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Class 345 progress

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JonathanH

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I was at Iver yesterday afternoon-evening and additionally saw 345058 a few times. Did not see 345048 however.
We established that no one will be seeing 345048 around London at the moment.

In other news, it appears that 345017 was taken back to Ilford earlier today, still as a 7-car unit. The locomotive has come back from Ilford to Wembley light engine.

There is a move, presumably for a 9-car unit, from Old Oak Depot to Gidea Park sidings for the 9-car testing referred to by 'Gulf1159' in message 4048 above.

0959 Old Oak Depot to Gidea Park C.H.S.
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K02084/2021-04-16/detailed

It then seems possible that there is a trip from Gidea Park to Shenfield, Liverpool Street and back on Saturday evening, although perhaps this could be something different.
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...7/2100-0100?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt&toc=ZZ
1618504429228.png
[Picture shows a screen shot of output from Realtimetrains showing movements at Shenfield (working Gidea Park - Shenfield - Liverpool Street - Shenfield - Gidea Park between 2140 and 2359 on 17 April]
 

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rebmcr

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It's kind of difficult to follow the current status without investing quite some time in learning the numbering of all the individual units — would those of you well-versed in the fleet list consider making a 'digest' format something like the following, please, so the rest of us can more easily follow along?

Example Crossrail fleet digest said:
East
RLU in service: {tally of how many units}
RLU yet to appear: {}
FLU in service: 0
FLU yet to appear: {}, "345xxx recently sent back from West"

COS
FLU in testing: {}

West
RLU in service: {}
RLU yet to appear: {}, "345xxx recently sent from East for lengthening"
FLU in service: {}
FLU yet to appear: {}

Elsewhere
Plumstead: {}
Derby: {}, "345xxx for (reason)"
(other location): {}, "345xxx for (reason)"
 

absolutelymilk

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It's kind of difficult to follow the current status without investing quite some time in learning the numbering of all the individual units — would those of you well-versed in the fleet list consider making a 'digest' format something like the following, please, so the rest of us can more easily follow along?
I second this!
 

spinba11

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From what I can gather the number scheme is similar to the S stock/09 stock on the tube, is that correct?
 

JonathanH

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I'm only an armchair observer but by tracking movements through the amazing quirk of the availability of open data and the signalling system of the sidings at Old Oak Depot (and calibration of this against other observations) plus observations reported here and elsewhere, the current position appears to be as follows.

East (passenger)
RLU in service: 19 (345003/05-17/22/38/42/56/64) - 345017 moved back from Old Oak Depot today
FLU in service: 0
FLU to appear: Unknown - one appears to be moving tomorrow - it has been reported that only four FLU units can operate on the East side at first.

COS
Old Oak Depot: 10 (345024/25/31-33/36/41/50/53/67)
Plumstead: 4 (345027/37/54/69 are, I believe, currently at Plumstead having finished there after testing on 21 March)

However, there don't appear to have been any movements in the core since that testing on 21 March and 345067 doing some testing at the Paddington end on 28 March.
* 345031 and 345033 appear to have been involved in ETCS testing on Paddington lines on 4 April
* 345025 worked the 5G74-5G79 (Old Oak Depot to Reading) cycle today so may no longer be a 'core' unit
* The initial trial running suggests 6 unit cycles on a every 15 minute frequency but there are schedules in RTT for trains every 5 minutes as this progresses.

West (passenger)
RLU in service: 0
RLU not in service: 1 (345029 does not appear to have been converted - all others have)
FLU in service: 29 (345002/04/21/23/26/28/30/34/35/39/40/43/44/47/49/51/52/55/57-63/65/66/68/70 - 11 of these having been converted from RLU at various points)
FLU to appear: 1 (345020 hasn't been in service since conversion but was out on 5G74-5G79 on Tuesday)

There are essentially only 14 diagrams (9 Reading, 3 Heathrow, 2 Hayes) plus 3 empty workings for 29 units so plenty spare to go to the East side now. If 4tph Heathrow happened, that would be another one.

Other
Old Oak Depot: 345045/46 - 345045 was reported on test on the Heathrow branch on 30 January 2021, not sure when 345046 has been out
Derby / Old Dalby / Worksop: 345001/19/48
Ilford: 345018 - not moved since February 2020

Is the suggestion that this list is repeated as a quote each time a new observation is reported or should it be pinned somehow?
 
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spinba11

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I wouldn't say that - each entire train is one unit rather than two half-units joined together as per the tube classes you listed.
i meant the last few digits are the units number and the digits before them refer to the position of a carriag.
 

samuelmorris

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Sort of, there are two digits for the carriage number (to allow for the potential of running 11-car units in future), the format is 34aabb, where a is the vehicle number, and b the unit number.
 

spinba11

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So the vehicle numbers go from 1 to 9, the 7 car units have 34504bb and 34506bb vehicles missin, have I got it correc?
 

43096

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So the vehicle numbers go from 1 to 9, the 7 car units have 34504bb and 34506bb vehicles missin, have I got it correc?
Nope! They are numbered in the same way as other units on the national network.

Set numbers are 345001-070. Car numbers are:
For set 345001: 340101 340201 340301 340401 340501 340601 340701 340801 340901
...up to...
For set 345070: 340170 340270 340370 340470 340570 340670 340770 340870 340970

Those sets that are in 7-car formation have the 3404xx and 3406xx cars removed.
 

Peter Sarf

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So the vehicle numbers go from 1 to 9, the 7 car units have 34504bb and 34506bb vehicles missin, have I got it correc?
You are nearly correct. But the coach numbers for purely UK trains are only six digits so the class number never/rarely makes it into a coach number. So essentially in the case of 345s the 3rd digit ("5") in your understanding does not exist.

However for European stock its beautiful if long winded. The coach number will have a two digit country prefix (country of ownership I guess), the entire unit number, the coach number and then a check digit. Makes for an enormous number !. Well that my recollection but there are plenty on here who know the exact science.
 

43096

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However for European stock its beautiful if long winded. The coach number will have a two digit country prefix (country of ownership I guess), the entire unit number, the coach number and then a check digit. Makes for an enormous number !. Well that my recollection but there are plenty on here who know the exact science.
It depends on the country... Some parts of the are fixed, others are allocated by the country concerned .

Very briefly, the format is: xx yy zzzz zzz-c AA-BBBB
Where xx denotes the type of vehicle (e.g. 91 = electric locos, 92 = diesel locos, 93 = high speed EMUs, 94 = standard EMUs, 95 = DMUs etc etc etc), yy is the country of registration (70 = UK, 80 = Germany, 84 = Netherlands, 85 = Switzerland, 87 = France etc etc), zzzz zzz defines the vehicle number (for wagons and carriages, the first four digits have specific meanings, for locos and multiple units, it's more free for the country to decide) and c is the check digit calculated from the other 11 digits.

This is followed by the vehicle keeper marking where AA is the country (GB for here, F France, D Germany, CH Switzerland) and then the BBBB letters to denote the keeper, which is not always the owner or the operator, it could be a maintainer (e.g. for loco 193 524 the full number is 91 80 6193 524-6 D-SIEAG - even though it is operated by SBB Cargo International and owned by Südleasing, the VKM is "SIEAG" as maintenance is the responsibility of the builder (Siemens AG)).

All UK stock has full 12 digit numbers allocated, but very few carry them. But we're well off topic now!
 

rebmcr

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That's brilliant, thanks very much indeed!
Is the suggestion that this list is repeated as a quote each time a new observation is reported or should it be pinned somehow?
I don't think it can be easily pinned, so repeated quotes would probably make the most sense.

I don't think every single movement needs listing — anyone with interest in that level of detail probably has no worries following the unit numbers. Milestones like "first Eastern FLU" and/or major changes to the populations at each location would suffice (at least as far as my request goes).
 

JonathanH

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345031 is reported elsewhere to be the 9-car unit heading east from Old Oak Depot to Gidea Park, which was noted above as the unit used for ETCS testing on the Paddington lines on Easter Sunday.

It will be interesting to see whether this enters passenger service when 9-car operation starts on the East side or whether it is specifically a test unit.
 

kevin_roche

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345031 is reported elsewhere to be the 9-car unit heading east from Old Oak Depot to Gidea Park, which was noted above as the unit used for ETCS testing on the Paddington lines on Easter Sunday.

It will be interesting to see whether this enters passenger service when 9-car operation starts on the East side or whether it is specifically a test unit.
I'm guessing that this one will have the most recent software.
 

Snow1964

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If needs must, units could be dragged the old way round to OOC as they are now.

with hindsight probably wish they had electrified the Acton spur to avoid all these drags.

I'm guessing that this one will have the most recent software.

Didn’t the Board papers mention a new version of software to be rolled out from end March, but I don’t remember any comments about only some 9car units getting it.
 

kevin_roche

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Didn’t the Board papers mention a new version of software to be rolled out from end March, but I don’t remember any comments about only some 9car units getting it.

Yes, I think it normally gets tested on one train first and then when tested is rolled out to the others. I suspect this was the first, the others probably have it now or will do soon.
 

JonathanH

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with hindsight probably wish they had electrified the Acton spur to avoid all these drags.
I suspect that it is still easier to do the drags. They aren't that frequent.

It seems that 345010 was the unit brought back from Ilford to Old Oak Depot yesterday as captured in this video.
 

Gulf1159

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I'm only an armchair observer but by tracking movements through the amazing quirk of the availability of open data and the signalling system of the sidings at Old Oak Depot (and calibration of this against other observations) plus observations reported here and elsewhere, the current position appears to be as follows.

East (passenger)
RLU in service: 19 (345003/05-17/22/38/42/56/64) - 345017 moved back from Old Oak Depot today
FLU in service: 0
FLU to appear: Unknown - one appears to be moving tomorrow - it has been reported that only four FLU units can operate on the East side at first.

COS
Old Oak Depot: 10 (345024/25/31-33/36/41/50/53/67)
Plumstead: 4 (345027/37/54/69 are, I believe, currently at Plumstead having finished there after testing on 21 March)

However, there don't appear to have been any movements in the core since that testing on 21 March and 345067 doing some testing at the Paddington end on 28 March.
* 345031 and 345033 appear to have been involved in ETCS testing on Paddington lines on 4 April
* 345025 worked the 5G74-5G79 (Old Oak Depot to Reading) cycle today so may no longer be a 'core' unit
* The initial trial running suggests 6 unit cycles on a every 15 minute frequency but there are schedules in RTT for trains every 5 minutes as this progresses.

West (passenger)
RLU in service: 0
RLU not in service: 1 (345029 does not appear to have been converted - all others have)
FLU in service: 29 (345002/04/21/23/26/28/30/34/35/39/40/43/44/47/49/51/52/55/57-63/65/66/68/70 - 11 of these having been converted from RLU at various points)
FLU to appear: 1 (345020 hasn't been in service since conversion but was out on 5G74-5G79 on Tuesday)

There are essentially only 14 diagrams (9 Reading, 3 Heathrow, 2 Hayes) plus 3 empty workings for 29 units so plenty spare to go to the East side now. If 4tph Heathrow happened, that would be another one.

Other
Old Oak Depot: 345045/46 - 345045 was reported on test on the Heathrow branch on 30 January 2021, not sure when 345046 has been out
Derby / Old Dalby / Worksop: 345001/19/48
Ilford: 345018 - not moved since February 2019

Is the suggestion that this list is repeated as a quote each time a new observation is reported or should it be pinned somehow?

345018 at Ilford is not fit for service or testing and will have to be towed to OOC at some point as it’s been used for a source of spares

345031 was out testing Saturday night between Liverpool Street and Shenfield
 

Snow1964

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345018 at Ilford is not fit for service or testing and will have to be towed to OOC at some point as it’s been used for a source of spares

345031 was out testing Saturday night between Liverpool Street and Shenfield

If it’s not a silly question, if Ilford can unscrew parts to use in other 345s, and install them in other 345s. Then why can’t they refit spares to unit 018

Surely it’s easier to move a van load of required spare parts than move a whole train to another depot for them to screw the same parts on.
 

Gulf1159

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If it’s not a silly question, if Ilford can unscrew parts to use in other 345s, and install them in other 345s. Then why can’t they refit spares to unit 018

Surely it’s easier to move a van load of required spare parts than move a whole train to another depot for them to screw the same parts on.

Depends what parts have been used

Todays 9 car for Gidea Park has just left Old oak depot

 
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JonathanH

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Todays 9 car for Gidea Park has just left Old oak depot
Reported elsewhere as 345033.

I note that the run on Saturday night didn't run entirely to time and missed out Shenfield on its way back from Liverpool Street going directly into Gidea Park sidings.
 

Gulf1159

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Reported elsewhere as 345033.

I note that the run on Saturday night didn't run entirely to time and missed out Shenfield on its way back from Liverpool Street going directly into Gidea Park sidings.

Confirmed 345033. This was due to engineering works

345031 is in the new sidings at Ilford depot
345033 is on 4 road at Gidea Park sidings
 
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JonathanH

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Possibly a first reappearance of 345029 in service this week after conversion to 9-car, the last of the former 7-car units on the west side (other than 345064 which went east) to re-enter service. If so, the way the diagrams work mean it is likely to have done so yesterday morning.
1619125841093.png
[Picture shows a screen shot of output from TrackIt! with headcode '5I29' reported cancelled at berth C313 having returned from Paddington on 5Y25 1928 London Paddington to Old Oak Depot around 1938 on 22 April]

Another move to Gidea Park planned on Friday (but didn't actually happen).
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K02109/2021-04-23/detailed

---------------
Taken from https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...-to-west-midlands-trains.216644/#post-5101580
Someone feel free to quote the unit numbers, but the Chiltern 172/1 units at Ilford behind the MK3 barrier coach
5BB1D730-353B-416B-B2B1-BDDDAA1E9F23.jpeg
I take it that the unit in this picture is 345018 at the back of Ilford depot.
 
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43102EMR

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Possibly a first reappearance of 345029 in service this week after conversion to 9-car, the last of the former 7-car units on the west side (other than 345064 which went east) to re-enter service. If so, the way the diagrams work mean it is likely to have done so yesterday morning.
View attachment 94915
[Picture shows a screen shot of output from TrackIt! with headcode '5I29' reported cancelled at berth C313 having returned from Paddington on 5Y25 1928 London Paddington to Old Oak Depot around 1938 on 22 April]

Another move to Gidea Park planned on Friday (but didn't actually happen).
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K02109/2021-04-23/detailed

---------------
Taken from https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...-to-west-midlands-trains.216644/#post-5101580

I take it that the unit in this picture is 345018 at the back of Ilford depot.
345031 was in the up sidings at Ilford with both pans up, so I can imagine that will be released fairly soon.
 
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