Class 745 Stadler FLIRTs

[dk1]

It was actually nice to see things almost like normal with things open, guards walking the train and such

As I have said in the 755 threD also, they do make a short trip into a nice settled journey, very comfortable and quiet when you sit down
yet to take a longer trip on them mainly just hop on and offs before with a child in a buggy so have got familiar with the vestibules

Yes ticket checks also being done on a voluntary basis by guards until next week. Pleasing to see most going through again now. Yes, excellent units. We are so lucky here in East Anglia to have them.

 

[trebor79]

Catering resumed on a staff voluntary basis on 12th April. So many staff & reduced timetable so most trains are covered with buffet &/or trolley too. Full resumption from next week.

Hooray. Looking forward to my morning porridge again when I start having to visit the smoke.

Yes ticket checks also being done on a voluntary basis by guards until next week. Pleasing to see most going through again now. Yes, excellent units. We are so lucky here in East Anglia to have them.

They are lovely trains from a passenger POV and I bet they're fun and comfortable to drive too.

 

[Astro_Orbiter]

The rumour is GA want to modify the stanex units with 1st class for use on Norwich and use 720's on stanex. Anyone know anything?

 

[trebor79]

The rumour is GA want to modify the stanex units with 1st class for use on Norwich and use 720's on stanex. Anyone know anything?

The first bit makes sense. There's very little difference in seating capacity on he 745 variants, although the /1's have more luggage capacity though that's probably not going to be much of an issue for a few years at least. I would have thought it's a very expensive job though, they have completely different layouts, and fitting the buffet wouldn't be trivial either.

 

[Grumbler]

The first bit makes sense. There's very little difference in seating capacity on he 745 variants, although the /1's have more luggage capacity though that's probably not going to be much of an issue for a few years at least. I would have thought it's a very expensive job though, they have completely different layouts, and fitting the buffet wouldn't be trivial either.

Would it be possible to get more of these excellent units by ordering more buffet half-units from Stadler and splitting some of the Stanex units?
(BTW what is the correct term for a half-unit? Halfit?)

 

[trebor79]

I have no idea about the technical feasibility of it. But either way it's going to be very expensive to refurb nearly new trains or have a small add-on order (and what do you do with the half-sets removed?). I think what might actually happen is continuation of the status quo, or some of the Stanex being done by 720s with some 745/1s permanently on the Norwich. That would mean that at least the timetable could be constructed to show which trains will definitely have first class and buffet, and allow catering via trolley for the others.
At the moment it's total pot luck what turns up, and equally we have 745/0s running Stanex at times which is just silly (I understand why it happens, but from a passenger POV it's silly).

 

[Bletchleyite]

The rumour is GA want to modify the stanex units with 1st class for use on Norwich and use 720's on stanex. Anyone know anything?

I do hope so, I've thought this should happen from the start. Otherwise there aren't enough IC units.

I have no idea about the technical feasibility of it. But either way it's going to be very expensive to refurb nearly new trains

Is it? It's not a refurb, it's swapping the seats, rejigging the reservation screens and adding a (presumably modular) buffet. Would give a stock of FISA LEANs as spares, too.

FWIW I think ordering two types was silly. They could always have peddled First Class tickets on StanEx for say a £5-10 upgrade, and just left the buffet closed.

 

[AndyHA]

I returned yesterday ,Tuesday 11th-May-2021 from Tottenham Hale to Bishop’s Stortford on the 1609 hrs departure from Tottenham Hale . It was formed by “Norwich” set 745003 .

 

[trebor79]

Is it? It's not a refurb, it's swapping the seats, rejigging the reservation screens and adding a (presumably modular) buffet. Would give a stock of FISA LEANs as spares, too.

FWIW I think ordering two types was silly. They could always have peddled First Class tickets on StanEx for say a £5-10 upgrade, and just left the buffet closed.

I think in the original thread about 745 construction and introduction there were some "issues" with designing and fitting the buffet, so there might be structural mods to do. I'm not really sure. Remember also there are quite a lot of table bays in the 745/0s (I don't think there are any in a 745/1), and with USB and 3 pin power at every seat pair there's significant wiring mods required too.
At a time when railway costs are undoubtedly under scrutiny, I can't imagine going to the DfT/treasury with the begging bowl to fund a refurb for 18 month old trains is going to go down too well.

Completely agree with your second point, it really doesn't make any sense. It may have been driven by a desire to provide extra luggage space for the Stanex units which then required a denser seating layout to compensate - perhaps No. of seats was a franchise committment.
But from a real world POV, it's a little bit silly and clearly it has proved extremely difficult in practice to make sure the correct sub-fleet is used on the correct service.

 

[ashkeba]

I think what might actually happen is continuation of the status quo, or some of the Stanex being done by 720s with some 745/1s permanently on the Norwich. That would mean that at least the timetable could be constructed to show which trains will definitely have first class and buffet, and allow catering via trolley for the others.

It would also allow the extra 12 bike spaces (used as large luggage bays) on Stanex trains running to Norwich to be reservable. Running some Stanexes offpeak to Cambridge would be good for the bike capacity too.

 

[Grumbler]

I have no idea about the technical feasibility of it. But either way it's going to be very expensive to refurb nearly new trains or have a small add-on order (and what do you do with the half-sets removed?). I think what might actually happen is continuation of the status quo, or some of the Stanex being done by 720s with some 745/1s permanently on the Norwich. That would mean that at least the timetable could be constructed to show which trains will definitely have first class and buffet, and allow catering via trolley for the others.
At the moment it's total pot luck what turns up, and equally we have 745/0s running Stanex at times which is just silly (I understand why it happens, but from a passenger POV it's silly).

The half-sets removed would be used to increase the fleet size (I envsage a third sublass - one half a Stanex, the other half an A to F portion of a Norwich). However this is unlikely to be economically feasible.

I agree with you completely about making it clear in the TT which services have first class and a buffet. If not GA should stop selling first class tickets before boarding but charge a supplement to travel first. Otherwise they will be forever issuing refunds to pax with first class tickets when the train is standard class only.

 

[RailWonderer]

I can't imagine going to the DfT/treasury with the begging bowl to fund a refurb for 18 month old trains is going to go down too well.

This is exactly it, the railway is such a different environment to a few years ago before the DfT took over financing desicions and until GA's finances improve with season tickets being purchased I can't see them willing to finance it themselves.

Completely agree with your second point, it really doesn't make any sense. It may have been driven by a desire to provide extra luggage space for the Stanex units which then required a denser seating layout to compensate - perhaps No. of seats was a franchise committment.
But from a real world POV, it's a little bit silly and clearly it has proved extremely difficult in practice to make sure the correct sub-fleet is used on the correct service.

We all agreed it was silly and what Bletchleyite suggested was concluded to when the trains were being delivered. The bid team were businessmen not railwaymen and weren't aware of some operational realities. For that matter I saw a sign at Norwich last week near the entrance saying some of the new trains will be ones with no first class and to check before travelling, and a picture of a 720 on the poster. It seems GA is saying don't expect first, to be honest the whole situation is a mess, retrofitting first on StanEx 745s is definitely the way to go. A 720 conversion to StanEx in the style of the class 387 HeX refurbishment makes sense also.

I took 745 107 with no trolley or buffet, then caught 006 with both. If we have at least a trolley and first with tables at all seats it would provide more consistency for the IC offering.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Remember also there are quite a lot of table bays in the 745/0s (I don't think there are any in a 745/1), and with USB and 3 pin power at every seat pair there's significant wiring mods required too.

Having been on both types, I'm fairly sure the seat layout is the same and it's only the lack of tables in the 745/1s that makes a real difference in Standard. There would obviously be more work to do to create the first class area.

Having said that, I actually prefer travelling on the /1s precisely because the bays don't have tables in them...

 

[Peter Sarf]

I do hope so, I've thought this should happen from the start. Otherwise there aren't enough IC units.



Is it? It's not a refurb, it's swapping the seats, rejigging the reservation screens and adding a (presumably modular) buffet. Would give a stock of FISA LEANs as spares, too.

FWIW I think ordering two types was silly. They could always have peddled First Class tickets on StanEx for say a £5-10 upgrade, and just left the buffet closed.

I can imagine that the only necessary work required to create first class is to put signs in the windows etc . After all there seem to already be instances of first class not being that much different from standard class, especially comparing different types of train/unit.

 

[Wivenswold]

Makes perfect sense. Footfall at Stansted will recover but not to pre-pandemic levels. Flights are not expected to recover and the days of low cost flights is coming to an end. A 5 car Aventra will likely do the trick for quite a while.

They only require 2 more to cover all Norwich diagrams though and one as a spare. Once again I'm starting to hope that the remaining Stadlers can be upgraded with First and used on express commuter runs to Ipswich and Clacton.

Anyway, back to reality.

 

[Alfie1014]

Cal world the Makes perfect sense. Footfall at Stansted will recover but not to pre-pandemic levels. Flights are not expected to recover and the days of low cost flights is coming to an end. A 5 car Aventra will likely do the trick for quite a while.

They only require 2 more to cover all Norwich diagrams though and one as a spare. Once again I'm starting to hope that the remaining Stadlers can be upgraded with First and used on express commuter runs to Ipswich and Clacton.

Anyway, back to reality.

In your(our) dreams! 20 units for 10-11 diagrams does make you wonder what they could do with the remaining sets? I’ll believe it when I see it.

I do wonder if there is any ‘traction’ in this rumour is because the 745s on the Stansteds have been a bit of performance disaster and it’s such a pain to get them back to Crown Point for sorting out, seems to be an almost daily occurrence that one fails somewhere on WA. Plus post COVID GA has simply got too many trains, in a logical world the last 10 GA 720s could be diverted to c2c but as they are financed by different ROSCOs that’s not going to happen.

 

[dk1]

In your(our) dreams! 20 units for 10-11 diagrams does make you wonder what they could do with the remaining sets? I’ll believe it when I see it.

I do wonder if there is any ‘traction’ in this rumour is because the 745s on the Stansteds have been a bit of performance disaster and it’s such a pain to get them back to Crown Point for sorting out, seems to be an almost daily occurrence that one fails somewhere on WA. Plus post COVID GA has simply got too many trains, in a logical world the last 10 GA 720s could be diverted to c2c but as they are financed by different ROSCOs that’s not going to happen.

But you mention diverting them to another TOC but remember Crown Point depot has already had over £40million worth of alterations to accommodate these trains with even more to do there. Because much of the equipment is above rather than below, maintenance cant just be done easily anywhere.

 

[Bletchleyite]

But you mention diverting them to another TOC but remember Crown Point depot has already had over £40million worth of alterations to accommodate these trains with even more to do there. Because much of the equipment is above rather than below, maintenance cant just be done easily anywhere.

C2C are already getting Aventras, aren't they? So the work will be done there too.

 

[dk1]

C2C are already getting Aventras, aren't they? So the work will be done there too.

My apologies. I read that as the last 10 GA 745s

 

[Abbo]

Not reqally a reply but I still don't know how to start a new thread. Sorry !

I hear that today a 755/3 worked from LST to NRW possibly on the 0830 down so would it be a fair assumption tat they are now passed for passenger service south of Marks Tey ?

 

[zebedee104]

Not reqally a reply but I still don't know how to start a new thread. Sorry !

I hear that today a 755/3 worked from LST to NRW possibly on the 0830 down so would it be a fair assumption tat they are now passed for passenger service south of Marks Tey ?

One worked back from Liverpool St to Norwich at 10.30. We saw it at Stratford as we waiting for the Southend train behind it. It looked pretty full and had people in the vestibules.

 

[dk1]

Not reqally a reply but I still don't know how to start a new thread. Sorry !

I hear that today a 755/3 worked from LST to NRW possibly on the 0830 down so would it be a fair assumption tat they are now passed for passenger service south of Marks Tey ?

Have been for ages. I thought it was a 755/4 but may be wrong. It was on the 08:00up/10:30dn.

 

[zebedee104]

Yes, it was a 755/4 today.

 

[dk1]

Yes, it was a 755/4 today.

Rumours of the train being F&S which is probably true as getting so busy now but passengers do often exaggerate these things via Twatter.

 

[colchesterken]

They will need a couple of extra trains if they ever bring back N I 90. They needed to order 15 sets to do the inter cities
Any one remember the fleet built for the Clacton electrics the 309s Buffet car and proper 1st class. How times change

 

[dk1]

They will need a couple of extra trains if they ever bring back N I 90. They needed to order 15 sets to do the inter cities
Any one remember the fleet built for the Clacton electrics the 309s Buffet car and proper 1st class. How times change

Ni90 was always planned to be 2x755 no 1st no catering.

 

[mtmikethom]

I saw a 745 (I think it was 103) at Manningtree around lunchtime today towed by a 37 looked to be heading towards Harwich (failure perhaps?)

 

[Shunter_69]

I saw a 745 (I think it was 103) at Manningtree around lunchtime today towed by a 37 looked to be heading towards Harwich (failure perhaps?)

Could it have been a positioning move due to the engineering works this weekend?

 

[Shwam3]

745103 failed at Ponders End on 1B26 (0755 Liv St - Stansted) this morning and was dragged straight to Parkeston as 5A03.

 

[mtmikethom]

Aha, Now if 745’s were Human that would be tad embarrassing for a 2 year old unit to be towed by a 60 or so years old Loco! Mind I sometimes get out of the bed on the wrong side which can be painful considering the brick wall