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Class 707 to Southeastern Dates
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CoastlinerEast
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https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G68239/2021-01-29/detailedP Im assuming this is a 707 move?
Goldfish62
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Modem Railways states that the first handful of units are moving purely for staff familiarisation and SWR will hold on to the rest until they no longer need them, still scheduled to be the last units after the 458s, 455s and 456s to be withdrawn.
Matthew Taylor
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No, 5R00 has been there for a long time which is a 375 move, and only runs as required. Look out for 5Qxx moves for 707s.
charley_17/7
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Not sure if this has been posted already, but they are going to Gillingham to be wrapped in blue SE vinyls.
Goldfish62
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I was about to post this myself!
brad465
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Could it be possible that was there before anyway in case a 376 ended up there for some reason? I know they can do Gravesend services, where some of those services originate from empty stock moves from Gillingham, and may sometimes be a 376 or two?
py_megapixel
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I wonder if that's just there in case a 376 ends up there. There are stop markers for all kinds of units you wouldn't usually expect in various places, presumably because a stop marker is so cheap and it would be stupid if management had to say "We have a train to run this service which we thought we'd have to cancel, but we can't run it for lack of a small metal plate at Gillingham"
As I understand it, the 707s won't operate anything longer than the 376s owing to the lack of toilets anyway.
Chiltern006
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didn't 376s do the Charing x to Gillingham service pre may 2018?
brad465
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It was certainly possible to find 376s on a Higham terminator in 2004 while the Higham-Strood tunnel was shut, but I'm unaware of any going to Gillingham in passenger service.
Gillingham has had a 5-8 stop car mark installed on the down main. But I wouldn't read too much into that. There has been periodical work at a number of stations to 'tidy up' the stop car markers. 376s have definitely been as far as Strood in passenger service a number of times when there has been engineering works and then shunted back over to the up. Don't recall one going as far as Gillingham - very rare if it did happen.
Hawkwood Junc
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Spotted a 707 stopped just to the south of Chislehurst Junction today. They’re out and about!
traji00
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I wonder if it was done by an enthusiast or by depot staff?Meanwhile at Waterloo earlier, I noticed this scribble on 707020
(in the dirt, someone has written “Off To South Eastern”)
Realtime Trains - 5Q20 0855 Grove Park C.S.D. to Orpington
Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.
www.realtimetrains.co.uk
Realtime Trains - 5Q21 1249 Orpington to Grove Park C.S.D.
Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.
www.realtimetrains.co.uk
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Why are they in a poor state?
They have recently been rebuilt and refurbished around 4 years ago unless FG reputation for maintaining and cleaning has kicked in since then
Goldfish62
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Despite some comments on this forum to the contrary the cleaning of these units is fine, actually better than under SWT.
They remain SWR's most unreliable units, as they were under SWT.
Nicholas Lewis
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In 2016 the class won Silver at the Golden Spanner awards for most improved fleet but clearly gone backwards since then
Goldfish62
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Most improved. It's all relative and in this case the class moved from very poor reliability to just poor. The 458s have never been since the 5-car conversion.
Nicholas Lewis
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Well in 2020 awards they went down from 22k to 18k per incident the 455's were at 29k by comparison. Plenty more 1st Gen EMU's were below the 458's so hardly rubbish to see them just scrapped.
They are way past their best if you have to work with everyday. They are going to be baked bean cans and washing machines soon enough. No amount of arguments here will change that.
Goldfish62
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Did I miss the post suggesting they be scrapped?
If they're not being leased and used with SWR, I don't see them having much future other than scrap. The market for 100m, 75mph, third rail, (not overly reliable) EMUS doesn't really exist
Nicholas Lewis
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Put some batteries under them and Southern can have them for the Uckfield line so 171s can be released.
Unfortunately they are unique fleet outside of 334's and not sure they can be readily converted to AC operation without a major rebuild of one carriage to carry pantograph well. Personally SWR should never been allowed to go 701 route and even now i would reassign the 701's to SE to replace networkers and told SWR to use what they have, including 707's, as Stagecoach proposed.
Precisely. If theres no market for a fleet of AC 4/5 car 332 built at a very similar time then there's no market for a knackered DC only fleet. The only current place/stock requirement that was left to fill in 3rd rail land has been taken by the 707 going to SE.
Nicholas Lewis
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DofT can create a market by how it decides to run things. BR wouldn't have junked them that easily but then they have no funds to build the level of new stock they desired hence why hand me downs to the North became the norm. So if treasury squeeze DofT they will be required to rethink there approach. They have relied upon franchises taking on the lease liabilities to keep costs off govt books im not sure this works in a concession model so in long run all these liabilities will end up back on govt books.
The counter argument is borrowing money is so cheap that the leasing companies maybe prepared to invest in new fleets as long as govt underpins the revenue stream long enough for them to cover there costs. Of course if it was France Bombardier(aka Alstom soon) would have a 10 year framework for Aventras, Hitachi same for Azumas and CAF can do DMUs spreads the work around the regions.
I don't see why the Networkers would have merited replacement ahead of the 455s! The 701 order for SWR made complete sense before March 2020, the only real negative was the 30 707s being made homeless but even that has now been sorted. It's a matter for another thread though!
The 332s are a whole other kettle of fish compared to the 458s. The lack of TPWS, small number of them, and CAF build quality all played against them to the point that scrap was the only sensible option post retirement. The 458s could quite happily go to another home and see out another decade or two, the problem is that there's nowhere suitable for them - they're much less knackered than the 332s were.
Goldfish62
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We've been through this so many times in various threads on this forum.
The ITT specified minimum capacities and maximum dwell times at stations that could not be achieved with the existing mixed fleet.
The 707s have found a new home, just like cascading of units under BR. The 455/456s have had a full operational life of close to 40 years and if the 458s also go for scrap it won't be the first time trains have been prematurely withdrawn. It happened many times under BR.
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