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Comparison of station facilities with motorway services

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Falcon1200

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The 15:44 and 17:44 Knutsford to Manchester services both get over 100 boarding in school term time and the 16:44 and 18:44 aren't far behind.

That does surprise me, but thanks for the info.

The small proportion of the users who spend money then have to subside those not spending anything.

Disagree with that, every time I visit a motorway service station there are scores of people eating or spending in the shops, plus of course buying fuel. If most visitors didn't spend money the cafes, shops etc wouldn't be there !
 
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Bletchleyite

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Though according to another thread, those schoolkids at Knutsford don't pay 1p either.

The overheads at Motorway services are insane. They're usually quite remote from other large facilities so the initial start-up costs of getting them on the power/water/sewage grids is pretty steep. As stated upthread certain parts have to be kept open 24/7/365 which means any areas accessible at 3am must be monitored and patrolled. Pretty much every staff member needs their own transport (at the MSA I worked at, there were a few 16-year-olds on summer jobs who got lifts, and one lady who cycled in along the access road) as it's understandably rare for public transport to go within a kilometre of any MSA.

Some of them are quite accessible, e.g. Newport Pagnell is actually in the town. The access roads are available to staff if they want, they don't have to use the motorway to arrive.
 

61653 HTAFC

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Some of them are quite accessible, e.g. Newport Pagnell is actually in the town. The access roads are available to staff if they want, they don't have to use the motorway to arrive.
I said "Usually". Particularly the ones built as the Motorway network was developed due to the spacing rules mentioned near the beginning of the thread. Tebay is in the middle of the wilderness, most are surrounded by farmland. You still need a vehicle and licence to use the backroads anyway.
 

Bletchleyite

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I said "Usually". Particularly the ones built as the Motorway network was developed due to the spacing rules mentioned near the beginning of the thread. Tebay is in the middle of the wilderness, most are surrounded by farmland. You still need a vehicle and licence to use the backroads anyway.

No, you don't, you can use them on foot or on a bicycle (requiring no licence), or a taxi (which couldn't enter but could drop you by the access road).
 

61653 HTAFC

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No, you don't, you can use them on foot or on a bicycle (requiring no licence), or a taxi (which couldn't enter but could drop you by the access road).
You're being needlessly pedantic here. My point was that there's a reason the prices are high and part of it is staffing difficulties because the sites generally aren't easy to access without use of a motor vehicle. You might be able to find someone who's prepared to cycle 5 miles along winding country lanes to do a 16-hour shift getting whined at about the price of a packet of cigarettes, but most people won't bother.
 

Bletchleyite

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You're being needlessly pedantic here. My point was that there's a reason the prices are high and part of it is staffing difficulties because the sites generally aren't easy to access without use of a motor vehicle. You might be able to find someone who's prepared to cycle 5 miles along winding country lanes to do a 16-hour shift getting whined at about the price of a packet of cigarettes, but most people won't bother.

I think you might be surprised at what young people will often do for a job.

The reason prices are high is that the cost of operating the sites is high - they are large, there's a lot to maintain and they're required to be open 24/7. I'd be surprised if most of the staff were on significantly more than minimum.
 

61653 HTAFC

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I think you might be surprised at what young people will often do for a job.

The reason prices are high is that the cost of operating the sites is high - they are large, there's a lot to maintain and they're required to be open 24/7. I'd be surprised if most of the staff were on significantly more than minimum.
Not sure what they're paying these days, but 15-ish years ago I worked at a MSA so I can tell you that back then my pay was £2 per hour higher than my previous job doing basically the same thing (Petrol station) at a supermarket. Bank Holidays were paid double time (as opposed to time-and-a-half at the supermarket) so the earnings (and therefore costs for the employer) were a fair bit higher than at a more convenient location. Basically the location is inconvenient and harder to access, so you have to offer a bit more pay. If you're lucky and live in a village along the access road, then you're quids-in.

Again, you might well find someone who would be happy to cycle in for five miles along winding country lanes with high hedgerows, sharp blind turns, and reckless teenage tractor drivers. There was a lass I worked with who did exactly that. But she was the exception not the rule.
 

BingMan

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I realise there are a few independent services with better reputations these days, but is there really a difference in ambience between a Moto and a Welcome Break?
No But there is a great difference between Westmoreland (At Tebay) and Road chef (at Killington Lake)
 

Bletchleyite

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No But there is a great difference between Westmoreland (At Tebay) and Road chef (at Killington Lake)

Though I do think people overtalk the Westmorland sites. They're better than the standard ones I'll give you, but the food is basically just generic pub food in quality, it's not as special as is made out, there's a certain element of "all day breakfast that really has been there all day" (a Jasper Carrott-ism I think) and cleaning is sometimes lacking. They also have odd omissions in the shops, e.g. no paracetamol in the main shop, only the garage ones.
 

Cloud Strife

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Definitely used to be the case, the canteen-like restaurants where you walked round with a tray were open all night

I remember this very well. I had a job for a while as a student that was quite nice: I was paid to do nothing 90% of the time at night, but it could happen that I'd get a phone call. I'd have to ride my bike very quickly to the office, grab a set of keys for one of the company cars, drive to a random airport to pick up something from the cargo side and get it delivered to Bristow Helicopters in Aberdeen so that it could be delivered to wherever it was needed.

It was quite normal to eat in those places at night, because the client paid and so I could get whatever I wanted. It was actually nice being able to get a proper meal at 2-3am, and I remember many nights in Kinross or Stirling Services where I'd be the only person there.
 

pemma

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Though according to another thread, those schoolkids at Knutsford don't pay 1p either.

The thread that talked about Wilmslow High School? There isn't a train between Knutsford and Wilmslow, there is a bus though. The main schools journeys (AM) are:

Stations between Navigation Road and Mobberley to Knutsford Academy
Stations between Mobberley and Northwich to Greenbank station, for St Nicholas High
Cheshire East stations to Trafford stations, for various grammar schools.

Teams of RPIs are a common site at both Knutsford and Greenbank stations.
 

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The thread that talked about Wilmslow High School? There isn't a train between Knutsford and Wilmslow, there is a bus though. The main schools journeys (AM) are:

Stations between Navigation Road and Mobberley to Knutsford Academy
Stations between Mobberley and Northwich to Greenbank station, for St Nicholas High
Cheshire East stations to Trafford stations, for various grammar schools.

Teams of RPIs are a common site at both Knutsford and Greenbank stations.
Apologies, got my Cheshire towns muddled up.
 

pemma

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Disagree with that, every time I visit a motorway service station there are scores of people eating or spending in the shops, plus of course buying fuel. If most visitors didn't spend money the cafes, shops etc wouldn't be there !

Lower demand means higher prices and higher prices puts people off making purchases. It creates a vicious cycle.

People only buy fuel on the motorway if they will run out before leaving. Even the ESSO station on a B road in Knutsford is open 24 hours and can have a queue for the pumps at certain times of the day. That's when there's 2 other petrol stations within 1 mile, including another ESSO. According to Moto Way the price of unleaded at Knutsford Services on the M6 is 16p per litre more than in the town.
 

yorksrob

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I also miss the canteen type restaurant where one goes round with a tray collecting/ordering what you want. Seems to have been replaced by high Street chain restaurants.
 

trebor79

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I also miss the canteen type restaurant where one goes round with a tray collecting/ordering what you want. Seems to have been replaced by high Street chain restaurants.
Yes, it was altogether more civilised compared to hoardes of people milling around waiting to collect their McDonalds or whatever.
 

py_megapixel

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Yes, it was altogether more civilised compared to hoardes of people milling around waiting to collect their McDonalds or whatever.
What I find most uncivilised about McDonald's is not the hoardes of people, but the constant earsplittingly loud "beeeep... beeeep... beeeep" from behind the counter!
 

yorksrob

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Yes, it was altogether more civilised compared to hoardes of people milling around waiting to collect their McDonalds or whatever.

It's a shame they couldn't keep it as a choice amongst the chains.

I suppose I'm not the best advocate as I don't drive. If they had one at Leeds city station on the otherhand !
 

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I also miss the canteen type restaurant where one goes round with a tray collecting/ordering what you want. Seems to have been replaced by high Street chain restaurants.
I don't miss the stupid teapots that don't pour properly. Ben Elton had a bit where he moaned about motorway services: the toilets complete with p*** lake and a ferryman that gets you across it; and teapots from the "Ministry of C**p Design".
 

yorksrob

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I don't miss the stupid teapots that don't pour properly. Ben Elton had a bit where he moaned about motorway services: the toilets complete with p*** lake and a ferryman that gets you across it; and teapots from the "Ministry of C**p Design".

And the inevitable toilet cubicle where the previous occupant has a sprinkler system for an arse :lol:

I miss being able to go along and order chips beans and sausages etc though such staples seem hard to find in restaurants nowadays !
 

JamesT

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Lower demand means higher prices and higher prices puts people off making purchases. It creates a vicious cycle.

People only buy fuel on the motorway if they will run out before leaving. Even the ESSO station on a B road in Knutsford is open 24 hours and can have a queue for the pumps at certain times of the day. That's when there's 2 other petrol stations within 1 mile, including another ESSO. According to Moto Way the price of unleaded at Knutsford Services on the M6 is 16p per litre more than in the town.
Similarly, whenever I'm driving to Scotland I'll go to the Carlisle Asda just off M6 J44. Much cheaper petrol, adequate cafe, and can pick up things I've forgotten to bring with me as it's a full supermarket.

Maybe some stations should be turned over to supermarkets to run (at least the non-operational side), they might do a better job?
 

py_megapixel

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I don't miss the stupid teapots that don't pour properly. Ben Elton had a bit where he moaned about motorway services: the toilets complete with p*** lake and a ferryman that gets you across it; and teapots from the "Ministry of C**p Design".
I find that can one can generally rely upon the toilets at motorway services being acceptable these days (though those vacuum ones that Moto have these days are a bit strange).

At stations they vary a lot. The ones at Manchester Oxford Road, for example, are pretty poor. Hop on a train one stop to Piccadilly and they're fine.
 

trebor79

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I find that can one can generally rely upon the toilets at motorway services being acceptable these days (though those vacuum ones that Moto have these days are a bit strange).
Thing is they aren't vacuum, which would be OK. They blow, which is why the lid has that clip to keep it shut. But you can hear a little bit escaping round the seals which is why those boys always smell a bit, and I can only assume one is breathing atomised toilet bowl contents. I find them a bit gross to be honest.
 

yorksrob

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Thing is they aren't vacuum, which would be OK. They blow, which is why the lid has that clip to keep it shut. But you can hear a little bit escaping round the seals which is why those boys always smell a bit, and I can only assume one is breathing atomised toilet bowl contents. I find them a bit gross to be honest.

Please, better a real toilet than a vacuum one !
 

Basil Jet

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What I find most uncivilised about McDonald's is not the hoardes of people, but the constant earsplittingly loud "beeeep... beeeep... beeeep" from behind the counter!
They should never have started making the McNuggets from road runners.
 

snowball

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According to Wikipedia, the previous minimum separation rule, 12 miles, was removed in 2013 - Although I have a recollection from somewhere that when the first motorways were built, the minimum separation was greater, something like 25 to 30 miles, presumably to ensure that each was profitable and to reduce the number of junctions.
That's true. The early service areas on the M6 were Keele, Knutsford, and Charnock Richard, but with provision for later ones midway between such as Sandbach. Even Sandbach is quite old now. Around the network there are, or have been, quite a lot of tapers for access roads to/from service areas that never happened.
 

yorksrob

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That's true. The early service areas on the M6 were Keele, Knutsford, and Charnock Richard, but with provision for later ones midway between such as Sandbach. Even Sandbach is quite old now. Around the network there are, or have been, quite a lot of tapers for access roads to/from service areas that never happened.

Forton must be quite an old one.
 

DelW

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Architecturally there's nothing beats a grand old railway station, but some service stations have their charm. I remember visiting the old Aust/Seven Bridge service station with its grand view of the bridge. Sadly now an office block !

Forton must be quite an old one.

Yes, deserves a listing as far as I'm concerned.
Two of the highlights of visits to service areas during my younger days were the views from Aust of the Severn Bridge, and from the viewing platform at Forton.

Unfortunately, despite Aust now being called (inappropriately) Severn View, the current building has views only of the car park and filling station; while the tower at Forton was closed on the only occasion I've been there in recent times, which looked as if it was a permanent closure.

Maybe patrons don't want views these days, as they're too busy catching up with Facebook, Instagram, Twitter or whatever.
 
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