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Class 345 progress

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samuelmorris

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Good progress being made on the high level platforms at Liverpool Street, very much an active building site as I came in today. It's interesting to watch the 345s reversing in the turnback just west of Stratford. I assume this will be retained in the event of core issues moving forward?
 
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306024

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Good progress being made on the high level platforms at Liverpool Street, very much an active building site as I came in today. It's interesting to watch the 345s reversing in the turnback just west of Stratford. I assume this will be retained in the event of core issues moving forward?
They reverse on the up or down electric line as necessary. Or just run to Liverpool St as there will be spare platform capacity and the trains will now fit. You don't want to be emptying peak trains at Stratford once the numbers build up again.
 

samuelmorris

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They reverse on the up or down electric line as necessary. Or just run to Liverpool St as there will be spare platform capacity and the trains will now fit. You don't want to be emptying peak trains at Stratford once the numbers build up again.
Given the reduction in platform count and increase in service frequency, is that likely to be achievable?
 

306024

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Given the reduction in platform count and increase in service frequency, is that likely to be achievable?
You would have to cancel the additional Gidea Park to Liverpool St trains, but mathematically Liverpool St could turn round 12 trains per hour off 2 platforms, which is the frequency of the trains going into the tunnel in the peak.

In practice that would be ambitious, and perhaps a slight thinning of the service would be necessary, but the time it would take to empty and reverse a service at Stratford would cause far more damage.
 

Gulf1159

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You would have to cancel the additional Gidea Park to Liverpool St trains, but mathematically Liverpool St could turn round 12 trains per hour off 2 platforms, which is the frequency of the trains going into the tunnel in the peak.

In practice that would be ambitious, and perhaps a slight thinning of the service would be necessary, but the time it would take to empty and reverse a service at Stratford would cause far more damage.

In the May timetable change the Gidea Park locals have been dramatically reduced ( only 4 am peak only) all services are all stations to Shenfield and at 5 minute intervals so with 3 platforms at Liverpool Street 15-17 there will be no problems if the core is closed for any reason
 

JonathanH

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It appears that 345063 was in service yesterday for the first time since its second restoration to 9-car formation.
1617876802809.png
[Picture shows a screen shot of output from TrackIt! with headcode '5I63' cancelled at berth C313 having returned to Old Oak Depot around 2335 on 7 April]

A unit, reported elsewhere to be 345038, is in transit from Old Oak Depot to Ilford at present.
0959 Old Oak Depot to Ilford E.M.U.D.
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K04502/2021-04-08/detailed
with another due to be returned to Old Oak Depot later
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K04503/2021-04-08/detailed
 

306024

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In the May timetable change the Gidea Park locals have been dramatically reduced ( only 4 am peak only) all services are all stations to Shenfield and at 5 minute intervals so with 3 platforms at Liverpool Street 15-17 there will be no problems if the core is closed for any reason
Assuming by the time the service goes into the core GA haven’t taken advantage of the spare platform capacity to ease out some of their tighter peak turnround times.
 

kevin_roche

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The Jacobs Report for Period 11 has been published on the TfL website. It has an interesting item on the start of phase 4A (running 9-Car trains on from Shenfield to Liverpool St High Level). https://content.tfl.gov.uk/project-representative-periodic-report-period-11-2020.pdf

Stage 4A Steering Group provided a ‘Go’ with identified risks for Stage 4A in [REDACTED]. MTRELwill operate the Stage 4A timetable to coincide with the [REDACTED], following a review of configuration options for start of service. Access for maintenance to Old Oak Common Depot through the Central Section will restrict initial passenger operations to 4 FLUs, and alternative rolling stock transfer arrangements are under investigation.

So it looks like the 9-Car Trains might use the Central Tunnels to get to Old Oak for maintenance. How often do they need to go there?
 
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Gulf1159

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The Jacobs Report for Period 11 has been published on the TfL website. It has an interesting item on the start of phase 4A (running 9-Car trains on from Shenfield to Liverpool St High Level). https://content.tfl.gov.uk/project-representative-periodic-report-period-11-2020.pdf



So it looks like the 9-Car Trains might use the Central Tunnels to get to Old Oak for maintenance. How often do they need to go there?

Phase 4a is due to start from the May 2021 timetable, 9 car (FLU) will be phased in and not all at once. At first they will replace the 315’s then the 7 car (RLU)
 

rebmcr

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The Jacobs Report for Period 11 has been published on the TfL website. It has an interesting item on the start of phase 4A (running 9-Car trains on from Shenfield to Liverpool St High Level). https://content.tfl.gov.uk/project-representative-periodic-report-period-11-2020.pdf



So it looks like the 9-Car Trains might use the Central Tunnels to get to Old Oak for maintenance. How often do they need to go there?
I can only assume that Ilford will at some point see reduced use during conversion to accept 9-car 345s? (Rather than complete abandonment by MTA once all the 7-cars are reformed).
 

JonathanH

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Phase 4a is due to start from the May 2021 timetable, 9 car (FLU) will be phased in and not all at once. At first they will replace the 315’s then the 7 car (RLU)
Replace the 315s directly (eg run peak only at first) or indirectly?
I can only assume that Ilford will at some point see reduced use during conversion to accept 9-car 345s? (Rather than complete abandonment by MTA once all the 7-cars are reformed).
If Old Oak Depot is the dedicated servicing facility for the fleet and with siding space at Shenfield, Aldersbrook and Gidea Park, does Ilford need to continue to have a role when Crossrail opens? How much extra capacity is needed for the 720 fleet?

Mind you, if it isn't going to have a continued role it raises even more questions about the 345018 mystery.
 

306024

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Ilford Car Sheds is where the drivers depot is so that will continue to be used, and there is insufficient stabling in the East without it. Aldersbrook sidings are not long enough for a 9 car 345.
 
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306024

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Does that mean they will fall into disuse given the length of the other trains on the Great Eastern lines?

GA could use them for any 5 car class 720 workings should they chose. Snag is they aren’t easy to access, can only be reached off the up main at Ilford. There is no signalled route from the London direction.
 

Bald Rick

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GA could use them for any 5 car class 720 workings should they chose. Snag is they aren’t easy to access, can only be reached off the up main at Ilford. There is no signalled route from the London direction.

Strictly speaking there is *only* a signalled route from the London direction. You just have to have come from Country first to get that signal!
 

306024

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Strictly speaking there is *only* a signalled route from the London direction. You just have to have come from Country first to get that signal!
Well yes! Many a person has lobbied for a signalled route from Forest Gate Jn over the years, all the necessary track is there, but no one could create a joined up business case.
 

Gulf1159

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Replace the 315s directly (eg run peak only at first) or indirectly?
If Old Oak Depot is the dedicated servicing facility for the fleet and with siding space at Shenfield, Aldersbrook and Gidea Park, does Ilford need to continue to have a role when Crossrail opens? How much extra capacity is needed for the 720 fleet?

Mind you, if it isn't going to have a continued role it raises even more questions about the 345018 mystery.

Several points/questions

1) when a 9 car unit comes to the east a 315 will be removed from service. It could Possibly be a 9 car will replace a 7 car which in turn replaces a 315. 315’s will all be gone by September 2021

2) OOC is the maintenance base for 345’s. Ilford will not be used for maintaining 9 cars as they are too long

3) MTR has 10 roads in the new sidings at Ilford depot that take 9 car units. Shenfield can only stable 3x9 car trains in the sidings. Gidea park can stable 8x9 car trains. Aldersbrook will be surplus to requirements once 315’s and 7 cars are replaced.

4) 345018 is a test unit and was originally delivered to Ilford so that 9 car trials could take place on the Liverpool Street to Shenfield line. Not used as yet but 9 car/ASDO trials start shortly
 

rebmcr

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OOC is the maintenance base for 345’s. Ilford will not be used for maintaining 9 cars as they are too long
Well then on behalf of GEML inner commuters, I hope there is never ever an extended closure of the central tunnels!
 

Gulf1159

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Well then on behalf of GEML inner commuters, I hope there is never ever an extended closure of the central tunnels!

Ilford does and can maintain 7 car units as they fit in both A shops and new shed. 9 car units are too long to be maintained at Ilford and if the central section is closed off topic loco will drag units to OOC as they do now
 

matt_world2004

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I would imagine short of a disaster the longest period the core will be closed would be for s fortnight over Christmas that should be enough for the maintenance regime of the class 345s
 

JonathanH

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It appears that last week's movement from Ilford to Old Oak Depot was 345017.
1618349821297.png
[Picture shows a screen shot of output from TrackIt! with headcode '5I17' reported at berth C315 moving around Old Oak Depot around 2200 on 13 April]

345038 is reported back in service on the east side still as a 7-car unit following its move on Thursday.

A picture of coach 340410 was shared elsewhere today travelling by road from Worksop to London but 345010 is still in service on the east side of London. Presumably there are a few centre cars parked up at Old Oak Depot waiting for their units?

Paths in place for a unit swap between Old Oak Depot and Ilford on Thursday this week.
0959 Old Oak Depot to Ilford E.M.U.D.
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K03967/2021-04-15/detailed
1503 Ilford E.M.U.D. to Old Oak Depot
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K03978/2021-04-15/detailed
 

Roger B

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I was at Bethnal Green yesterday for a couple of hours or so, and recorded 003. 006, 007, 008, 009, 010, 012, 013, 014, 015, 022, 038, 042 and 064 (all 7 cars) working.
 

alanc

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I was at Bethnal Green yesterday for a couple of hours or so, and recorded 003. 006, 007, 008, 009, 010, 012, 013, 014, 015, 022, 038, 042 and 064 (all 7 cars) working.
Alan

I was at Twyford for a couple of hours yesterday, saw 040, 044, 052, 061, 070 on Reading services plus 048 on 5G53, 002 on 5G58/59 and 020 on 5G78/79 (all 9 coaches)
 

Gulf1159

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It appears that last week's movement from Ilford to Old Oak Depot was 345017.
View attachment 94340
[Picture shows a screen shot of output from TrackIt! with headcode '5I17' reported at berth C315 moving around Old Oak Depot around 2200 on 13 April]

345038 is reported back in service on the east side still as a 7-car unit following its move on Thursday.

A picture of coach 340410 was shared elsewhere today travelling by road from Worksop to London but 345010 is still in service on the east side of London. Presumably there are a few centre cars parked up at Old Oak Depot waiting for their units?

Paths in place for a unit swap between Old Oak Depot and Ilford on Thursday this week.
0959 Old Oak Depot to Ilford E.M.U.D.
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K03967/2021-04-15/detailed
1503 Ilford E.M.U.D. to Old Oak Depot
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K03978/2021-04-15/detailed

There is a 9 car test train booked to run on 16 April on the east. Not sure what state 345018 is in as its not been moved in ages. Whether it’s a maintenance move or associated with the above.
 

Peter Sarf

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Alan

I was at Twyford for a couple of hours yesterday, saw 040, 044, 052, 061, 070 on Reading services plus 048 on 5G53, 002 on 5G58/59 and 020 on 5G78/79 (all 9 coaches)
I was at Iver yesterday afternoon-evening and additionally saw 345058 a few times. Did not see 345048 however.
 
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