• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Class 175 future speculation

Nym

Established Member
Joined
2 Mar 2007
Messages
9,098
Location
Somewhere, not in London
27 units for 40+ unit diagrams? Bear in mind Heaton provides units for S&C/Leeds - Morecambe, Hull - York/Scarborough - Sheffield and Cumbrian coast services too. Not just North East services.

On paper North East would seem sensible but there are far more to Heaton diagrams than services radiating from Newcastle and Middlesbrough.
I wasn't meaning all Heaton diagrams. Just the routes in the North East. Nor loosing all other units from that depot.

One allocating the 175s to Heaton would be on reasonable length routes for them to operate. With Hydrogen or Bi-Mode units covering other routes in the area not covered by the sprinters that remained.

What about Longsight, as that has the added benefit of being an Alstom depot?
Longsight is full.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

wobman

On Moderation
Joined
2 Jan 2011
Messages
1,233
What about Longsight, as that has the added benefit of being an Alstom depot?
The 175s new home will be longsight until they find a permanent depot, some Chester Alstom staff have already gone to longsight.
 

Chiltern006

Member
Joined
3 Oct 2018
Messages
655
best shout for the 175s are probably GWR, Chiltern or Northern.

could scotrail be a viable option? how many 156s do they have?
 

Clansman

Established Member
Joined
4 Jan 2016
Messages
2,571
Location
Hong Kong
could scotrail be a viable option? how many 156s do they have?
ScotRail have 43 x 156s, so not enough to be replaced by the 20 or so 175s that exist.

Nor is there a need for 175s in any case up in Scotland since the 156s are planned to be binned by around 2025/2026ish for BEMUs/EMUs on newly electrified routes around Glasgow, with the remaining diesel services having enough 158s to cover on the WHL and GSWR if ScotRail decide not to keep a smaller 156 beyond that until decarbonisation from 2030.
 

FrodshamJnct

Established Member
Joined
14 Apr 2019
Messages
3,407
Location
Cheshire
The 175s new home will be longsight until they find a permanent depot, some Chester Alstom staff have already gone to longsight.

Could be used on the Mid-Cheshire if they go to Northern I wonder? They’re cleared as TFW already operate them over it to maintain route knowledge.
 

pemma

Veteran Member
Joined
23 Jan 2009
Messages
31,474
Location
Knutsford
Could be used on the Mid-Cheshire if they go to Northern I wonder? They’re cleared as TFW already operate them over it to maintain route knowledge.

The Mid-Cheshire line needs more appropriate stock for the type of passenger using the service. It's almost comical to see the number of business travellers trying to get work done on a class 150 train.
 

Wolfie

Established Member
Joined
17 Aug 2010
Messages
6,049
The Mid-Cheshire line needs more appropriate stock for the type of passenger using the service. It's almost comical to see the number of business travellers trying to get work done on a class 150 train.
Since when is rolling stock allocation based on the type of passengers using the service? Particularly when DfT are involved? The only recent possible exception that l can think of is SWR to Portsmouth.
 

CBlue

Member
Joined
30 Mar 2020
Messages
799
Location
East Angular
Since when is rolling stock allocation based on the type of passengers using the service? Particularly when DfT are involved? The only recent possible exception that l can think of is SWR to Portsmouth.

Sometimes the posts on here read as if the average passenger is a bowler-hatted city gent type from sixty years ago complete with briefcase and rolled up umbrella....
 

pemma

Veteran Member
Joined
23 Jan 2009
Messages
31,474
Location
Knutsford
Sometimes the posts on here read as if the average passenger is a bowler-hatted city gent type from sixty years ago complete with briefcase and rolled up umbrella....

Think more someone trying to use a laptop when the train has no tables, no power points, no WiFi, no USB charging and 3+2 bay seating.

Even someone just trying to read the morning news will more likely to be doing it on a rechargeable device that requires an Internet connection, than a printed newspaper.
 

507020

Established Member
Joined
23 May 2021
Messages
1,835
Location
Southport
Add in potentially the lost of Heaton based diagrams for the Hydrogen flex trains on Saltburn - Bishop Auckland (if it happens as its all gone quiet) and having to train Leeds / Neville Hill depot staff on them too as they'd need to visit Neville Hill if they get wheel flats (no wheel lathe at Heaton). Not as simple as it looks
Arriva were required to provide a new wheel lathe at Heaton under the Northern franchise agreement. Did this not happen before they were replaced by the OLR?
Could be used on the Mid-Cheshire if they go to Northern I wonder? They’re cleared as TFW already operate them over it to maintain route knowledge.
My money is on them running on routes they are already cleared for, meaning the Mid Cheshire Line, Barrow/Windermere and Northern, displacing other less suitable DMUs.
 
Last edited:

Anvil1984

Established Member
Joined
28 Aug 2010
Messages
1,424
Arriva were required to provide a new wheel lathe at Heaton under the Northern franchise agreement. Did this n

My money is on them running on routes they are already cleared for, meaning the Mid Cheshire Line, Barrow/Windermere and Northern, displacing other less suitable DMUs.

Arriva negotiated with the DfT not to proceed with a lathe for Heaton but to get a double size one put in at one of the North West Maintenance depots (second hand from Old Oak Common IIRC). So Heaton doesn't have tyre turning facilities which means a trip to Neville Hill for any of the North East fleet (inc the 156s) which pick up some flats
 

507020

Established Member
Joined
23 May 2021
Messages
1,835
Location
Southport
Arriva negotiated with the DfT not to proceed with a lathe for Heaton but to get a double size one put in at one of the North West Maintenance depots (second hand from Old Oak Common IIRC). So Heaton doesn't have tyre turning facilities which means a trip to Neville Hill for any of the North East fleet (inc the 156s) which pick up some flats
Is there any intention now to proceed with a lathe for Heaton or is the idea dead now?
 

Anvil1984

Established Member
Joined
28 Aug 2010
Messages
1,424
Is there any intention now to proceed with a lathe for Heaton or is the idea dead now?

No, as I say as soon as they got the double sized lathe the plans for Heaton were scrapped. Hasn’t been on the table for years
 

507020

Established Member
Joined
23 May 2021
Messages
1,835
Location
Southport
No, as I say as soon as they got the double sized lathe the plans for Heaton were scrapped. Hasn’t been on the table for years
In what way is it double sized and where is it? None of the Northern DMUs have double sized wheels do they?
 

Anvil1984

Established Member
Joined
28 Aug 2010
Messages
1,424
In what way is it double sized and where is it? None of the Northern DMUs have double sized wheels do they?

Ok double size may be the wrong term but just means they can do units quicker or more units. Not sure of the ins and outs. One thing is definite, there’s no lathe at Heaton and there are no plans as a result of the movement of the former OOC lathe to the NW in 2018
 

Philip

On Moderation
Joined
27 May 2007
Messages
3,646
Location
Manchester
What do people think about a joint operation between Northern and TPE, at least for an interim period until the Hope Valley line is electrified?

If the units are based at Longsight, TPE could operate the 3-car units for the South TPE route; the numbers match if 14 of 16 are in use per day, this would mean 7 diagrams of double formation. It would allow TPE to give the loco hauled stock back to the leasing company which is what they want to do.
Northern could operate the 2-car units and use them in double formation for various suburban and regional diesel routes around Greater Manchester and the North West. This would release some Sprinters which could either go for scrap or be transferred to more rural routes elsewhere to provide additional capacity on these.
 
Last edited:

The Planner

Veteran Member
Joined
15 Apr 2008
Messages
15,836
What do people think about a joint operation between Northern and TPE, at least for an interim period until the Hope Valley line is electrified?

If the units are based at Longsight, TPE could operate the 3-car units for the South TPE route; the numbers match as if 14 of 16 are in use per day, this would mean 7 diagrams of double formation. It would allow TPE to give the loco hauled stock back to the leasing company which is what they want to do.
Northern could operate the 2-car units and use them in double formation for various suburban and regional diesel routes around Greater Manchester and the North West. This would release some Sprinters which could either go for scrap or be transferred to more rural routes elsewhere to provide additional capacity on these.
Going to be one hell of an interim period.
 

507020

Established Member
Joined
23 May 2021
Messages
1,835
Location
Southport
They don't want them because of the operating costs and because of complaints about how noisy the locomotives are.
But they won’t be noisy or expensive once they’ve got electric locomotives for them.
 

wobman

On Moderation
Joined
2 Jan 2011
Messages
1,233
Tfw have asked to extend the 175s lease until March 2023, so the Caf depot at Chester will be a busy place this year. Who knows the 175s future but they are great long distance units
 

317 forever

Established Member
Joined
21 Aug 2010
Messages
2,544
Location
North West
Class 175s could join Northern to release their 170s to EMR for Nottingham - Liverpool services, plus Derby - Norwich if applicable.
 

43096

On Moderation
Joined
23 Nov 2015
Messages
15,161
They don't want them because of the operating costs and because of complaints about how noisy the locomotives are.
Odd then, that they have gone out to tender for new electro-diesel locomotives for those sets. Not the action of a company wanting to get rid of them.
 

Philip

On Moderation
Joined
27 May 2007
Messages
3,646
Location
Manchester
Tfw have asked to extend the 175s lease until March 2023, so the Caf depot at Chester will be a busy place this year. Who knows the 175s future but they are great long distance units

Will they not just move them all to Longsight depot once 197s start arriving at Chester?
 

Philip

On Moderation
Joined
27 May 2007
Messages
3,646
Location
Manchester
Is there capacity for them at Longsight? Previous posts have suggested there isn't.

There looks to be at least capacity on the outside sidings and perhaps Stockport sidings could be used for units not requiring maintenance or work. The problem is there won't be much capacity at Chester once 197s start arriving in bulk.
 

The Planner

Veteran Member
Joined
15 Apr 2008
Messages
15,836
There looks to be at least capacity on the outside sidings and perhaps Stockport sidings could be used for units not requiring maintenance or work. The problem is there won't be much capacity at Chester once 197s start arriving in bulk.
Chester is meant to be getting enhanced.
 

craigybagel

Established Member
Joined
25 Oct 2012
Messages
5,061
Will they not just move them all to Longsight depot once 197s start arriving at Chester?

There looks to be at least capacity on the outside sidings and perhaps Stockport sidings could be used for units not requiring maintenance or work. The problem is there won't be much capacity at Chester once 197s start arriving in bulk.
It would involve training TfW drivers on Longsight depot - when they already have plenty of other things they need training on.

There's still plenty of space in Crewe for the 197s, that seems to be the short term plan at least.
 

Top