Class 315 preservation society

[315]

the class 315 announced this today

https://m.facebook.com/groups/1091372651042776/permalink/1796597183853649/

The committee are delighted to be able to confirm that, we have recently reached an agreement in principle with Eversholt Rail to secure for preservation a Class 315, once one becomes available. Due to legal reasons no further details can be released at this time. We would like to offer our sincere thanks to our friends at Eversholt Rail for all their help and assistance in this matter.

Now the hard work starts folks. We need you to step up and help us. We need to raise funds for the costs which include movement, storage and restoration. Please folks help us, we are close to achieving our dream. We need you to support us; join the Society, buy our merchandise, bid on our auction items, support our fundraising or just donate whatever you can. We have come a long way but we have even further to go.

 

[prod_pep]

The society has announced that 315820 will officially enter preservation on Wednesday 10th November. It will be based at the Llanelli & Mynydd Mawr Railway.

Excellent that one is secured, although a handful will remain in service for a while to come.

 

[pdeaves]

It will be based at the Llanelli & Mynydd Mawr Railway.

Interesting; is that where a (some?) 483 went, too? If so, it looks like an updated version of the Coventry electric railway museum might be worth considering here!

 

[prod_pep]

Interesting; is that where a (some?) 483 went, too? If so, it looks like an updated version of the Coventry electric railway museum might be worth considering here!

That's right: 483006 is the unit there according to Wikipedia.

 

[43096]

Interesting; is that where a (some?) 483 went, too? If so, it looks like an updated version of the Coventry electric railway museum might be worth considering here!

So just another dumping ground for stock that can’t be used and will deteriorate over time.

 

[torten]

So just another dumping ground for stock that can’t be used and will deteriorate over time.

Spot on. I struggle to see what the long term plan for the unit is beyond leaving it to rot - I'm not sure towing it with a shunter is possible or practical.

 

[DanNCL]

The society has announced that 315820 will officially enter preservation on Wednesday 10th November. It will be based at the Llanelli & Mynydd Mawr Railway.

Excellent that one is secured, although a handful will remain in service for a while to come.

Fantastic news! Interesting it’s heading to the Llanelli & Mynydd Mawr Railway, but it’s quite an interesting an unique collection they’re building there!

So just another dumping ground for stock that can’t be used and will deteriorate over time.

Spot on. I struggle to see what the long term plan for the unit is beyond leaving it to rot - I'm not sure towing it with a shunter is possible or practical.

I’m pretty sure the 315 Preservation Society have a long term aim of having the unit mainline operational, in a similar fashion to how the sole surviving 306 operated for a number of years. If they achieved their goal the 315 would only be kept in Wales temporarily.

As for the 483s one of them will be fitted out with batteries to allow the pair to operate on the Llanelli & Mynydd Mawr Railway self powered.

 

[357]

I'd love to see a 315 preserved, and while the ideas are good, especially with advances in battery power, I can't help but be concerned that it's simply not going to happen.

Some of the leadership of this society are a little "quirky" and seem to make most of their public updates more of a rant than an update.

Lots of people seem to get banned from their group for the strangest reasons too. I won't speak of others, however I personally was banned from their Facebook group twice, once for being interested in the model 3D prints of class 315s, and the second time for pointing out that their list of email addresses had a URL that was not correct.

Best of luck to them, but they won't be getting any support from me or the others they have banned.

"Biting the hand that feeds them" comes to mind.

 

[Alanko]

So just another dumping ground for stock that can’t be used and will deteriorate over time.

That would be my take on it too. Electric stuff doesn't fare well in preservation in the best of times. I personally don't have a lot of time for niche preservation groups with lofty ambitions, zero evidence of how they might achieve any of them and a propensity for fiercely rebuking even the mildest of skepticism with one hand while shaking the begging bowl with the other.

I've run into conflict on Facebook for asking why small isolated heritage outfits keep stockpiling locomotives in poor condition, for example. Height of lockdown when they hadn't seen a fare-paying passenger for months, calls for donation to keep the lights on, and suddenly there are photos of new decrepit locos joining the scrap line. And of course all of these decrepit locos are going to be back up and running in an unrealistic timescale.

 

[WAO]

So just another dumping ground for stock that can’t be used and will deteriorate over time.

As was every heritage rail site at its beginning, perhaps 60 years ago.

Better to support sites we are positive about and charitably leave others to their supporters.

WAO

 

[hst43102]

I've run into conflict on Facebook for asking why small isolated heritage outfits keep stockpiling locomotives in poor condition, for example. Height of lockdown when they hadn't seen a fare-paying passenger for months, calls for donation to keep the lights on, and suddenly there are photos of new decrepit locos joining the scrap line. And of course all of these decrepit locos are going to be back up and running in an unrealistic timescale.

Out of interest, which railways took on which locos?

 

[O L Leigh]

I’m pretty sure the 315 Preservation Society have a long term aim of having the unit mainline operational, in a similar fashion to how the sole surviving 306 operated for a number of years. If they achieved their goal the 315 would only be kept in Wales temporarily.

It's not a parallel situation, though. The Cl306 was kept operational because it was kept under cover at Ilford Car Sheds and maintained on a voluntary basis by the staff there until such time as that situation became untenable, at which point it was transferred to Chappel & Wakes Colne where it was stored outside. When I caught up with the unit at Shildon at the beginning of last year it had deteriorated badly, was missing parts and one of the cars was wrapped in tarps because it was no longer weather-tight.

This will be the fate of 820 also unless something more long-term is sorted quickly. It's great to have plans and ideas, but it's got to be backed up with money otherwise it's just deferring the unit's eventual demise.

 

[Paul Jones 88]

Just out of interest, how much money would be required to buy a Class 315 or 317?

 

[Alanko]

Out of interest, which railways took on which locos?

Most recently a cache of former Harry Needles 20s ended up going to the Caledonian Railway, to join their collection of non-running Sulzer Type 2s. I assumed that they might be making one runner from the working gubbins of the three 20s, but apparently they will all be restored to working order. Quite why a five-mile railway with no connection to the National network requires this many locos/money pit projects is beyond me.

To an outsider it looks like a railway fighting for survival one minute then stockpiling basketcase projects the next.

 

[43096]

Just out of interest, how much money would be required to buy a Class 315 or 317?

That depends on what the buyer's relationship with the ROSCO is like and what the ROSCO's view is on preservation projects. For example, one of the ROSCOs - which doesn't own any 315s or 317s - is willing to donate vehicles to the right group or project.

 

[torten]

Most recently a cache of former Harry Needles 20s ended up going to the Caledonian Railway, to join their collection of non-running Sulzer Type 2s. I assumed that they might be making one runner from the working gubbins of the three 20s, but apparently they will all be restored to working order. Quite why a five-mile railway with no connection to the National network requires this many locos/money pit projects is beyond me.

To an outsider it looks like a railway fighting for survival one minute then stockpiling basketcase projects the next.

They also obtained the Hampshire units from the Dartmoor Railway - one is a runner, but the other has been used as a Christmas Tree for the other.

I think they want to convert one of the Hampshire Units to hydrogen or battery operation for some reason.

 

[Darandio]

So earlier this week they announced that 315820 would enter preservation with the group. Today they announced 315820 won't be entering preservation with the group.

 

[prod_pep]

Notwithstanding the egg on certain faces, it needn't be a major setback as they claim Eversholt will allow a choice one of the final eight units to go next year. This gives them a few more months to get their affairs in order. Saving one Class 315 unit, whatever its number, is all that matters as far as I'm concerned.

It might be different if there were an historical basis for saving 820 over others (e.g. if it were the first or last in service), but I'm not aware of anything special about this unit.

 

[fgwrich]

They also obtained the Hampshire units from the Dartmoor Railway - one is a runner, but the other has been used as a Christmas Tree for the other.

I think they want to convert one of the Hampshire Units to hydrogen or battery operation for some reason.

Sort of. One may have been used as a Christmas Tree at the Dartmoor, but not so much as an intentional Christmas Tree at the Caledonian. The second non running unit will become an alternative energy powered unit (probably hydrogen) in a project led by Aberdeen University.

 

[357]

Statement in full, from their Facebook group:

We are making this announcement with a very heavy heart. Unfortunately due to circumstances beyond our control, we have today release our attempt to preserve 820. We will explain what has happened and what our options going forward are, rest assured we have been promised the pick of the remaining fleet when withdrawal comes.

Unfortunately due to legal issues the agreed short term storage for 820 was declined at the last possible minute, we are not able to explain in more detail why, as we don't actually know other than legal reasons. We have spent all day today trying to come up with solutions to this again we will detail more below. Sadly Evereholt had to have an address to move the unit to by 4pm or they would have no choice but to send it to simms as Ilford EMU Depot is at capacity and can not accommodate us.

Ok so to explain what we have done, we have all been busy making urgent enquiries as to temporary accommodation for 820 all day sadly in the time available to us we could not achieve this. Given anywhere 820 is moved to needs to be route cleared by Network Rail, hence us needing a temporary home before our move to LMMR, this would allow us to get route clearance certification undertook.

So the major question what happens now? Whilst we sadly could not save 820 our friends at Eversholt have given us the choice of the remaining 8 units, this gives us the chance and more importantly time to get everything into place before we take ownership. We understand you may be upset, that is nothing to what myself and the rest of the committee team are feeling now, after all we all set out to save 820 sadly time and circumstance has conspired against us. We wish to thank our friends at Eversholt, MTR, Angel Trains and R O G for all their help and hard work and we look forward to working together shortly when we take a 315 into Preservation. Rest assured 1 315 WILL be preserved just sadly not 820 we already have a cast iron guarantee as to that. This set back does not affect us or our ambition to secure a 315 and we can and will save 1 unit. Please do not think we are going away we are not going anywhere, we knew 3 years ago it was not going to be easy and this set back allows us to bounce back stronger. We are sorry folks but this is completely out of our hands. One last thing folks we still need your donations etc so please keep helping us, we have more time to come back stronger and raise even more towards the restoration.

David Topgood. Society Chair.

 

[43096]

Statement in full, from their Facebook group:

So in short, they had agreed to acquire a unit but had nowhere to take it when it became available.

 

[D365]

Most recently a cache of former Harry Needles 20s ended up going to the Caledonian Railway, to join their collection of non-running Sulzer Type 2s. I assumed that they might be making one runner from the working gubbins of the three 20s, but apparently they will all be restored to working order. Quite why a five-mile railway with no connection to the National network requires this many locos/money pit projects is beyond me.

To an outsider it looks like a railway fighting for survival one minute then stockpiling basketcase projects the next.

Given the fact that Cl20s are still in use on the mainline, perhaps they have some kind of deal with HNRC to restore at least one of the 20s.

So in short, they had agreed to acquire a unit but had nowhere to take it when it became available.

Almost inevitable from the start.

 

[357]

Looking at their Facebook group today it seems they don't even have the funding for transport, or route clearance for their "plan" to work...

2: The main stumbling block is getting the unit gauge cleared by Network Rail for anywhere they do not normally run, that process will cost approx £6K and take up to 26 weeks.

we now have until the next withdrawals to get all i's dotted and t's crossed all necessary clearances in place before our next unit is even withdrawn.

Looking forward we have a few months before anymore units are withdrawn 1 of them will come to us Eversholt have assured us that will happen. So we have a bit of space and time to raise this. We need approx 12K (untested) for Route Clearance to be undertaken between Newport and Llanelli and also then onward Road Transportation costs to LMMR. We are appealing to you all to please dig deep and support us, join the society, bid on auction items, buy lots of merchandise don't forget we still have 2022 Calendars in stock as well or just donate something to us. Link for membership and shop is www.class315preservationsociety.com and our Society Bank Details are in the comments. We are down folks yes but we are by no means out in the slightest, we will achieve our dream but we can only do it with your help.

 

[Mothball]

From the various Facebook posts since the group surfaced i have to admit, my confidence in them has been falling steadily. The idea of paying to have the unit route cleared for one single journey + the cost of that movement only to low loader 4 carriages afterwards makes me wonder why not just focus on low loadering the full journey.

I can equally see the obsession of having a full unit in the aim of keeping it mainline registered Being the groups ultimate demise. If this 6K cost of route clearance is going to be an issue for any potential tours in the future then the unit won't be cost effective to run a single tour anywhere other than the busy commuter lines they have already run. Thats aswell as the costs of some serious, regular maintenence.

While its always a shame to see a class extinct from the mainline its just not realistic to be able to cover the massive costs. I quite like the project with the class 442, preserve a single driving car with potential for haulage in the future. Sure it will never be the same as a fully operational unit but the money can go a lot further. Thats the only way EMU preservation can survive in my eyes.

 

[357]

Totally agree with you, @Mothball

I don't know what the obsession is with having it under its own power. Realistically, it could be interesting as a hauled set on preserved lines. Match wagon for the couplers, the auxiliary supplies for lights and doors on the train powered by batteries.

But the next problem - who wants to pay to spend a day on a preserved railway sitting on a 315?

 

[Bikeman78]

Totally agree with you, @Mothball

I don't know what the obsession is with having it under its own power. Realistically, it could be interesting as a hauled set on preserved lines. Match wagon for the couplers, the auxiliary supplies for lights and doors on the train powered by batteries.

But the next problem - who wants to pay to spend a day on a preserved railway sitting on a 315?

An EMU being towed along isn't really the same. If you're an EMU enthusiast then half the point is the various sounds it makes, e.g. storming up Brentwood bank at 70 mph, motors wailing, old school AWS bell if you sit at the front and the old Westinghouse compressor chugging away. I'm well aware of the difficulties that EMU preservation faces hence why I'm spending a lot of time whizzing around on the class 315s and 317s whilst I still can.

The EPB preservation group has come up with a good compromise. The EPB has been towed by one or two MLVs. These use all the same equipment so it looks and sounds like an EMU.

On a wider note, why is it so hard to run preserved EMUs on the UK network? Various Dutch EMUs do excursions under their own power, most recently a pair of Hondekops. The Mat '64 unit does trips too.

 

[Darandio]

On a wider note, why is it so hard to run preserved EMUs on the UK network? Various Dutch EMUs do excursions under their own power, most recently a pair of Hondekops. The Mat '64 unit does trips too.

I don't think there would be a great difficulty in being able to run an EMU on the UK network, the question is whether you can fill it enough times each year to make it pay. Rattling around in an old EMU for kicks seems to me to be a tiny niche in an already niche market.

 

[43096]

I don't think there would be a great difficulty in being able to run an EMU on the UK network, the question is whether you can fill it enough times each year to make it pay. Rattling around in an old EMU for kicks seems to me to be a tiny niche in an already niche market.

Particularly on an EMU of limited capacity (4 car), 75mph maximum speed and no toilets. The 315 isn't exactly a type that was widespread around the UK, spending its entire life in one area, as a consequence it will also be limited where it can go based on its route clearance.

 

[Bikeman78]

I don't think there would be a great difficulty in being able to run an EMU on the UK network, the question is whether you can fill it enough times each year to make it pay. Rattling around in an old EMU for kicks seems to me to be a tiny niche in an already niche market.

Yes that's true. I wonder how the Dutch make it pay? They don't really go in for haulage like we do in the UK. They are far more into photography. I remember the last day of the 1200s in 1997 (which wasn't the last day as it turned out); there were 1000s of photographers between Haarlem and Eindhoven. There were only about 10 bashers on board, all from the UK. A Dutch lady on the train asked me what on earth was going on. That took some some explaining.

Anyway, apparently the 315 group is hoping to get a farewell tour sorted. I'll definitely be up for that.

 

[StephenHunter]

Particularly on an EMU of limited capacity (4 car), 75mph maximum speed and no toilets. The 315 isn't exactly a type that was widespread around the UK, spending its entire life in one area, as a consequence it will also be limited where it can go based on its route clearance.

It's a PEP unit, though.