Class 108 routes, Liveries and other DMU's

[camperdown9]

Hi

(Introduction...skip if you are short on time)

I should start of by saying that I know next to nothing about rail infrastructure and the railway industry. I used to work in the airline industry and have been an airline geek for 40+ years. However over the past few years the airline industry has to me has started to become less interesting and I have started to take a bit of an interest in trains. Now as I have said "I know nothing".

I am a bit of a collector and recently bought a door from a 108. Its been sanded, filled, sanded, primed, undercoated and has had two coats of gloss so far. Hopefully I am going to be permitted to keep it in the house, but that might be unlikely.

Anyway questions...

(Question 1)

What routes were Class 108's used on? I have seen some photos of some 108's with "metrotrain" branding take at Manchester. Where they only used in the north of England or all over the UK? I think I read that some had first class, so I guess they must of been used on some long-ish routes?

(Question 2)

What was Metrotrain?

(Question 3)

Where the 108's ever in the blood and custard livery? There are photos of a 108 in a livery thats white with a single blue line, what was that? Is there a good website or book that describes the various British Rail liveries?

(Question 4 last one promise)

I used to travel to work on a class 117, the 108's look to me (someone who doesn't know much about trains) very similar. As do the 105's and 101's etc. I am sure they are totally different, but is there a good website that explains the differences?

Thank You

Alex

 

[Helvellyn]

You'll probably a lot of the answers you're after, and more, at https://www.railcar.co.uk/

 

[Tony2]

Try this for history etc.

RAILCAR.co.uk

The history of Diesel Multiple Units (DMUs / railcars) in Britain.

railcar.co.uk

Class 108s were used all over the UK, I photographed some at Westbury and some in Edinburgh for instance.

The white livery with blue stripe was a short lived interim DMU livery in the early 1980s between all over blue livery and blue grey liveries, the white weathered too quickly so blue grey became the standard.

The standard DMU livery before all over blue was all over green so these wouldn’t have appeared in blood and custard. There may be one I’m not aware of done as a special, and in preservation some colourful liveries have appeared.

Class 117s were high density units so lots more doors for access/egress.

From memory Metrotrain was a brand name for local Yorkshire services, I remember the branding also carried on to the second generation units used around this area eg class 141s and 144s.

 

[Mat17]

1) 108s were used pretty much all over the country (except Scotland for the most part). They were one of the larger classes of 1st gen DMUs built at Derby.

2) Metrotrain was the branding used by West Yorkshire PTE - the 108 you saw would most likely have been based out of Neville Hill depot in Leeds. Manchester also had many 108s.

3) 108s were never in blood and custard - this was a loco hauled carriage livery.

The 108s were introduced from 1958 in BR green livery, which then went to BR plain blue in the 1968-1971 time frame. When they were refurbished in the mid-late 1970s many went into white and blue stripe livery, later replaced by Blue/Grey in the early 80s - the vast majority were withdrawn in that livery, except in the south east where some even made it into NSE.

4) 108s whilst they look similar to 117s, they are quite different. 117s are all steel in construction, the 108s were mostly alloy, albeit with steel cab fronts and rear ends. The cab front is mostly the same though. Obviously more obvious is the 117s are 'suburban' units with lots of doors, the 108s are 'low density'. There are two varieties of 108 front ends as well - one with a headcode box set into the roof at the front, compared to ones without the headcode box.

 

[trebor79]

Metrotrain was a red and cream livery wasn't it?

 

[Tony2]

Metrotrain was a red and cream livery wasn't it?

Some blue grey DMUs carried Metrotrain branding, see here (not my photo):

Class 110 DMU @ Lincoln Central, 09/01/1988 [slide 8871]

Saturday 09/01/1988 at Lincoln Central, and Class 110 DMU vehicles 51809 51838 are seen with a service for Sheffield. 15/10/2016 1140

www.flickr.com

 

[Mat17]

Metrotrain was a red and cream livery wasn't it?

Yeh but 108s never made it into the livery. The only units that made it into Metrotrain red and cream were: 141, 144, 155, 158, 307, 308 and 321s.

Some blue grey DMUs carried Metrotrain branding, see here (not my photo):

Class 110 DMU @ Lincoln Central, 09/01/1988 [slide 8871]

Saturday 09/01/1988 at Lincoln Central, and Class 110 DMU vehicles 51809 51838 are seen with a service for Sheffield. 15/10/2016 1140

www.flickr.com

I miss those days, semaphores and 1st gen units at Lincoln! A 110 no less, a proper WY unit, not the more usual Lincoln based 114s.

 

[Tony2]

This is probably as near to blood and custard as you will get, a preservation non standard livery, I thought one of them would have received an unusual livery like this (not my photo):

54274 06.10.2018

54274, Class 108 is seen preserved at the Wensleydale Railway carrying an unusual maroon and white livery.

www.flickr.com

 

[Bevan Price]

When new, most Class 108 were allocated to depots in Northern England, (as also were) Class 104. As they got older, they started to spread more around England & Wales - apart from the former Southern Region electrified lines. Class 114 looked similar to Class 108, but had longer coach bodies. As built, in addition to 2 coach dmus, a minority of Class 108 ran as 3 or 4 car sets, but I think all of these were eventually either withdrawn, or reduced to 2 car sets.

 

[AY1975]

I think I read that some had first class, so I guess they must of been used on some long-ish routes?

108s all did when built, as did most classes of first generation DMU. At least in the 1950s and 60s even most DMU-operated local services had First Class but gradually became Second Class only over the years - I think a few DMU-operated services, especially suburban services, lost their First Class in the 1970s and the rest mostly did in the early to mid 1980s apart from those in the Network SouthEast area which mostly retained First Class.

As I recall a small fleet of Class 108 Driving Trailer Composites were paired with Class 115 DMBSs to work on Chiltern Line services out of London Marylebone in the late 1980s and had their First Class reinstated.

Yeh but 108s never made it into the livery. The only units that made it into Metrotrain red and cream were: 141, 144, 155, 158, 307, 308 and 321s.

The original Metrotrain livery was pale grey and green, but IIRC only the 141s ever carried that livery.

Class 108s were used all over the UK, I photographed some at Westbury and some in Edinburgh for instance.

The ones you saw at Edinburgh were probably 107s rather than 108s. AFAIK the 108s never ran in Scotland while the 107s were confined to Scotland pretty much all their lives - mainly around Glasgow but also on Glasgow-Edinburgh via Shotts. The 107s and 108s were pretty similar, though.

108s also weren't traditionally associated with the Western Region but as I recall a few found their way there in their last few years of service in the late 1980s and early '90s.

When new, most Class 108 were allocated to depots in Northern England, (as also were) Class 104. As they got older, they started to spread more around England & Wales - apart from the former Southern Region electrified lines.

And apart from the Southern Region non-electrified lines, which were mostly worked by DEMUs rather than diesel-mechanical units.

 

[The exile]

108s also weren't traditionally associated with the Western Region but as I recall a few found their way there in their last few years of service in the late 1980s and early '90s.

They were the mainstay of Bristol area DMU services by the end.

 

[Taunton]

I am a bit of a collector and recently bought a door from a 108. Its been sanded, filled, sanded, primed, undercoated and has had two coats of gloss so far ... Were they only used in the north of England or all over the UK? I think I read that some had first class, so I guess they must of been used on some long-ish routes?

The Class 108, alias Derby Lightweights, were built over a fairly limited period, 1958-62. They had alloy bodies on short underframes and "low density" (alias bus-style) seating, while at the same time on a parallel assembly line Derby built Heavyweights, suburban-style units with high density seating and steel bodies on long underframes. The 108s were ordered by, and for long worked in, just the London Midland and the North Eastern Regions, though spreading out later.

Regarding the door, what is it made of? Alloy, steel or fibreglass?

First class was pretty much a universal provision on the railway at the time, and appeared on most branch services. I suspect it often went a long time without being used at all by anyone who had paid an extra fare.

The set builders were most commonly recognised by their front end, which readily distinguish the Derby 108s from comparable sets built by Metro-Cammell, Birmingham RCW, and others. There were two Derby designs, an initial one with the destination above the front windows, and halfway through production a new design with the 4-character indicator above, which somewhat changed their appearance. The same fronts were used for the Derby Heavyweights, and also for various types from other outside builders, where I understand Derby actually built and supplied the fronts under subcontract.

There were a couple of builds of heavyweight cars which are sometimes mistaken for 108s, because they have the low density seating. Right at the start of production Derby built 50 2-car sets for the Eastern Region at Lincoln, the E500xx series, which had steel bodies on the long frame. Like the 108 2-car units they had just one power car, which proved underpowered for the considerable extra weight, and all were fairly quickly refitted with larger engines. Then in the final construction some 25 low density 3-car sets for the Scottish Region were also built with steel bodies on the heavyweight line, the lightweight line having closed down by then, but this time on the short underframes. You would have to be a notable rivet-counter to spot the difference from a normal 108, but in the structure it was substantial.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

The original Metrotrain livery was pale grey and green, but IIRC only the 141s ever carried that livery.

Pale grey??? The official names of the colours were apparently Verona Green; and Buttermilk. Definitely more cream or beige than grey. WYPTE buses used the same (or very similar) colours (albeit with the green as the base rather than cream) up until deregulation- which was then switched out for brighter shades of green and cream in a different pattern by Yorkshire Rider once their management buyout took place.

 

[delt1c]

there was a 107 TS0 allocated to Neville Hill reason for this I never understood

 

[Bevan Price]

Not mentioned previously, there was a batch of 29 Class 108s with twin power cars (51922-50 + 52037-65) initially some at Allerton for the line via St. Helens (Shaw Street - now Central), which has some steepish gradients. They could easily outpace almost anything else on local rail services, and some of my personal station to station records were never beaten by Pacers or Sprinters.
(Corrected version)

 

[Sprinter107]

Class 108s did work in Scotland. There were some allocated there during the early to mid 1960s, and then again from 1987 onwards covering for non availability of other classes. Once again, the brilliant Railcar UK website provides detailed allocations.

 

[USRailFan]

Class 108s did work in Scotland. There were some allocated there during the early to mid 1960s, and then again from 1987 onwards covering for non availability of other classes. Once again, the brilliant Railcar UK website provides detailed allocations.

Weren't they used out of Carlisle to Barrow and Newcastle in the early 90s, before Sprinters/Pacers took over?

 

[Taunton]

Weren't they used out of Carlisle to Barrow and Newcastle in the early 90s, before Sprinters/Pacers took over?

I think they were actually allocated to Carlisle, but operated wholly on the Cumbria line, right through to Lancaster. The Newcastle-Carlisle line in my experience was wholly Newcastle-based units, which included some 108s of their own, and the Scottish ones from Dumfries etc, not many as most were loco-hauled, would be Ayr-based Swindon units.

The diesel units of this generation were pretty standardised, the controls, engines and power train were the same, which facilitated them being sent around anywhere. Only the bodywork and interior fittings were individual to the manufacturer. Thus if a 108 was sent to a Region that hadn't had them before, like the Western, they could drive them and change a transmission without issue. But if a lamp shade was broken they might be stuck ...

 

[Ianigsy]

Fairly ubiquitous during my teenage years in the north-west, their main area of operations seems to have been an area bounded by the Tyne Valley line in the north, Holyhead in the west, Hull in the east and a line drawn from Shrewsbury via the Hope Valley and Sheffield to Hull in the south. Escapees were not unknown, however - I found myself taking one from Newport to Crewe in around 1991/2!

As has been mentioned, a few sets worked in the Bristol area in the early 1990s and worked as far as Paignton and Barnstaple in everyday service.

 

[Sprinter107]

Weren't they used out of Carlisle to Barrow and Newcastle in the early 90s, before Sprinters/Pacers took over?

I think the Carlisle ones also worked the Windermere branch line at one point too.

 

[Cowley]

On the Western Region we lost our 118s when the 142s took over their duties sometime around 1986, but then a couple of years later the 142s were sent packing and we received a motley collection of 108s, 101s, plus a few 121 Bubble Cars and at least 1 class 117.
The 108s worked to Barnstaple, Honiton, Exmouth, Paignton, Plymouth etc. One (P828) notoriously caught fire near Totnes:

Class 108 DMU at Totnes

The history of Diesel Multiple Units (DMUs / railcars) in Britain.

www.railcar.co.uk

Class 108 DMU at Totnes

The history of Diesel Multiple Units (DMUs / railcars) in Britain.

www.railcar.co.uk

 

[Helvellyn]

In the early 1990s when Regional Railways needed to refurbish some first generation DMUs they selected a small number of 117 suburban units, but also wanted some lightweights. If I recall correctly the original intention was to refurbish a number of Class 108 units, but corrosion issues causing concerns about overall body strength meant they instead had to opt for Class 101s.

 

[Mat17]

In the early 1990s when Regional Railways needed to refurbish some first generation DMUs they selected a small number of 117 suburban units, but also wanted some lightweights. If I recall correctly the original intention was to refurbish a number of Class 108 units, but corrosion issues causing concerns about overall body strength meant they instead had to opt for Class 101s.

Correct, highlighted by the collision at Hyde North, the 108 vehicles involved were all damaged, including ones at the rear of each set, the sole 101 carriage was undamaged.