Class 93 Tri-mode Loco

[squizzler]

it looks like the new Stadler front end as on the latest FLIRTs.

It would make sense for Stadler to gradually change the styling of the former Vossloh product range to better resemble their other rolling stock and create a consistent design language across the range. It is good to see such care being taken with the appearance of stock these days. Again I would marvel at the progress from its direct ancestor the Class 67 - a 100mph+ loco built at the same Valencia plant just over 20 years ago. Not only is the internal technology a quantum leap from a 2-stroke EMD lump and DC traction motors but it looks it too.

Why does it look like that render used to be blue? Maybe it's just me!

I remember the illustration that appeared a few months back in 'Modern Railways' was indeed blue, but I also seem recall that being a simple side elevation rather than the 3D render shown here. I daresay the press release features a more current iteration of the actual design as well as the colour scheme.

 

[Royston Vasey]

Why does it look like that render used to be blue? Maybe it's just me!

A little subliminal greenwashing by the digital marketing team

 

[Roast Veg]

It would make sense for Stadler to gradually change the styling of the former Vossloh product range to better resemble their other rolling stock and create a consistent design language across the range. It is good to see such care being taken with the appearance of stock these days. Again I would marvel at the progress from its direct ancestor the Class 67 - a 100mph+ loco built at the same Valencia plant just over 20 years ago. Not only is the internal technology a quantum leap from a 2-stroke EMD lump and DC traction motors but it looks it too.

Agreed - the generational differences from the Class 67 is really fascinating. It's like comparing the car with the spaceship!

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

So what traffic does ROG have that will use these locos?

 

[Domh245]

So what traffic does ROG have that will use these locos?

Nothing comes to mind (indeed, don't they just do stock moves at the moment?), although they're certainly making themselves quite attractive to pick up some flows. It's quite clear that they're keen on growing and doing 'innovative' things as they're also introducing the 319/769 "orion" postal services

 

[ABB125]

Nothing comes to mind (indeed, don't they just do stock moves at the moment?), although they're certainly making themselves quite attractive to pick up some flows. It's quite clear that they're keen on growing and doing 'innovative' things as they're also introducing the 319/769 "orion" postal services

Are they also pursuing HST freight services, or is that someone else?

 

[ExRes]

So what traffic does ROG have that will use these locos?

When the partnership with STAR Capital was announced recently there was one line that covers everything

"Additionally, STAR will provide significant growth capital to fuel the Group's ambitious expansion plans"

It's not simply a matter of what ROG have, it's what ROG may be planning

 

[XCTurbostar]

So I've spent a little time making some alternative liveries. Assuming that ROG stick with the current blue;

 

[py_megapixel]

Why does ROGs livery look so hideous and amateur?.

I actually quite like it... certainly doesn't look as amateur as e.g. Thameslink or Northern

don't they just do stock moves at the moment?)

I think they do recovery operations for failed units as well; there's some YouTube videos of ROG-branded 37s dragging faulty 755s around.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

So I've spent a little time making some alternative liveries. Assuming that ROG stick with the current blue;

Third one ( black front ) looks best from those.

I don't personally see anything wrong with the green version ROG put out though?

 

[Domh245]

I think something like the first one with the yellow & black front, but with the lower edge coming down to a point in the middle following the line of the headlights would look smartest (although it looks like the bit underneath is it's own panel, so may not be practical)

 

[Loki]

So I've spent a little time making some alternative liveries. Assuming that ROG stick with the current blue;

I hate the yellow front in general but you made it look really good. Nice work.

 

[dm1]

This looks a bit curvier the me, but I can see the similarity!

The main thing is the "Stadler V" shape that is just under the windscreen, which is apparently a corporate design element on all new Stadler vehicles.

 

[themiller]

A little subliminal greenwashing by the digital marketing team

Or is it to make it different from the DRS livery. If your locos are your advertising, you don’t want prospective customers thinking it’s one of the oppositions locos!

 

[HST43257]

So what traffic does ROG have that will use these locos?

I’m fairly sure the plan is to use most/all of these locos in conjunction with Class 769s on Orion postal services around Britain. They’re a huge environmental game changer and I’d love to see a lot more get ordered by the likes of GBRF, DRS, FL and DB for intermodal services.

 

[Speed43125]

GBRF

I'd be glad if GBRf got anything electric at all personally - rather than constantly expanding their shed fleet - but this is getting off topic.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I’m fairly sure the plan is to use most/all of these locos in conjunction with Class 769s on Orion postal services around Britain. They’re a huge environmental game changer and I’d love to see a lot more get ordered by the likes of GBRF, DRS, FL and DB for intermodal services.

My point really is that this all seems speculative and dependent on ROG winning new freight business (or taking existing flows from other TOCs).
DRS have ended up sub-leasing many of their class 68 fleet to passenger TOCs.

 

[CAF397]

My point really is that this all seems speculative and dependent on ROG winning new freight business (or taking existing flows from other TOCs).
DRS have ended up sub-leasing many of their class 68 fleet to passenger TOCs.

Which is either luck, or a good return on a speculative order for passenger locos. Without TPE ordering loco-hauled stock there might've been over a dozen surplus 68s. Or did DRS know there was going to be a need for 100mph passenger locos?

 

[dgl]

I reckon DRS thought they had a winner having the only modern decent passenger/mixed traffic locomotive (ignoring the lacklustre 67's), knowing that some TOCs may have to use LHCS and would want something modern and reliable to drag it. Given that Chiltern swapped the 67's which were owned by their parent company shows how much better they must be for passenger services as you would have thought they would have gotten/been able to get a good deal on leasing the 67's from DBC.

Of course as the railways go for even more decarbonisation removing diesel operation wherever possible seems to make sense, and given ROG seem to want to expand then having locos that use diesel as little as possible seem to be a good idea, plus having modern locos that can properly haul modern stock for delivery/repair would also work for them.

 

[Class 170101]

I'd be glad if GBRf got anything electric at all personally - rather than constantly expanding their shed fleet - but this is getting off topic.

They had Class 92s which did some trains to Ipswich with a loco change onwards for Felixstowe.

 

[northernbelle]

I reckon DRS thought they had a winner having the only modern decent passenger/mixed traffic locomotive (ignoring the lacklustre 67's), knowing that some TOCs may have to use LHCS and would want something modern and reliable to drag it. Given that Chiltern swapped the 67's which were owned by their parent company shows how much better they must be for passenger services as you would have thought they would have gotten/been able to get a good deal on leasing the 67's from DBC.

Of course as the railways go for even more decarbonisation removing diesel operation wherever possible seems to make sense, and given ROG seem to want to expand then having locos that use diesel as little as possible seem to be a good idea, plus having modern locos that can properly haul modern stock for delivery/repair would also work for them.

Indeed - I suspect decarbonisation and reducing emissions will become a priority over operational convenience before too long and the need for bi-mode locos will grow.

I can think of several instances where a bi-mode loco with meaningful diesel capability could be put to use:

• Various freight flows such as Freightliner services into Felixstowe and further conversion of Anglo-Scottish flows not already given over to 88s
• GWR sleeper services, allowing Paddington to become entirely diesel-free
• Conversion of the many Network Rail test trains that run at least in part under the wires

With a meaningful expansion of electrification schemes, such as the TPE Liverpool-Scarborough corridor, bi-mode locos could support the incremental conversion from diesel without the upheaval of rolling stock changes and the expense associated with changing from one type to another.

 

[Domh245]

I can think of several instances where a bi-mode loco with meaningful diesel capability could be put to use:

• Various freight flows such as Freightliner services into Felixstowe and further conversion of Anglo-Scottish flows not already given over to 88s
• GWR sleeper services, allowing Paddington to become entirely diesel-free
• Conversion of the many Network Rail test trains that run at least in part under the wires

Whilst I agree with that first flow, and your general point about going over to bi-modal at least, flows 2 & 3 (and many other) may be more of an issue depending on the range that they can achieve on diesel (which I would think is not particularly long), and indeed the power on diesel, whilst an improvement over the 88s, still strikes me as too little for the sleeper

Bimodal locomotives at the moment strike me as more of an 'Electric loco that can do limited diesel running' than a 'Diesel loco that can use OLE' which still rather limits their usefulness, although I'm willing to be proven wrong. The obvious thing to do is crack on with electrification of freight flows to enable use of pure electric locos (with batteries for shunting in unelectrified terminals)

 

[Peter Sarf]

Whilst I agree with that first flow, and your general point about going over to bi-modal at least, flows 2 & 3 (and many other) may be more of an issue depending on the range that they can achieve on diesel (which I would think is not particularly long), and indeed the power on diesel, whilst an improvement over the 88s, still strikes me as too little for the sleeper

Bimodal locomotives at the moment strike me as more of an 'Electric loco that can do limited diesel running' than a 'Diesel loco that can use OLE' which still rather limits their usefulness, although I'm willing to be proven wrong. The obvious thing to do is crack on with electrification of freight flows to enable use of pure electric locos (with batteries for shunting in unelectrified terminals)

I agree with you that we have not reached the stage where a Bi-Mode can do significant work away from the Overhead 25kV AC. The batteries for the 93 should give better starting power (on top of the diesel engine) to get the train moving before the loco got under the wires - say from a yard or branch line (maybe Felixstowe to Ipswich).

 

[43096]

I agree with you that we have not reached the stage where a Bi-Mode can do significant work away from the Overhead 25kV AC.

Not in the UK, no. But Stadler do have such a beast in production for mainland Europe: it's a 6MW electric loco and also has the Stage 3B version of the V16 CAT C175 that's in Class 68. Massively impressive bit of kit.

 

[Energy]

Not in the UK, no. But Stadler do have such a beast in production for mainland Europe: it's a 6MW electric loco and also has the Stage 3B version of the V16 CAT C175 that's in Class 68. Massively impressive bit of kit.

Indeed, the HVLE Euroduals are very impressive.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Not in the UK, no. But Stadler do have such a beast in production for mainland Europe: it's a 6MW electric loco and also has the Stage 3B version of the V16 CAT C175 that's in Class 68. Massively impressive bit of kit.

Oh... I wonder what it would take to squeeze something like it into the UK loading gauge - perhaps a B0-B0-B0 articulated beast ?.

 

[43096]

Oh... I wonder what it would take to squeeze something like it into the UK loading gauge - perhaps a B0-B0-B0 articulated beast ?.

I'd just go for a straight Co-Co as a "Class 66 killer". Performance of the European versions gives tractive effort at least a match for Class 60.

 

[Puppetfinger]

Will the batteries be able to provide peak shaving capability when operating on diesel? This will mean that heavy engine loads (ie getting moving on diesel, increases in speed etc) can be assisted by the batteries, thus reducing load and therefore emissions and consumption by the diesel prime mover.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Will the batteries be able to provide peak shaving capability when operating on diesel? This will mean that heavy engine loads (ie getting moving on diesel, increases in speed etc) can be assisted by the batteries, thus reducing load and therefore emissions and consumption by the diesel prime mover.

That was my assumption (peak sharing btw).

 

[BogiePicker]

So I've spent a little time making some alternative liveries. Assuming that ROG stick with the current blue;

The all-yellow and all-dark faces look rather good, in particular the latter.