Class 810 for East Midlands Railway Construction/Introduction Updates

[AM9]

Not much, and effectively none in the peak. I posted the numbers in a thread somewhere, but can’t find them. It’s about a minute south of Luton, and another couple Luton - Bedford, assuming there’s no pathing time (which there is in the peak, lots).

I can’t help but think there is an easy solution to this.

But it won't please those using EWR services who 'need' to get to London 2.5 minutes quicker.

 

[Bald Rick]

But it won't please those using EWR services who 'need' to get to London 2.5 minutes quicker.

Agreed. And there has been some very early running the last few days, albeit then to come to a stand at TWH 200 waiting platform (as is happening right now).

 

[43066]

Agreed. And there has been some very early running the last few days, albeit then to come to a stand at TWH 200 waiting platform (as is happening right now).

Ha! That is a particularly irritating signal. Arriving at it at -7 or better is doable at the moment after a barnstorming run.

Platform Tetris dictates whether you’re allowed in a few minutes early, or kept outside until just before booked. Ex Corby and Ex Notts stoppers less susceptible as they tend to go straight back out.

 

[Master29]

Do they? They appear to have normal First Class spacing to me, and on the 1 side it is quite poor as they have been unable to resist the temptation to squash in an extra row.



That doesn't bode well at all, particularly as the FISA LEAN is a much thicker-backed seat than the Fainsa Sophia (the use of which is why the legroom on other 80x is so good).

I'm getting the feeling I won't like these

Agreed. The first class areas on 800's are a little claustrophobic to me so not expecting a better quality of first on the 810. I find standard OK on 800's but this may change now with what Pacerman99 has revealed. Hopefully it's just speculation at this stage.

 

[Bald Rick]

Ha! That is a particularly irritating signal. Arriving at it at -7 or better is doable at the moment after a barnstorming run.

Platform Tetris dictates whether you’re allowed in a few minutes early, or kept outside until just before booked. Ex Corby and Ex Notts stoppers less susceptible as they tend to go straight back out.

Particularly annoying when you can see 3 empty platforms, but the one you are booked in has a train waiting departure. And you know you can’t go into one of the others as it will mess up the platforming plan later.

 

[Roast Veg]

Just one extra platform would be nice...

 

[Bald Rick]

Just one extra platform would be nice...

When the new fleet comes along - as per the subject of this thread - platforming becomes much easier.

 

[hexagon789]

When the new fleet comes along - as per the subject of this thread - platforming becomes much easier.

Less splitting/combining?

 

[Pacerman99]

Do they? They appear to have normal First Class spacing to me, and on the 1 side it is quite poor as they have been unable to resist the temptation to squash in an extra row.



That doesn't bode well at all, particularly as the FISA LEAN is a much thicker-backed seat than the Fainsa Sophia (the use of which is why the legroom on other 80x is so good).

I'm getting the feeling I won't like these

I believe the spacing in first will be more similar to one of the GA FLIRTs. I've done some back-of-fag packet calculations and the first class pitch in these can't be more than about 900mm to accomodate kitchen, wheelchair spaces in the driving car as well as the quoted amount of standard seats in the composite coach. That certainly isn't bad, but not as good as the 1m or so allocated per first class seat in the 800s. The drawings for the 745s seem to show the standard seat pitch for them in the unidirectional seats is less than 800mm, so the pitch shouldn't be worse than a flirt.

 

[DDB]

Less splitting/combining?

Apart from the Corby electric services (the plan was for those to have their own dedicated platform, no doubt with lots of Luton Airport Branding/Sinage) all the stock on the other three platforms will be identical so easier to swap around on the fly as required unlike the mix of HSTs of 2 different lengths and meridians of 3? different lengths.

There will be 10 car vs 5 car to deal with but the 10 cars are 2 5 cars joined together so with splitting combing they can be switched around as well.

 

[edwin_m]

Less splitting/combining?

All 810 units will be 5-car but the 10-car units may stay coupled together all day, as the journey times out to Nottingham/Sheffield suggest the same diagrams working towards London in the morning peak could be working out again in the evening.

In the timetable of the last few years the Nottingham fast was an HST but all the other services were Meridians of one sort or another. The timings also meant that the HST had almost an hour at St Pancras, and even longer when the timetable was adjusted to make room for Thameslink. So it was always occupying one platform, plus a second for a period each hour. This should be eliminated with the 810s, either by interworking the Nottinghams with other services that use the same units, or perhaps by adjustment so the turnaround time is less.

 

[Domh245]

All 810 units will be 5-car but the 10-car units may stay coupled together all day, as the journey times out to Nottingham/Sheffield suggest the same diagrams working towards London in the morning peak could be working out again in the evening.

In the timetable of the last few years the Nottingham fast was an HST but all the other services were Meridians of one sort or another. The timings also meant that the HST had almost an hour at St Pancras, and even longer when the timetable was adjusted to make room for Thameslink. So it was always occupying one platform, plus a second for a period each hour. This should be eliminated with the 810s, either by interworking the Nottinghams with other services that use the same units, or perhaps by adjustment so the turnaround time is less.

Agreed, that having the common fleet will be where most of the easing comes from, but surely that mostly applies from this May, rather than 810 introduction?

 

[Bald Rick]

Agreed, that having the common fleet will be where most of the easing comes from, but surely that mostly applies from this May, rather than 810 introduction?

It will be easier form this May, but you still have the various different lengths of meridians to deal with. Plus the 180s.

 

[43096]

Plus the 180s.

Assuming they make it to St. Pancras in the first place!

 

[edwin_m]

Agreed, that having the common fleet will be where most of the easing comes from, but surely that mostly applies from this May, rather than 810 introduction?

It will be easier form this May, but you still have the various different lengths of meridians to deal with. Plus the 180s.

They have to make it work from May to make room for the extra Corby service, so I would expect the Nottingham fast to get a shorter turnaround and/or interwork with something else (has the new timetable been published yet?). I assume Corbies will pretty much have a dedicated platform.

 

[91103eastcoast]

Looking at Realtimetrains for 15th June, pretty much all of the Corby trains appear to be using Platform 1, except the Melton Mowbray extensions

 

[swt_passenger]

They have to make it work from May to make room for the extra Corby service, so I would expect the Nottingham fast to get a shorter turnaround and/or interwork with something else (has the new timetable been published yet?). I assume Corbies will pretty much have a dedicated platform.

Corby services (except the extensions via Melton) have been showing as booked P1 all day since they first appeared in RTT. But here’s the arrivals, departures looks the same:

Realtime Trains - Departures from St Pancras International

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[43096]

They have to make it work from May to make room for the extra Corby service, so I would expect the Nottingham fast to get a shorter turnaround and/or interwork with something else (has the new timetable been published yet?). I assume Corbies will pretty much have a dedicated platform.

The Nottingham fasts now interwork with the other diagrams, which is the only realistic way to shorten the turnround times. It also means they need fewer sets.

One thing I hadn't appreciated is that it appears the East Mids Parkway call in the Nottingham fast has been shuffled into the Nottingham semi-fast, presumably to accommodate the Kettering call in the fast. This does mean there is now a non-stop Leicester to Nottingham service.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Just one extra platform would be nice...

That's probably the operators' view of the 10-platform HS2 idea at Euston, too...

 

[hexagon789]

Apart from the Corby electric services (the plan was for those to have their own dedicated platform, no doubt with lots of Luton Airport Branding/Sinage) all the stock on the other three platforms will be identical so easier to swap around on the fly as required unlike the mix of HSTs of 2 different lengths and meridians of 3? different lengths.

There will be 10 car vs 5 car to deal with but the 10 cars are 2 5 cars joined together so with splitting combing they can be switched around as well.

Oh I see, in times of disruption or late running there will be the ability to simply swap sets' diagrams rather than having to stick with a specific booked length/type of train as before.

All 810 units will be 5-car but the 10-car units may stay coupled together all day, as the journey times out to Nottingham/Sheffield suggest the same diagrams working towards London in the morning peak could be working out again in the evening.

In the timetable of the last few years the Nottingham fast was an HST but all the other services were Meridians of one sort or another. The timings also meant that the HST had almost an hour at St Pancras, and even longer when the timetable was adjusted to make room for Thameslink. So it was always occupying one platform, plus a second for a period each hour. This should be eliminated with the 810s, either by interworking the Nottinghams with other services that use the same units, or perhaps by adjustment so the turnaround time is less.

So perhaps better to say no need to split/combine coupled with a reduction in the turnaround time reducing platform occupations which then allows more scope for trains to run into St Pancras without being held on approach awaiting a platform

 

[43055]

The Nottingham fasts now interwork with the other diagrams, which is the only realistic way to shorten the turnround times. It also means they need fewer sets.

One thing I hadn't appreciated is that it appears the East Mids Parkway call in the Nottingham fast has been shuffled into the Nottingham semi-fast, presumably to accommodate the Kettering call in the fast. This does mean there is now a non-stop Leicester to Nottingham service.

Yes the Nottingham Fast will be non stop from Leicester but I think it is more about creating a fast and a semi fast service out of the stops that are left. Personally I think it will be better as the departures from Parkway and London are now more spread out rather than being a few mins apart.

They have to make it work from May to make room for the extra Corby service, so I would expect the Nottingham fast to get a shorter turnaround and/or interwork with something else (has the new timetable been published yet?). I assume Corbies will pretty much have a dedicated platform.

The Corby 360's will have platform 1 and the 222's and 180's have 2 to 4. Most turnarounds look to be around 30-40 mins with some sharing platforms when they don't divide or join.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I believe the spacing in first will be more similar to one of the GA FLIRTs. I've done some back-of-fag packet calculations and the first class pitch in these can't be more than about 900mm to accomodate kitchen, wheelchair spaces in the driving car as well as the quoted amount of standard seats in the composite coach. That certainly isn't bad, but not as good as the 1m or so allocated per first class seat in the 800s. The drawings for the 745s seem to show the standard seat pitch for them in the unidirectional seats is less than 800mm, so the pitch shouldn't be worse than a flirt.

The unidirectional seats in the FLIRTs are a bit tight, though not awfully so, FWIW.

 

[Ethan1852]

The first shell has been spotted moving around at the Hitachi Factory

 

[Jozhua]

The first shell has been spotted moving around at the Hitachi Factory

Nice! I'm gonna guess it'll be another year before the units have been produced fully? Or will it be faster now design stage is done?

Then probably a few months for testing, before the fleet gets gradually rolled out probably late next year-ish?

 

[Ethan1852]

Nice! I'm gonna guess it'll be another year before the units have been produced fully? Or will it be faster now design stage is done?

Then probably a few months for testing, before the fleet gets gradually rolled out probably late next year-ish?

From what I've heard 1 unit will be completed by end of summer/ early autumn to allow for testing.

I've also heard that a soft launch will happen at the December 2022 timetable change.

 

[DDB]

I wonder if there will be any delays due to the cracking issues in thier sister classes? I assume any fix to the design they come up with is a lot easier to fit at an early stage of construction while all parts of the structure are easy to access and don't have any delicate electronics attached.

 

[Roast Veg]

I wonder if there will be any delays due to the cracking issues in thier sister classes? I assume any fix to the design they come up with is a lot easier to fit at an early stage of construction while all parts of the structure are easy to access and don't have any delicate electronics attached.

Since the issue (appears to be) with the choice of steel used in the body shells, and no doubt the steel to be used will have been finalised long ago, any succceptibility to stress corrosion fractures on these units is effectively set in stone already. Or set in metal, if you will.

 

[swt_passenger]

Since the issue (appears to be) with the choice of steel used in the body shells, and no doubt the steel to be used will have been finalised long ago, any succceptibility to stress corrosion fractures on these units is effectively set in stone already. Or set in metal, if you will.

Choice of Aluminium surely?

 

[edwin_m]

Since the issue (appears to be) with the choice of steel used in the body shells, and no doubt the steel to be used will have been finalised long ago, any succceptibility to stress corrosion fractures on these units is effectively set in stone already. Or set in metal, if you will.

However, as suggested, it ought to be a lot easier to modify the bare bodyshell before fitting out than to modify the trains that are already assembled. Bodyshells not yet produced should be able to have their design changed to incorporate some strengthening in this area.

 

[Jozhua]

From what I've heard 1 unit will be completed by end of summer/ early autumn to allow for testing.

I've also heard that a soft launch will happen at the December 2022 timetable change.

Cool! Hopefully we'll see one rolling around soon enough, although I don't have the patience to stand around and wait to see it, rather just take a ride on one, but I'll probably have to wait a while for that!