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Car on the track at Cheshunt 15/07

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mmh

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In my personal experience, Airlines are just as "bad" as the railway's when it comes to justifying a delay.

They're certainly the masters of "this flight is delayed due to the late arrival of the incoming service," which seems to rile people here when it's used on the railway.
Too much information can cause more annoyance. I saw this countless times as a south of London commuter. "This train is delayed due to blah at London Victoria."
Which gets dozens of people on the platform at London Bridge fuming: "but I'm not at Victoria, I'm going from London Bridge to Caterham/Sutton/wherever."

Most people assume that trains just shuttle back and forth along the same track all day. They have, and why would they?, no idea at all that routes are interworked
or how complicated a train's movements over a day might be.
 
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185143

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I was on a train yesterday which was involved in a near miss just outside a station. There was only me and my friend onboard and the conductor came and spoke to us, after he'd seen to the driver. He told us what had happened and we'd obviously be delayed waiting for the police. We both made it clear that firstly we appreciated the information and hoped the driver was ok. He came back to us just as the train began to move to say the driver was (rightly) being relieved at the next station so we'd have to get off and get the train behind. Couldn't have asked for more really.

Having been in a fatality in the past, it was very similar. Conductor came rushing through to check on the driver and then after knowing there were no children onboard announced that there had been an incident behind us, as the fire brigade and ambulances turned up, and they needed to establish exactly what had happened. He, as I later found out, knew exactly what had happened but rightly took the decision to wait until the emergency services had arrived to tell us that.

It's a tricky one because while people don't appreciate being lied to, it isn't always appropriate to tell the precise detailed truth. And I say that having been on both sides of things.
 

Falcon1200

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How do you know this information wasn't given to affected passengers?

Because this is what passengers were told, as per Post #24 here:

Lightening the mood slightly , at Bishop’s Stortford Station , they were saying on the screens and over the Tannoy , that a large “object” had fallen on to the track in the Cheshunt area .
 

O L Leigh

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I firmly believe that passengers appreciate being given as much of the reason for disruption as possible

I think what you mean is that you’d like to know all the information. I’m afraid that the vast majority of passengers simply don’t care about the details and are only interested in how it’s going to affect their journey.

Before I joined the railway I commuted to work in London. One morning the train was 4 cars vice 8 which the driver explained in great detail was due to the other unit failing prep due to a defective damper. Frankly I and the other passengers weren’t interested because we were already on the train and were well used to it being crowded. I have also been chased up and down the platform by a passenger at New St because a train was being held at the station due to a line blockage. Having explained the situation he just wanted to know when his train would get in and refused to believe that I didn’t know.

The railway isn’t a news service, it’s there to move people and goods around. We give people the information they need to help them complete their journeys. In this instance; the line is blocked, services are disrupted, it’s going to take a while to sort out for which we apologise.
 
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D6130

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The railway isn’t a news service, it’s there to move people and goods around. We give people the information they need to help them complete their journeys. In this instance; the line is blocked, services are disrupted, it’s going to take a while to sort out for which we apologise.
I agree with you in principle, but with the proviso that passengers are told when the delay is due to third party negligence, stupidity or criminality. I always found that that took the pressure off the front line staff considerably.
 

skyhigh

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Because this is what passengers were told, as per Post #24 here:
So at one station that's what was said - what about on trains, and other places? As explained, it's not exactly proof that the railway were deliberately withholding information.
 

LAX54

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How do you know this information wasn't given to affected passengers?
Traffic news on the Radio was 'A car colliding with a level crossing and blocking the line'

In my personal experience, Airlines are just as "bad" as the railway's when it comes to justifying a delay.
We were in the USA once, left Hotel, waited at the Airport for check-in to open, then when we got to the check in, advised plane was late, not only late, but had not left the UK yet................an 11 hour flight, they could have contacted passengers saying do not come to the airport yet, the plane is still in the UK !
 

Falcon1200

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So at one station that's what was said - what about on trains, and other places? As explained, it's not exactly proof that the railway were deliberately withholding information.

That was at a major station on the same direct line of route as the incident. And I have never said that the railway was deliberately withholding information, just that it might have been better to tell people more than a vague message. But this discussion is just going round in circles now.
 

Mag_seven

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OK I think we are done here.

If there are any further significant developments with this story then please alert a member of the forum staff and we will look to have the thread reopened.

thanks :)
 

Mag_seven

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Note development in the story below - for legal reasons however this thread will remain locked.


Man charged in connection with incident in Cheshunt​

30 Jul 2021
  • Charges brought against man following incident in Cheshunt.​

  • Keiran Francis, aged 34, of Henniker Road, Ipswich has been charged with theft of a vehicle, criminal damages, assault and further offences.​

  • He is due to appear at court today (30 July).​

A man has been charged in connection with an incident in Cheshunt in which two police officers were injured and thousands of pounds worth of damage was caused to railway infrastructure.

At around 9.30am on Thursday 15 July, Hertfordshire Constabulary was made aware that a vehicle which had previously been stolen from Braintree in Essex had travelled into the county.
 

ANDREW_D_WEBB

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Thread reopened to allow @ANDREW_D_WEBB to provide an update.
This case has now concluded with a 10 year jail sentence for the driver.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-65192531

“A drug dealer who drove a car along a railway track while fleeing police has been jailed for 10 years.
Kieron Francis, 36, drove the Land Rover Discovery through a level crossing and on to tracks at Cheshunt railway station in Hertfordshire on 15 July 2021.
The car had been stolen from Braintree, Essex, on 11 June.
Francis was found not guilty of stealing the car, but convicted of two charges of endangering life.
He had previously pleaded guilty to dangerous driving, driving while disqualified, two offences of criminal damage, unlawfully driving on the railway tracks, assaulting an emergency worker and abandoning the Discovery. He also admitted having no insurance.
Francis had also pleaded guilty to supplying crack and heroin in Braintree between January and July 2021. He was running a drug line in the town.
Francis, previously of Henniker Road in Ipswich, Suffolk, but now of Fossway in Dagenham in east London, was driving the car when officers tried to stop the vehicle in Windmill Lane in Cheshunt.
He tussled with one officer who tried to stop him driving off. He reversed, causing the officer to roll away, and crashed into other cars, before driving off towards the town's railway station.
At the rail crossing, he smashed through a closed barrier and turned south down the track, passing waiting passengers.
A train that was coming down the line had to be stopped.
An eyewitness said he was left "gobsmacked" by what he saw.
"It was like a scene from Grand Theft Auto, the video game," he said.
The court heard 66 trains were cancelled, there were 488 minutes of train delays and costs of £47,700 to Network Rail.
Defending at St Albans Crown Court, his counsel Chantel Gaber said: "He has mental health and learning difficulties. He suffers anxiety and depression and is in constant pain after an accident."
She said Francis said he would not have behaved in the way he did were it not for medication he was taking.
Recorder Eason Rajah KC told Francis: "You deliberately drove through closed crossing barriers. You knew when you did so you were endangering the lives of countless people.
"It is just luck nobody was seriously injured or killed that day. It is only the speed with which the railway was shut down that prevented a serious accident."”
 
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yorkie

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He is a career criminal who has multiple identities:

POLICE want to speak to this man in connection with a number of burglaries.

The Met Police are asking for information about the whereabouts of Kieran Francis who also goes by the name Kieran Pepper.
The 32-year-old is believed to have links to Braintree, Barking, Dagenham, Romford and Ilford.
I predict a return to a life of crime once he is released.
 

brad465

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Quite how his lawyer said:

… and kept a straight face, is remarkable.
Reminds me of the texts read out infront of Alex Jones, from his attorney in the Sandy Hook defamation trial, and his reaction to it.
He is a career criminal who has multiple identities:


I predict a return to a life of crime once he is released.
Which is no surprise given our justice/incarceration systems do not do much for rehabilitation, but that's another debate entirely.
 

swt_passenger

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Gloster

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Owner of the Land Rover can’t be traced or is abroad, dead or otherwise unavailable, so not possible to get a statement from him confirming it was stolen or taken without permission?

Or the criminal’s friends/cronies have advised the owner to be a bit unsure as to whether he might have allowed him to use the car. Or the car doesn’t even have a registered owner.
 

John Webb

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......I wonder why they didn’t or couldn’t prove the theft of the vehicle?
More likely, from watching various shows on TV, that they couldn't prove he'd been the one to steal the vehicle, only that he was driving it at the time of the incident for which he has now been imprisoned.
 

swt_passenger

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More likely, from watching various shows on TV, that they couldn't prove he'd been the one to steal the vehicle, only that he was driving it at the time of the incident for which he has now been imprisoned.
Yes that would be a likely answer. It’s the fairly long sentencing delay I thought more unusual though…
 

AM9

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More likely, from watching various shows on TV, that they couldn't prove he'd been the one to steal the vehicle, only that he was driving it at the time of the incident for which he has now been imprisoned.
It's strange that car theft is considered here anywhere near as important as the rest. Stealing a car is pretty insignificant compared to rest of the catalogue of misdemeanours committed at the time.
 

Gloster

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It's strange that car theft is considered here anywhere near as important as the rest. Stealing a car is pretty insignificant compared to rest of the catalogue of misdemeanours committed at the time.

Because the whole British justice system is set up to protect property, rather than the person.
 
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