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Class 345 progress

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JonathanH

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37800 dragged 9 car 345038 on yesterdays 5Q50 OOC to Ilford.
7-car seems more likely. No need to drag a 9-car unit.

It would be good to know what went the other way and whether any more coaches have been delivered to Old Oak Common.
 
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PompeyKeith

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i am going to London after a long break away from spotting and am interested to find out which 345s are still running in 7-car formation. I seen on this site that there are about 18 sets yet to be converted to 9-car. Does anyone please have a list of which are still 7-car
 

JonathanH

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i am going to London after a long break away from spotting and am interested to find out which 345s are still running in 7-car formation. I seen on this site that there are about 18 sets yet to be converted to 9-car. Does anyone please have a list of which are still 7-car
Just 15 7-car units now - that is 003/006/007/009/011-017/022/038/042/056, all to be found on the east side of the operation.

Looks like 7-car unit 345064 went across to Old Oak Depot yesterday on the afternoon move as it appears to be reported today on the signal berths.
1629387193563.png
[Picture shows a screen shot of output from TrackIt! with headcode '5I64' reported at signal berths C315 and C321 at Old Oak Depot around 1610 on 19 August]
 
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Bigbru

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Just been down Old Oak Common Lane and one of unit 5's missing coaches is there on a lorry.
 

kevin_roche

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Does anyone know what has happened to Trial Running? I have been away and not able to check every day, but the days I did check in the last two weeks I have not seen anything running in the central section.
 

JonathanH

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Does anyone know what has happened to Trial Running? I have been away and not able to check every day, but the days I did check in the last two weeks I have not seen anything running in the central section.
Trial Running happened on Tuesday and Wednesday this week but with an earlier finish time - eg units back onto depot around 5pm - 6pm instead of around two hours later.
 

kevin_roche

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Trial Running happened on Tuesday and Wednesday this week but with an earlier finish time - eg units back onto depot around 5pm - 6pm instead of around two hours later.
Thanks. That explains it I was only looking on signalmaps after 6:30. I wonder if they are short of drivers because of Holidays and/or Pings from the App. I see some engineering trains on the COS today so maybe it's just to leave days for other work.
 

itfcfan

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Trial Running happened on Tuesday and Wednesday this week but with an earlier finish time - eg units back onto depot around 5pm - 6pm instead of around two hours later.
I was checking RTT and a 12tph (5min frequency) service was running on Wednesday at least. There were some delays early on, but on-time running was achieved in the middle of the day:
 

kevin_roche

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I was checking RTT and a 12tph (5min frequency) service was running on Wednesday at least. There were some delays early on, but on-time running was achieved in the middle of the day.
I have been wondering if they are actually trying to achieve 12tph or practice what should happen when something goes wrong.
 

iphone76

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Thanks. That explains it I was only looking on signalmaps after 6:30. I wonder if they are short of drivers because of Holidays and/or Pings from the App. I see some engineering trains on the COS today so maybe it's just to leave days for other work.
Definitely not short of drivers. They are doing additional works which is reducing the time / days of operation.

I believe it's Monday to Wednesday next week. The 12tph service is proving very difficult to achieve reliably. Apparently they are trying to introduce new control methods so that when things go wrong, they can get back on track sooner.
 

Snow1964

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Definitely not short of drivers. They are doing additional works which is reducing the time / days of operation.

I believe it's Monday to Wednesday next week. The 12tph service is proving very difficult to achieve reliably. Apparently they are trying to introduce new control methods so that when things go wrong, they can get back on track sooner.

There has to be something that is causing this, and must be to do with automatic operation. Not being able to run 12tph seems odd when many other lines (into Waterloo, London Bridge, Liverpool St etc are operating at 22-24 tph everyday (with mixed fleets, which have performance variations)

Now if someone had said struggling to push it upto 27, 30 or 32tph then I could understand, but struggling to reliably get half of frequency that is elsewhere suggests new system is not fit for purpose in current form. Especially as only using one type of train where each can accelerate and brake at same rate.
 

dm1

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There has to be something that is causing this, and must be to do with automatic operation. Not being able to run 12tph seems odd when many other lines (into Waterloo, London Bridge, Liverpool St etc are operating at 22-24 tph everyday (with mixed fleets, which have performance variations)

Now if someone had said struggling to push it upto 27, 30 or 32tph then I could understand, but struggling to reliably get half of frequency that is elsewhere suggests new system is not fit for purpose in current form. Especially as only using one type of train where each can accelerate and brake at same rate.
I think it's probably too early to be drawing conclusions like that.

The whole point of trial running is to find and solve teething problems like this before beginning passenger operations. Hopefully they will manage with this.
 

kevin_roche

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I just saw an interesting thing on Signal Maps. 5Y58 Gidea Park to Whitechapel Crossrail, changed its headcode to 9Y58 after arriving at Whitechapel and continued to Paddington.

I am wondering if this is what might happen when the through service from Shenfield to Paddington starts. The latest plan is to switch to running services at a time that doesn't coincide with a national timetable change. Does that mean headcodes on the GWML and GEML will have to continue as they are and switch when entering or leaving the COS?
 
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JonathanH

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I just saw an interesting thing on Signal Maps. 5Y58 Gidea Park to Whitechapel Crossrail, changed its headcode to 9Y58 after arriving at Whitechapel and continued to Paddington.
That is because it came 'into service' at Whitechapel Crossrail under the trial running timetable, having been empty stock from Gidea Park.

5Y58 0945 Gidea Park C.H.S. to Whitechapel Crossrail
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:54884/2021-08-23/detailed

9Y58 1015 Abbey Wood (Crossrail) to Paddington Crossrail started at Whitechapel
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C69487/2021-08-23/detailed

Empty stock moves from Gidea Park to Old Oak Common run as 5Xxx throughout.

I am wondering if this is what might happen when the through service from Shenfield to Paddington starts.
I don't think it is indicative of that other than for empty stock movements that then come into service.

Does that mean headcodes on the GWML and GEML will have to continue as they are and switch when entering or leaving the COS?
They are unlikely to stay as they are - 9Pxx used on the west side appears to denote Paddington at present (consistent with 1Pxx and 2Pxx used by GWR for Oxford / Didcot / Reading to Paddington) and all the east side operation is currently under 2Xxx headcodes - eg 2Wxx for Shenfield. A west side to east side service terminating at Shenfield might be 9Wxx throughout.

On class 345 matters, 345008 appears to have been on shunts at Old Oak Common to the first signal berth this morning.
 
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kevin_roche

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That is because it came 'into service' at Whitechapel Crossrail under the trial running timetable, having been empty stock from Gidea Park.

They are unlikely to stay as they are - 9Pxx used on the west side appears to denote Paddington at present (consistent with 1Pxx and 2Pxx used by GWR for Oxford / Didcot / Reading to Paddington) and all the east side operation is currently under 2Xxx headcodes - eg 2Wxx for Shenfield. A west side to east side service terminating at Shenfield might be 9Wxx throughout.

On class 345 matters, 345008 appears to have been on shunts at Old Oak Common to the first signal berth this morning.
Thank you.
 

AM9

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That is because it came 'into service' at Whitechapel Crossrail under the trial running timetable, having been empty stock from Gidea Park.

5Y58 0945 Gidea Park C.H.S. to Whitechapel Crossrail
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:54884/2021-08-23/detailed

9Y58 1015 Abbey Wood (Crossrail) to Paddington Crossrail started at Whitechapel
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C69487/2021-08-23/detailed

Empty stock moves from Gidea Park to Old Oak Common run as 5Xxx throughout.


I don't think it is indicative of that other than for empty stock movements that then come into service.


They are unlikely to stay as they are - 9Pxx used on the west side appears to denote Paddington at present (consistent with 1Pxx and 2Pxx used by GWR for Oxford / Didcot / Reading to Paddington) and all the east side operation is currently under 2Xxx headcodes - eg 2Wxx for Shenfield. A west side to east side service terminating at Shenfield might be 9Wxx throughout.

On class 345 matters, 345008 appears to have been on shunts at Old Oak Common to the first signal berth this morning.
Something a bit awry with the RTT log for 9Y58, - it left Liverpool St at 09:34 and arrived at Farringdon at 09:34. Impressive or what? :)
 

JonathanH

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Something a bit awry with the RTT log for 9Y58, - it left Liverpool St at 09:34 and arrived at Farringdon at 09:34. Impressive or what? :)
53 seconds between stations - see

Depart Liverpool Street 10:34:05
Arrive Farringdon 10:34:58

Not sure what the rounding convention is in RTT for these services but not sure it is necessarily awry.
 

JN114

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53 seconds between stations - see

Depart Liverpool Street 10:34:05
Arrive Farringdon 10:34:58

Not sure what the rounding convention is in RTT for these services but not sure it is necessarily awry.

The RTT times are from TRUST reports (you can click/hover over the times to see source)

TRUST truncates to whole minutes, so 10:34:05 would be 10:34 and 10:34:58 would also be 10:34
 

Horizon22

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Thank you.

That is because it came 'into service' at Whitechapel Crossrail under the trial running timetable, having been empty stock from Gidea Park.

5Y58 0945 Gidea Park C.H.S. to Whitechapel Crossrail
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:54884/2021-08-23/detailed

9Y58 1015 Abbey Wood (Crossrail) to Paddington Crossrail started at Whitechapel
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C69487/2021-08-23/detailed

Empty stock moves from Gidea Park to Old Oak Common run as 5Xxx throughout.


I don't think it is indicative of that other than for empty stock movements that then come into service.


They are unlikely to stay as they are - 9Pxx used on the west side appears to denote Paddington at present (consistent with 1Pxx and 2Pxx used by GWR for Oxford / Didcot / Reading to Paddington) and all the east side operation is currently under 2Xxx headcodes - eg 2Wxx for Shenfield. A west side to east side service terminating at Shenfield might be 9Wxx throughout.

On class 345 matters, 345008 appears to have been on shunts at Old Oak Common to the first signal berth this morning.

I imagine that might be some of disruption contingency too being built in - if there’s some issue at Abbey Wood you can run an empty from Gidea Park and start the set at Whitechapel instead.

IDs / head codes are definitely going to be changing. At the moment of course Hayes, Heathrow & Reading arrivals are all 9Pxx (Reading being 9Rxx, Hayes & Heathrow 9Txx) which doesn’t seem the most intuitive. Of course if something is solely on the Central it’s different. They seem to be using 9Uxx which may continue when the line is live.
 

rebmcr

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The Crossrail train planning rules are uploaded online (http://content.tfl.gov.uk/ttpr-2021.pdf) which include the headcode definitions for Crossrail/EL:
Interestingly, this documentation does not cover the 2X## headcodes described earlier in the thread as running in the East.

I suppose they have simply inherited the Class 315's headcodes, and are covered under "TfL Rail" rather than "Crossrail". I wonder whether the peak Liverpool Street High Level services will continue with 2X## after the COS opens?
 

Roger B

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I spent a little while in the capital yesterday, and found:
Westside (all 9-car): 345031, 345033, 345034, 345043, 345047, 345051, 345055, 345062, 345068 (I'm aware I missed one or two Reading units, but I had to get to Stratford for LU PSULish service into/from platform 11 via Carpenters Road North Junction)
Stabled near the west portal of the tunnel (assumed to be 9-car): 345028, 345045, 345046
Eastside: 345003 (7), 345006 (7), 345007 (7), 345009 (7), 345011 (7), 345012 (7), 345013 (7), 345014 (7), 345015 (7), 345016 (7), 345017 (7), 345022 (7), 345029 (9), 345038 (*), 345040 (9), 345044 (9), 345054 (9).
* I travelled on 038 from Stratford to Harold Wood, but I'm not sure whether this was a 7 or 9-car formation - if someone could confirm that would be really helpful, thanks.
 
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kevin_roche

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The Crossrail train planning rules are uploaded online (http://content.tfl.gov.uk/ttpr-2021.pdf) which include the headcode definitions for Crossrail/EL:

Interestingly, this documentation does not cover the 2X## headcodes described earlier in the thread as running in the East.

I suppose they have simply inherited the Class 315's headcodes, and are covered under "TfL Rail" rather than "Crossrail". I wonder whether the peak Liverpool Street High Level services will continue with 2X## after the COS opens?

I checked out the Anglia Timetable Planning Rules https://sacuksprodnrdigital0001.blob.core.windows.net/operational-rules/Operational Rules/TPR 2022/V4/TPR 2022 V4 AR.pdf for May 2022 and on page 9 they say:


So it seems to me that only trains that go into the COS will have a 9 prefix.
 

306024

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So it seems to me that only trains that go into the COS will have a 9 prefix.

That is correct for passenger trains. The easiest way to identify what goes into the tunnel.

As for the letters there aren’t too many to chose from without causing clashes on either the Great Eastern or the Great Western. Liverpool St (GE) to Gidea Park and Paddington (GW) to Heathrow etc remain class 2 as they don’t access the tunnel. Looking forward to travelling on 9Y99 ;)
 
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rebmcr

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306024

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Curious then, that there is a letter prefix for Paddington High Level in the XR doc, but not for Liverpool Street High Level.

Wouldn’t read too much into that, probably just an omission. The planners know what is needed without having to refer to the rules all the time.
 
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