Circular return routing query

[Pigeon]

Hoping this hasn't been asked too annoyingly often...

Say there are two routes from A to B: one via X and one via Y. (There is also a direct route X-Y.) A return ticket from A to B is valid on either route, A-X-B or A-Y-B. (As it happens, it is also valid A-X-Y-B, if this is relevant.) There exists also a station Q, which is between X and A. Like this:

Obviously, the straightforward circular journey A-Y-B-X-A is allowed. But what about moving the start/end point around the circle, to start at Q? With a return from A to B (or B to A), is it allowed to go Q-A-Y-B-X-Q? (Every station is either a change of train or a point where the through service calls.) Or would this also need something like a single Q-A to legitimise it?

 

[Alfonso]

You'd usually need the single to legitimise it, otherwise you'd be using a portion of the return before the outward. If you did the journey more the once you could use the remaining bit of your previous return instead, if it was still valid

 

[lyndhurst25]

https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...1-ticket-types-conditions.70018/#post-1179548
"It is permitted to start the return journey without having made (or completed) the outward journey, but the outward portion of the ticket then becomes invalid and can no longer be used. In other words, the outward portion is only valid when still in possession of the unused return portion."


With a A to B return ticket you would have to use the return portion to start short and travel from Q to A. But then your ticket would have no further validity. You've reached the destination of the return portion, and you can't use the outward portion as the return portion has been used. In this case, also buying a Q to A single would allow you to use your A to B return ticket portions in the correct order and complete the circular journey starting and ending at Q.

With a B to A return ticket you could start short on the outward portion of travel from Q to A. Then you could use the return portion to travel from A to B going either A-Y-B or A-Y-X-B. As the return portion expires at B so you'd need to buy a B to Q single ticket to get back to Q.

What are the actual stations you have in mind? Would a Q to Y or Q to B return allow you to do the whole circle?

 

[Pigeon]

Thank you, that makes it all very clear. I did kind of suspect that that would be the case, but I wasn't sure and needed to know for definite.

Unfortunately Q-B is only valid via X, and Q-Y is not valid via B, which is how the question arose in the first place - the ticket needs to have A as one of the endpoints in order to be valid both routes, according to the routing information on the ATOC website. The alternative option that does work is a bunch of singles for the different sections of the route; it's touch and go which works out cheaper depending on the time of day and the dependence of the identity of B on the calling patterns of the particular services used. Thanks to your information I can now do that working out with confidence that my answer will be valid.

 

[zoneking]

This occurs quite often for people making complicated journeys. The distances and routes covered are exactly the same, just taken in a different order. which is not allowed. The railway does itself no favour with these types of rules. A season ticket would be valid in this case, but a non season ticket would not. The answer is something like a daily season ticket, but that would be open to abuse involving giving it/selling it to other people, which used to happen in the London travelcard area before Oyster.