Class 707 to Southeastern Dates

[03_179]

I've done a search but can't see an answer.

Has there been a date stated yet when the 707s will (or if) to Southeastern ?

Thanks in advance,

 

[ScotGG]

No word on what's happening to the 466s yet is there?

This project is a bit confusing. Five/ten car trains on a network that saw platform extensions for 12 cars seems odd at first even accounting for increased capacity over a 10-car 465 (though not a 12 car 465/466?) so is the plan for many more 12 car networker journeys even though they can't stop at half of Charing Cross and other spots on the network? How will it work?

 

[Domh245]

No dates have been published yet, it's all dependant on SWR introducing the 701s for which there isn't a concrete date either

 

[03_179]

Thanks.

As a side question. SE have been given a direct award to run Southeastern .. Until when ?

 

[Domh245]

Thanks.

As a side question. SE have been given a direct award to run Southeastern .. Until when ?

The direct award originally ran until October 2021 with an option until March 2022, but the introduction of EMAs following COVID, as well as the consensus that the Williams review reforms ('the end of franchising as we know it') has significantly muddied the water!

 

[03_179]

Thanks.

I was hoping that they'd be over on SE before the franchise ended.

 

[Energy]

It shouldn't be too long until they start leaving SWR, they are the first to leave and 701s have started deliveries and tests. Still be a while as SE will need to train its staff.

 

[03_179]

Thanks

 

[Wyrleybart]

No word on what's happening to the 466s yet is there?

This project is a bit confusing. Five/ten car trains on a network that saw platform extensions for 12 cars seems odd at first even accounting for increased capacity over a 10-car 465 (though not a 12 car 465/466?) so is the plan for many more 12 car networker journeys even though they can't stop at half of Charing Cross and other spots on the network? How will it work?

Is there a difference in vehicle lengths ? A lot of the older SR stock was 20m bodyshells, but are the 707s also 20m bodyshells ?

 

[pompeyfan]

It shouldn't be too long until they start leaving SWR, they are the first to leave and 701s have started deliveries and tests. Still be a while as SE will need to train its staff.

I don’t that’s correct. I’m led to believe the 458s will be leaving first due to their serious reliability issues. The Reading line is the first line to have 701s.

 

[Energy]

I don’t that’s correct. I’m led to believe the 458s will be leaving first due to their serious reliability issues. The Reading line is the first line to have 701s.

458s are now fairly reliable, I believe they are coming of the reading line and going to displace the 707s.

 

[pompeyfan]

458s are now fairly reliable, I believe they are coming of the reading line and going to displace the 707s.

With respect, they are really struggling with reliability.

 

[Energy]

With respect, they are really struggling with reliability.

They are much better than what they used to be.

 

[43096]

With respect, they are really struggling with reliability.

Which is likely down to SWR’s “scorched earth” approach to maintenance and the usual fleet leaving, don’t maintain them attitude (as demonstrated by Virgin West Coast, among others).

 

[dlj83]

What routes are they likely to work on for Southeastern?

 

[ijmad]

What routes are they likely to work on for Southeastern?

Probably metro given the seat configuration and lack of toilets

 

[py_megapixel]

Probably metro given the seat configuration and lack of toilets

I'm inclined to agree, given that the Desiro City seems to be designed for exactly the same purpose as the SE metro 376s.

 

[urpert]

Fingers firmly crossed that they come to the Hayes line. The air con would make quite a welcome change!

 

[Murray J]

Also would they be put into the livery currently on the 375s/377s/395s?

 

[urpert]

Also would they be put into the livery currently on the 375s/377s/395s?

I reckon a Southeastern sticker will be the full extent of any livery changes. It’s a bare minimum kind of franchise.

 

[Energy]

It’s a bare minimum kind of franchise.

Its more that the branding may only be there for a couple years, not because it is SE.

 

[DorkingMain]

707s will be the last train to depart from SWR (an extension has been signed on their lease).

Due to the poor state of the 458s, they are now planned to be the first trains replaced - hence the choice to introduce 701s first on the Reading line.

 

[Energy]

707s will be the last train to depart from SWR (an extension has been signed on their lease).

Do you have a source on this? I thought they would be the first due to having another operator ready for them.

 

[43096]

Due to the poor state of the 458s, they are now planned to be the first trains replaced - hence the choice to introduce 701s first on the Reading line.

They’ll need to get them into a better state before they go or it will be very expensive on handback.

 

[brad465]

707s will be the last train to depart from SWR (an extension has been signed on their lease).

Due to the poor state of the 458s, they are now planned to be the first trains replaced - hence the choice to introduce 701s first on the Reading line.

Do you have a source on this? I thought they would be the first due to having another operator ready for them.

An extension to the lease would be a good opportunity for SE and Network rail to get the storage space issue sorted out in time for their arrival.

If this extension is for at least another year from now it's possible the current franchise won't use 707s if no further extension is granted, given the end date is currently October 2021 (with April 2022 option) and when 707s are released, driver training still has to be completed.

 

[Goldfish62]

They are much better than what they used to be.

Really? In the last Modern Railways fleet survey published in the January issue they were SWR's most unreliable units.

 

[rebmcr]

Really? In the last Modern Railways fleet survey published in the January issue they were SWR's most unreliable units.

OK but that's almost ten months ago (if the data was from the month before publication and the Jan issue is published in Dec, like most magazines).

 

[Goldfish62]

OK but that's almost ten months ago (if the data was from the month before publication and the Jan issue is published in Dec, like most magazines).

Do you happen to know what the MAA MTIN is now (moving annual average - miles per technical incident)?

 

[DorkingMain]

Do you have a source on this? I thought they would be the first due to having another operator ready for them.

I don't want to give away too much about who I am for obvious reasons, but I have this on reliable authority.

Really? In the last Modern Railways fleet survey published in the January issue they were SWR's most unreliable units.

This is correct.

 

[Wyrleybart]

Really? In the last Modern Railways fleet survey published in the January issue they were SWR's most unreliable units.

Pretty amazing how the unloved 458s were threatened with being parked up because they were so poor. A stay of execution occurred and they Siemensised and allegedly became the best DC trains ever (well nearly !!).
Al of a sudden, a change of franchise and they become the most unreliable again.

What are we to believe ?
Where's Captain Deltic when we need him >