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Class 345 progress

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Peter Sarf

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This is a really silly question, but are there any services that will operate from PAD high level with the 7-car 345s next week? Or are these trains not going to be back in service until they have been extended ?
Was discussed up thread. My understanding is that there are enough 9-car 345s to run the required service as the wasteful turn-rounds have gone now that through running is happening. So the Readings should be going through the core.

The only three 7-car 345s left are having their extra two coaches added this month - one should already be half way through the work. So soon no 345s can ever use the short platform (14 iirc) at Paddington.


EDIT :- dug out the previous posts I referred to just a couple of pages back.
Latest 7 car lengthening plan has:

064 being worked on from 31/10/22 - 16/11/22

042 from 07/11/22 - 23/11/22

056 from 14/11/22 - 30/11/22
The above is the latest schedule I know of so by 14/11/2022 there will be no 7-car 345s available. And by 30/11/2022 there will be no 7-car 345s !. Job done !.
If memory serves me right, on the 7 car units the AWS/TPWS equipment is plugged directly into the train and the ETCS and CBTC stuff is completely disabled. With the 9 cars, the EVC* is in charge all the time and the AWS/TPWS feeds into that. That change probably needs a bunch of wiring changes, and extensive testing given that this is safety critical stuff.

* ETCS Vital Computer
Its not a quick job, as above.
I don’t think there’s any self-contained; no sewer work for them to do anymore - so I expect they’ll be temporarily withdrawn for embiggening
Correct. See above.


EDIT - new post below.

I have not been paying much attention but 345064 seems to have been absent from the 7-car diagrams since late October. This fits with it being first in line for lengthening. Lets see if it (re-)appears as scheduled on 14/11/2022.

The 7-car diagrams are now unused since the weekend opening of through services so we wont see any more clues before 14/11/2022. I doubt there will be any problems/delays as Old Oak has practised the lengthening many times already.

Does anyone know any more about progress on the lengthening of the last three ?.
 
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Ex31Rigger

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064 almost completed, return to service predicted for 14/11/22.
042 now a 9 car set but midway through testing/mods etc. Completion target date 21/11/22.
056 Stopped on depot, start conversion to 9 car on the 14/11/22 with a target date of 28/11/22 for completion.
 

Peter Sarf

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064 almost completed, return to service predicted for 14/11/22.
042 now a 9 car set but midway through testing/mods etc. Completion target date 21/11/22.
056 Stopped on depot, start conversion to 9 car on the 14/11/22 with a target date of 28/11/22 for completion.
Thanks for the update. Roll on Winter !.
 

Peter Sarf

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Yesterday (24/11/2022) at 15:40 I saw 345064 from Shenfield and seconds later 345042 going to Shenfield at Paddington (low level).

That only leaves 345056 to be completed (as 9-car) due out Monday 28/11/2022. So have to check Part Time Spotter to see what it might be working.

EDIT 29/11/2022.

Today Part Time Spotter had 345056 working on the Elizabeth Line on diagram OC126. See this. So that is all of the 345s in action as 9-car units. Though I have not seen it with my own eyes. Job done !.
 
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matt_world2004

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Will there be an additional order of class 345s when old oak station opens given it would require 24tph going west of Paddington
 

ijmad

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Will there be an additional order of class 345s when old oak station opens given it would require 24tph going west of Paddington

I vaguely recall the original order had an option for 18 additional trains, I think 5 of which have already been taken up by the extension to Reading.
 

345 050

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Good to see 064 and 042 out today working PAD-ABW. I suspect it will be a while before any further options are taken?
 

345 050

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Edit 21 Dec.

Has anyone noticed problems with units not lining up with the passenger screen doors. This seems to be intermittent problem now. The trains then feel like they are being manually driven into the platform, after they fail to stop in the correct position.
 

Horizon22

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Edit 21 Dec.

Has anyone noticed problems with units not lining up with the passenger screen doors. This seems to be intermittent problem now. The trains then feel like they are being manually driven into the platform, after they fail to stop in the correct position.

Probably an ATO error, therefore driver has to bring it in manually which may cause platform screen driver misalignment.
 

mr_moo

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Edit 21 Dec.

Has anyone noticed problems with units not lining up with the passenger screen doors. This seems to be intermittent problem now. The trains then feel like they are being manually driven into the platform, after they fail to stop in the correct position.
Yep, As a 1 or 2 times per week user of the Elizabeth Line, I've experianced this myself twice - same day, Paddington Eastbound, consecutive trains. A few weeks ago. Both trains were empty from depot in, and departed empty out of service having never opened their doors.

I've also had a work collegue say their train recently did this too and departed empty but they got on the one following it.
 

Bikeman78

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Yep, As a 1 or 2 times per week user of the Elizabeth Line, I've experianced this myself twice - same day, Paddington Eastbound, consecutive trains. A few weeks ago. Both trains were empty from depot in, and departed empty out of service having never opened their doors.

I've also had a work collegue say their train recently did this too and departed empty but they got on the one following it.
Presumably an overshoot then, rather than stopping slightly too soon? The original Victoria line trains would occasionally stop too early and then creep forward a few metres to the correct position. Never had one overshoot though.
 

mr_moo

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Yep, both the ones I saw were overshoots. By annoyingly small distances too - about 1-2m, but enough that the doors wouldn't open of course, and getting permission to reverse is almost certainly too complicated, so out they went.
 

AlexNL

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It's been my understanding that CBTC systems are incredibly picky about where a train stops, and don't do well with reversals as that directly impacts the safety envelope of the train following it. If that's the case on the Elizabeth Line, that may be why they don't reverse after such a minor overshoot but instead continue to the next station.
 

Snow1964

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TfL Board Elizabeth Line committee papers for next weeks meeting have been published, per page 22 appears another train software change is due to happen next month

5.9 (b) the reliability of the class 345 trains. A further train software upgrade to support this is expected to be delivered by Alstom in February 2023.


The meeting pack also has multiple references to stage 5c changes but I think that is not for a rolling stock thread.
 

Dstock7080

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from TfLs Head of Surface Engineering today:
Another great day for the Elizabeth Line - yesterday saw the first operational use of the 'Auto-reverse' function. Auto reverse allows the train to drive itself as it changes direction (in this case at Westbourne Park) whilst the driver walks through the train to re-assume control in the leading cab. Without this functionality the time taken for the driver to change ends would need to be timetabled and would reduce the service offered to our customers.

Enabling this functionality has required the use of extensive and innovative technology coupled with the support of our operator MTR.

As you would expect the safety aspects of this have been inherent in the delivery of this function with the Regulator requiring evidence that this mode of operation 'did not increase risks above the level which exists with a driver supervising from the leading cab'. Internal assurance and Regulatory sign off have both been achieved and yesterday saw the first trial implementation. Any learnings from yesterday will be reviewed, with a further trial day next week, hopefully leading to full implementation from 20th February.

This is the first use of auto-reverse anywhere on a mainline railway in the UK. A great achievement by the whole team, and a special shout out for the Engineering Team - great job!
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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Humbly wondering if there's any need for this thread anymore? They're just a fleet of normal trains, all in service, on all parts of the Elizabeth line now right?
No different really to having a Class 700 thread for example.
 

hwl

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Humbly wondering if there's any need for this thread anymore? They're just a fleet of normal trains, all in service, on all parts of the Elizabeth line now right?
No different really to having a Class 700 thread for example.
Yes, there is still more software to be rolled out for example.
 

samuelmorris

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A curious situation yesterday, around 6:15 we came to an emergency stop just after departing Romford, A/C and PIS shut down and there was a visible cloud of smoke wafting past outside. I assumed that would result in me being stuck there for hours but after what could have been no more than four minutes, the train set off again as if nothing had happened.

Is there anyone here that could shed light on this?
 

Peter Sarf

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A curious situation yesterday, around 6:15 we came to an emergency stop just after departing Romford, A/C and PIS shut down and there was a visible cloud of smoke wafting past outside. I assumed that would result in me being stuck there for hours but after what could have been no more than four minutes, the train set off again as if nothing had happened.

Is there anyone here that could shed light on this?
I am guessing but perhaps a short involving a bird on the OHLE getting near enough to a carriage. I experienced a very bright flash and bang on a 710 last year which I was told was a pigeon becoming ashes !. Took about 5 minutes to get going again.
 

samuelmorris

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I am guessing but perhaps a short involving a bird on the OHLE getting near enough to a carriage. I experienced a very bright flash and bang on a 710 last year which I was told was a pigeon becoming ashes !. Took about 5 minutes to get going again.
Yeah that was my first thought as well. I'm quite impressed that only takes 5 minutes to recover from. Then again I've seen it happen on a 357 and the train didn't even stop!
 

Peter Sarf

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Yeah that was my first thought as well. I'm quite impressed that only takes 5 minutes to recover from. Then again I've seen it happen on a 357 and the train didn't even stop!
Same in third rail land. Bit of a thud + jerk and feathers flying - cannot be entirely sure that is was bounced off the third rail by a pickup shoe but there was a jerk.

Moderator note: this thread has been locked; some posts have been moved to the following threads:


 
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