. They're not in my way over there.

 

[dk1]

In the bad old days when we had Scuds on the East Suffolk line I often used to allow luggage for further down the route to be put into my cab which wasnt a problem. Then one day a girl asked if she could put her childs buggy in to which I said of course. Wasnt expecting the bloody kid to be still in it. I said the buggy but not the child to which her reply was "but hes asleep" Needless to say i left with only luggage on the secondmans side.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Merseyrail 50X cab doors are still as you describe. They’ve never had the glass or handles removed.

The glass was reinstated in the late-90s refurbs. I thought they had replaced the door but it seems not (just Googled for a pic)!

Perhaps it was never officially removed, but I certainly remember it not being there on most if not all units when I was doing the daily "school run". The reason I remember it is that the drivers just used the handle to open it and not their carriage key when they changed ends. Though some would even just leave it open entirely while changing ends.

 

[43066]

I've had luggage on the secondman's side on a few occasions on full and standing trains, where the leading vestibule (15x) has been overcrowded to the point of "not taking this". I'd rather offer to take a couple of big suitcases or folded pushchairs into the cab to make a bit of room than start evicting people. They're not in my way over there.

Fair enough. I guess this is more of a thing in areas with short train length combined with crowding.

 

[Taunton]

The glass was reinstated in the late-90s refurbs. I thought they had replaced the door but it seems not (just Googled for a pic)!

Perhaps it was never officially removed, but I certainly remember it not being there on most if not all units when I was doing the daily "school run". The reason I remember it is that the drivers just used the handle to open it and not their carriage key when they changed ends. Though some would even just leave it open entirely while changing ends.

I think I recall exactly the same (handle and rapidly missing glass/perspex cover; easy access) on the old Wirral Class 503 units when they had the walk-through doors inserted for use on the new Loop single line tinnels in the 1970s.

 

[507 001]

The glass was reinstated in the late-90s refurbs. I thought they had replaced the door but it seems not (just Googled for a pic)!

Perhaps it was never officially removed, but I certainly remember it not being there on most if not all units when I was doing the daily "school run". The reason I remember it is that the drivers just used the handle to open it and not their carriage key when they changed ends. Though some would even just leave it open entirely while changing ends.

Got to admit, I don’t ever remember seeing one without the glass.