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Car on the track at Cheshunt 15/07

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Paul Jones 88

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Just seen on daily mail online that police were chasing a stolen car which smashed through the level crossing gates at Cheshunt and turned onto the track heading towards Waltham Cross, customers who were waiting for the train filmed the incident which was looked quite dramatic, it was fortunate for all concerned that there was no trains about at the time.
 
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D6130

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Absolutely crazy! I have been sent a video by WhatsApp of the car careering along the track through the station, but I don't know how to post it on here.
 

Geno

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Just seen on daily mail online that police were chasing a stolen car which smashed through the level crossing gates at Cheshunt and turned onto the track heading towards Waltham Cross, customers who were waiting for the train filmed the incident which was looked quite dramatic, it was fortunate for all concerned that there was no trains about at the time.
Presumably as the crossing barriers were down when the car driver turned from the road onto the railway track, there must have been a train 'about' at the time?
 

Ediswan

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I just looked at the Daily Mail video. They turned left on to the tracks, from the east. That means they had discovered they had gone down a dead end and were now retracing their route, with the possibility of meeting the police head on.

The car went a fair way along the tracks. The last photo in the BBC article appears to have been taken from Trinity Lane footbridge, looking south.
 

Bald Rick

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There were trains about at the time. One on the up on approach (due to stop at Cheshunt), and a Stansted Express on the Down that (luckily) was a couple of minutes down. Had it been on time the car would have been in harms way.

It is straight track around there so drivers would have seen the car on the track, but that’s not much use if it appears in front of you when you’re doing 85mph.

That means they had discovered they had gone down a dead end and were now retracing their route, with the possibility of meeting the police head on.

A certainty that they would meet the police. If there’s one thing to guarantee a massive police response, it’s driving off from the police and injuring one of them in the process. I should think most of Hertfordshire’s finest were en route, if not already there, the other side of the crossing waiting
 

Ken_Ilworth

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Presumably as the crossing barriers were down when the car driver turned from the road onto the railway track, there must have been a train 'about' at the time?
Indeed - and once the barrier has been demolished, two pedestrians (one a dog walker, I think, and one pushing a buggy?) encroach further with 3 barriers still down and the 4th ready to be potentially flung who knows where..
 

jon0844

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Indeed - and once the barrier has been demolished, two pedestrians (one a dog walker, I think, and one pushing a buggy?) encroach further with 3 barriers still down and the 4th ready to be potentially flung who knows where..

A rather dangerous form of rubbernecking considering what might have happened if a train had come through at linespeed and hit the car. Frankly, the people on the platform were in a fair bit of danger too - but couldn't necessarily do much about it.

As said above, the road on the other side was indeed a dead end. There's a lake and the canal, so there was absolutely nowhere the car could have gone to escape. Of course, they could have got out and legged it and hidden in numerous places and made it very hard for the police, even with a chopper, to find them - but they opted to use the track.

It's very lucky that it didn't turn out worse. Does anyone know who put the call in to stop the trains? Was it a driver on an approaching service, station staff or NR monitoring the crossing (but if the barriers were already down and locked, I assume the monitors would have gone off - or are there sensors to detect encroachment?).
 

158747

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Reminds me of the two burglers who after stealing clothing from a Go Outdoors store in Cardiff in 2009 made their escape on a quad bike along the adjacent railway line. They were then killed when an empty passenger train collided with them as they were driving along the line.
 

Bald Rick

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It's very lucky that it didn't turn out worse. Does anyone know who put the call in to stop the trains? Was it a driver on an approaching service, station staff or NR monitoring the crossing (but if the barriers were already down and locked, I assume the monitors would have gone off - or are there sensors to detect encroachment?).

I don’t know, but it could have been the driver of the up train who would have seen it happen if he/she was south of Wharf Road crossing a mile or so north. Or it could have been the signaller - as soon as that barrier came off the protecting signals would have reverted to danger and the signaller would have known something was amiss and turned the cameras on.
 

Meerkat

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Initial reports at the time this happened said station staff reported it.
Do station staff have a big red button, or equivalent of, or do they have to ring the signalman and explain who they are, where they are, and what has happened?
 

Sleepy

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Do station staff have a big red button, or equivalent of, or do they have to ring the signalman and explain who they are, where they are, and what has happened?
They would need to contact the signaller, red buttons only on train GSMR (DLR has lineside devices)
 

Bald Rick

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I suspect it was reported by multiple sources (roughly) simultaneously. But the signaller would have known something was amiss as soon as the car took off the barrier.
 

Deepgreen

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I suspect it was reported by multiple sources (roughly) simultaneously. But the signaller would have known something was amiss as soon as the car took off the barrier.
I'm sure several sources did kick in, but would the crossing cameras only activate manually - are they not on for every use?
 

Gloster

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I'm sure several sources did kick in, but would the crossing cameras only activate manually - are they not on for every use?
I don’t know about the situation at Cheshunt or the current rules, but it used to be that the camera was switched on when it was time to lower barriers and off when they were proved down. Normally the signalman would only switch it on again if there was a problem, such as indicator lights going on and off, or for some other special reason. In general, signallers control several CCTV crossings or have other duties and cannot spend their time continuously watching one crossing. There was, although technology has probably solved it, the problem of ‘screen-burn‘ if the monitor was constantly focused on one image.
 

jon0844

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That's why I asked, because the screens go off and the person in charge can go on to perform other duties. I am sure in an ideal world they'd have people monitoring a bank of screens, but that would be very costly and not work if someone was distracted by an incident elsewhere, or taking a break, or just turning around to talk to a colleague.

I wondered if crossings could automatically detect something like a car breaking a barrier, automatically reverting signals to danger without any manual intervention. Of course, with barriers down the assumption is there's a train nearby so it's still going to be touch and go whether even a near instant detection can actually prevent something tragic happening.
 

Gloster

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I wondered if crossings could automatically detect something like a car breaking a barrier, automatically reverting signals to danger without any manual intervention. Of course, with barriers down the assumption is there's a train nearby so it's still going to be touch and go whether even a near instant detection can actually prevent something tragic happening.
It used to be, and almost certainly still is, that having a barrier knocked off will cause either the control panel indicator lights to flash or a buzzer to ring or both. I only worked barriers that were outside the box and controlled from within it, but even a gust of wind or an inquisitive child lifting one would cause the buzzer to go off. I expect that nowadays most have plenty of mechanisms to alert the signaller if something untoward happens, although it is possible (if unlikely) that a barrier could be removed so cleanly that it does not register.
 

Argyle 1980

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There were trains about at the time. One on the up on approach (due to stop at Cheshunt), and a Stansted Express on the Down that (luckily) was a couple of minutes down. Had it been on time the car would have been in harms way.

It is straight track around there so drivers would have seen the car on the track, but that’s not much use if it appears in front of you when you’re doing 85mph.



A certainty that they would meet the police. If there’s one thing to guarantee a massive police response, it’s driving off from the police and injuring one of them in the process. I should think most of Hertfordshire’s finest were en route, if not already there, the other side of the crossing waiting
I've been unfortunate enough to have been a passenger on a train that struck a parked car on a level crossing at line speed (100mph) only on that occasion the car was deliberately parked on the LC.
On that incident, my initial thought was we'd hit a person or animal, until the train manager announced for anyone onboard to cover any children's ears before he announced what had happened. Ended up stuck on the train for over 6 hours before being evacuated by the fire bridge.
It was only the next day in the news we learned it was a deliberate act and a Newbury copycat suicide and my first thought was how that could have ended so differently. To make matters worse it happened to be Christmas eve.
I did get told by an ex driver after this incident that the trains speed is what probably stopped it from derailing that night.
Had this incident at Cheshunt involved a train, it would have been absolutely carnage, especially being in a station.
 

AndyHA

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Lightening the mood slightly , at Bishop’s Stortford Station , they were saying on the screens and over the Tannoy , that a large “object” had fallen on to the track in the Cheshunt area .

When is the “Railway “ going to Man up and start telling the truth , and stop hiding behind ”general statements” like an operational difficulty or earlier problems ?
 

flitwickbeds

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Lightening the mood slightly , at Bishop’s Stortford Station , they were saying on the screens and over the Tannoy , that a large “object” had fallen on to the track in the Cheshunt area .

When is the “Railway “ going to Man up and start telling the truth , and stop hiding behind ”general statements” like an operational difficulty or earlier problems ?
Does everyone need to know all the intricate details, every time, just so a group of railway fans have their curiosity satisfied?
 

py_megapixel

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Lightening the mood slightly , at Bishop’s Stortford Station , they were saying on the screens and over the Tannoy , that a large “object” had fallen on to the track in the Cheshunt area .

When is the “Railway “ going to Man up and start telling the truth , and stop hiding behind ”general statements” like an operational difficulty or earlier problems ?
Does everyone need to know all the intricate details, every time, just so a group of railway fans have their curiosity satisfied?
Indeed. Does the average passenger really care exactly what it is? I'd wager not - "a large object on the track" is perfectly sufficient to understand why their train isn't going anywhere.

But no - whenever disruption occurs that is no fault of the railway, people will still insist upon shifting whatever blame they can to the TOCs, Network Rail, the train manufacturers, or the person who runs the refreshment stand on platform 8 at Reading's cat, in a series of ever more ridiculous complaints.
 

flitwickbeds

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Lightening the mood slightly , at Bishop’s Stortford Station , they were saying on the screens and over the Tannoy , that a large “object” had fallen on to the track in the Cheshunt area .

When is the “Railway “ going to Man up and start telling the truth , and stop hiding behind ”general statements” like an operational difficulty or earlier problems ?
Also (I missed this the first time I replied), "man up" is a really toxic phrase to use. Especially in a post which wishes to "lighten the mood"!
 

Falcon1200

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Does everyone need to know all the intricate details, every time, just so a group of railway fans have their curiosity satisfied?

Yes.

Indeed. Does the average passenger really care exactly what it is? I'd wager not - "a large object on the track" is perfectly sufficient to understand why their train isn't going anywhere.

Yes, not least because giving the full story will take some pressure off those railway staff who have to deal with the many passengers affected. And TBH, in this day and age many people will know from the likes of Facebook what has happened as soon as, if not before, some staff.
 

zwk500

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Yes, not least because giving the full story will take some pressure off those railway staff who have to deal with the many passengers affected. And TBH, in this day and age many people will know from the likes of Facebook what has happened as soon as, if not before, some staff.
It is likely the information screen system has a limited number of auto messages, and 'car on track' is not among them, so they chose the nearest message that conveyed the nature of the problem. Its possible its driven by the Trust delay code, which would not have the detail to specify what the obstruction is.
Also, 'a large object' is a correct description of the obstruction on the track!

Once people have been told there is a delay, and how long it will take to fix, the majority of passengers do not care about the detsils of an incident, instead focusing on how to complete their journeys. As you say, anybody who wants to know more can go on twitter. Having more detail on CIS screens will not take pressure off staff organising replacement buses or ticket acceptance.
 
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