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Compulsory Reservations- Poll

Do you agree or disagree with the introduction of compulsory reservations on Inter-City trains?

  • Agree

  • Disagree

  • Indifferent


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Bletchleyite

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I don't support blanket compulsory seat reservations on every train in normal times, but selectively to protect longer distance passengers where reasonable alternatives exist why not?

This may indeed be where LNER were coming from when they said the approach had a place in LNER's future - might not mean every train, but rather specific ones that are known to be really, really busy. BR of course used it in that way (even if they didn't enforce it), and it was only more recently that the "white R" pretty much stopped appearing on timetables entirely other than the Caledonian Sleeper, replaced with the "black R" which just means "warning, this train might be a bit busy" and has no other practical implication.
 
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Envoy

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If the passenger has booked themselves on the 1pm departure because they wanted to lock in their journey ahead of time then they are presumably happy with that choice (although it is not unheard of for planes to be more than 2hr late). Personally I think they would be better just going direct to Reading and booking themselves on the next service home - possibly on their mobile whilst on transfer bus. Much simpler.
Pre booking an advance ticket for a specific train is much cheaper than just rocking up at a station and buying on the day. I contend that somebody just showing up at Reading from say Heathrow at an off peak time should be able to just purchase a relatively cheap ticket on the day. This should also apply to any journey where trains have plenty of spare capacity.
 

Bletchleyite

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Pre booking an advance ticket for a specific train is much cheaper than just rocking up at a station and buying on the day. I contend that somebody just showing up at Reading from say Heathrow at an off peak time should be able to just purchase a relatively cheap ticket on the day. This should also apply to any journey where trains have plenty of spare capacity.

In the case of a flight, just book an Advance with the slack your insurer specifies, and then if you miss it then claim.

You do have travel insurance, right? :)
 

miami

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Yes, as I'm front line TOC staff, I've had that complaint made to me numerous times over the years when far more people have tickets than there are seats available......

Your annecdote doesn't trump actual data. What TOC? What route? Which train?

Even if it did, "numerous times over years" is about equal to "zero complaints"

Not that I'm in favour of compulsory reservations but if we did end up going down that road then this sounds like a compromise which still allows short-hop local journeys to be made on long distance operators.

Which completely misses the point, which is to apprently make it "more pleasant" for some people with reservations.

Because it makes for a more pleasant on-board travelling environment.

If you allow standing on Manchester-Stockport, Stockport-Macclesfield, Macclesfield-Stoke, Milton Keynes-Euston, what's the point?

In the case of a flight, just book an Advance with the slack your insurer specifies, and then if you miss it then claim.

Claim what? A night in the hotel, a train journey in 3, 4, 10 days time? Who knows, if trains are busy when will I be able to travel?

I'll just hire a one-way car-hire and drive home thanks. If the plane lands an hour early, I'll get home an hour early, if it's 4 hours later I'll be 4 hours late.
 

Bletchleyite

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If you allow standing on Manchester-Stockport, Stockport-Macclesfield, Macclesfield-Stoke, Milton Keynes-Euston, what's the point?

None, and I don't agree with that proposal. We would be better doing the work and spending the money to ensure every line has, as a base, a proper, at least hourly local service as well as any ICs.

Claim what? A night in the hotel, a train journey in 3, 4, 10 days time? Who knows, if trains are busy when will I be able to travel?

You'd claim a train later that day or a taxi if there wasn't availability. But it's inconceivable that there would be no availability that day. Evening trains do not typically run full and standing.

I'll just hire a one-way car-hire and drive home thanks. If the plane lands an hour early, I'll get home an hour early, if it's 4 hours later I'll be 4 hours late.

The sort of person who will do one-way car hires for that purpose is the sort of person who won't even consider rail, generally.
 

Austriantrain

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The sort of person who will do one-way car hires for that purpose is the sort of person who won't even consider rail, generally.

I know it is not really up to me to comment UK railway policy, but regarding compulsory reservation (CR) I have always had a theory and I would be interested in Feedback.

Here it goes:
- CR works great if the train is vastly faster than the car and its only - if at all - competitor is the plane. That is why on TGV or AVE it works perfectly fine. You would have to reserve on the plane as well and your „go anywhere anytime private car“ is so much slower that you would not bother.
- CR will not work if the private car is the major competitor journey-time wise, because if you travel by car you can start your journey whenever you want.

Based on this, my take is that CR will probably work fine on journeys from London but not so well everywhere else, where rail users will up to a point switch to cars because it affords them more flexibility and comparable journey times.

I might be completely wrong of course. That said, I am grateful that CR until now is not a topic in Central Europe and if it ever comes to Austria, I would certainly use my car much more often. CR would also largely negate all the benefits we are having from our increasingly solid integrated Takt. And of course, in Austria the train rarely has a solid journey time advantage over the car.
 
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Hadders

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Pre booking an advance ticket for a specific train is much cheaper than just rocking up at a station and buying on the day. I contend that somebody just showing up at Reading from say Heathrow at an off peak time should be able to just purchase a relatively cheap ticket on the day. This should also apply to any journey where trains have plenty of spare capacity.

In the case of a flight, just book an Advance with the slack your insurer specifies, and then if you miss it then claim.

You do have travel insurance, right? :)

What happens if you rock up at Reading and all the trains are fully booked for the rest of the day?

You could hedge your bets and book in advance to get the all important seat reservation but what happens if the flight is late, you arrive at the station and attempt to change your reservation (or buy a new ticket as appropriate) only to find all the trains are fully booked.

You see the train you want to catch pull in to the station and there are empty seats but you're not allowed to board because the system says the train is fully booked.

This simply will not work.
 

Bletchleyite

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I might be completely wrong of course. That said, I am grateful that CR until now is not a topic in Central Europe and if it ever comes to Austria, I would certainly use my car much more often. CR would also largely negate all the benefits we are having from our increasingly solid integrated Takt.

Austria, of course, is a relatively small country - Switzerland similarly. You're probably right that there's little cause to go with CR in such countries any more than there would be cause to have it on the Brighton Express.

It is indeed probably London-Scotland services on which it is more likely to have a role. First East Coast, which does intend on such a policy, will be very educational. Indeed, I think it would be unwise for the likes of Avanti, LNER and GWR to decide on future post-COVID policy* before FEC has been running for at least a year or so to see how people take to it.

* As I've said before I do believe it to be the right policy during COVID.

You could hedge your bets and book in advance to get the all important seat reservation but what happens if the flight is late, you arrive at the station and attempt to change your reservation (or buy a new ticket as appropriate) only to find all the trains are fully booked.

Your travel insurer pays for either a hotel or a taxi, as would happen if the airport was in France and you were connecting to a TGV.
 

squizzler

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What happens if you rock up at Reading and all the trains are fully booked for the rest of the day?
I am trying to think of a journey for which all routes might be booked out for the rest of the day to a passenger who turns up at Reading at 11am. Even if you wanted to go to Penzance and it was Friday of August bank holiday the system will probably have reserved some seats at an appropriate market price. Mostly there will be plenty of seats and the algorithm will probably be happy to give a fair price to last minute bookings.

If you wanted to go to Penzance or Glasgow or somewhere, that is the sort of journey that a long wait at the station for your train is not such a big deal anyway.

Also bear in mind that if the ticket is for a specific seat rather than an open ticket to which a seat reservation can be made, that can be not honoured without too much hardship, there will be fewer infilled reserved seats under the new regime.
 

Hadders

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Your travel insurer pays for either a hotel or a taxi, as would happen if the airport was in France and you were connecting to a TGV.
With the passenger paying up front and claiming back presumably. What sort of hassle is the insurance company going to put me through before paying up?

I just want to get home ASAP, not wait hours until the system says there’s a seat available, or start having robust conversations from a draughty railway station.
 

Austriantrain

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Austria, of course, is a relatively small country - Switzerland similarly. You're probably right that there's little cause to go with CR in such countries any more than there would be cause to have it on the Brighton Express.

I don’t think it has anything to do with the seize of the country. Germany has steadfastly refused to introduce CR until now and I am sure they have their reasons. Again, an integrated Takt - which they are aiming for - realistically precludes CR.

I might adapt my theory though: the typical length of journey might be a major factor as well. Rarely do you hop on a train on a whim to go from London to Inverness. Such trips are almost always pre-planned. CR will not be a problem there. And a very long car journey self-driving might not be as attractive either, even if it were as fast or faster than the train (this is why the quite long train journey from Vienna to Vorarlberg- on the Swiss border - works reasonable well: it’s faster by car, but a very long drive, and if you do not book far in advance, flights are extremely expensive).

Newcastle to York will be different though.

And on business travel, having the risk of your meeting overrunning and then not being able to board a train within reasonable time (because it’s Friday , all trains are full and the earliest free seat would be at 9 pm) would be a major deterrent as well, at least for me.
 
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miami

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The sort of person who will do one-way car hires for that purpose is the sort of person who won't even consider rail, generally.

I use one-way car hires and travel by train to heathrow depending on the situation. HS2 will swing more journeys to rail - currently a trip home from customs is 180-220 minutes during the day via rail and similar by car, hs2 will drop to that to 100-120 minutes, but landing at 10pm or leaving at 8am will still mean driving to/from home.

I just want to get home ASAP, not wait hours until the system says there’s a seat available, or start having robust conversations from a draughty railway station.

Quite. I remember one time in 2018 I had a really early flight from Moscow. Decided to get the train home, was keen to get home fast as I was surprising the family (they thought I was flying direct from Moscow to Sinagpore but I managed to get out of that the day before).

Stood on the train on the way home, but the alternative would have been a taxi, not going at a later date so that people who can't afford first have their "ambience ruined".

Your travel insurer pays for either a hotel or a taxi, as would happen if the airport was in France and you were connecting to a TGV.

So France have passenger hostile rail travel modelled after planes. Doesn't mean we should copy them.

Rarely do you hop on a train on a whim to go from London to Inverness. Such trips are almost always pre-planned. CR will not be a problem there.

Might as well fly. And again no point, stopping people boarding Darlington-Newcastle train because they don't have a reservation? Or Falkirk-Gleneagles? Or London-York?

I'm not aware of any trains from London to Inverness that are non-stop.
 

43096

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Having travelled extensively on Spanish railways, where compulsory reservation on Inter City is prevalent, I think it is the way forward for the UK in a post COVID environment. Whilst comparisons with Spain and the UK are not generally helpful, given the geographic spread of towns and Cities, I do think that the turn up and go mantra of Britain’s railway has had its day. However, there would have to be a major change in current timetables to make this work. Smaller towns still need to be served by rail but not necessarily by Inter City. Smart phones (and indeed booking offices)allow the ability to book prior to travel even 30 mins before commencing a journey. I do understand though, it would constitute a major change in travel habits but I am not suggesting immediate change. I think we would have to look at least 2 years into the future before any change.
If you want people out of cars and on trains you have to make the train option hassle free. With my car, if I want to travel now, I can. No reservation needed. If we want people off the roads, then those proposing mandatory reservations need to have a re-think. Making it more difficult for the customer is not the way to go.
 

Bletchleyite

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I don’t think it has anything to do with the seize of the country. Germany has steadfastly refused to introduce CR until now and I am sure they have their reasons. Again, an integrated Takt - which they are aiming for - realistically precludes CR.

I don't believe it does at all, and indeed this is a similar argument to those who say it's pointless having 3tph Euston to Manchester when most people travel on Advance fares to get a reasonable price. Having a frequent service and a planned-connection-based Takt still offers a wider choice of travel times with quality connections, it just does it at the point of purchasing and/or changing the ticket, not at the point of rocking up at the station. So I find that argument somewhat fallacious, to be honest.
 

david1212

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Because it makes for a more pleasant on-board travelling environment.

Perhaps those people could pay more for such an environment then.

On the basis that extending trains isn't going to be viable, would you accept the reduction in Standard capacity to provide a "Silver Standard" (still 2+2) that would offer that facility at a slight premium?

A half way house is to have one standard class coach as "Silver Standard" at a fare mid-way between the standard walk on fare and first. This gives a bookable seat and with-in the coach standing is not allowed. If there are empty seats all other passengers may use them. If the allocation is not already booked the cut-off time must be several hours ahead, not the current XC system where a seat can suddenly be reserved.
 

Bletchleyite

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A half way house is to have one standard class coach as "Silver Standard" at a fare mid-way between the standard walk on fare and first. This gives a bookable seat and with-in the coach standing is not allowed. If there are empty seats all other passengers may use them. If the allocation is not already booked the cut-off time must be several hours ahead, not the current XC system where a seat can suddenly be reserved.

I'm afraid that would lose a considerable part of the advantage.

One big benefit of CR (or rather, of unmarked reservations or the XC system) is that you can reserve right up to departure. That way, the process of boarding the train is hugely less stressful than if it is a "free for all" for those who are travelling last minute.

Compulsory (or unmarked) reservations would have the potential to end the Euston scrum. Instead of rocking up to Euston and grabbing an Off Peak Return, then standing poised under the departure board waiting for the second the platform appears to join the scrum, you'd grab a reserved ticket, choose your seat on the TVM or on your phone, then have a relaxed saunter about, maybe grab some food and a coffee and use the loo, then saunter down to the platform at any point before departure, and know that your seat is yours. Yes, you can have that benefit by reserving a seat in advance, but this also offers it to those just rocking up at the station.

The gain is very similar to the day low-cost airlines realised people would rather choose their seat in advance from their computer or phone rather than having to stand poised by the corridor at Luton and leg it as soon as a gate came up to make sure of being at the front of the queue.

FWIW, I tend towards favouring unmarked reservations rather than compulsory, because then you can, if you want, board a train with a walk-up ticket, but other than those coaches specifically marked as unreserved, you know you are standing, or potentially you could use your phone or ask staff to obtain a seat in the reserved coach on that train. In many ways it's the best of both worlds. Notably it is the system used by PKP on all but the EIP (Pendolino) trains.
 

Kite159

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choose your seat on the TVM
Paying extra if you want a window seat or even a seat at a table, otherwise it's an aisle seat or seat with a lovely view of plastic if you don't want to pay extra.

As no doubt the rail industry will follow the airline industry in wanting more money by selecting different seats.
 

Bletchleyite

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Paying extra if you want a window seat or even a seat at a table, otherwise it's an aisle seat or seat with a lovely view of plastic if you don't want to pay extra.

As no doubt the rail industry will follow the airline industry in wanting more money by selecting different seats.

I'd not object to that, as it would make my precise choice of seat more likely to be available to me. For the same reason I like it on planes. An extra 10-15 quid is worth it for me for the exit row (it'd not be that much on the railway, maybe a couple of quid), and the fact that most people don't think it is worth it means it's most likely to be available for me to book.

I wouldn't expect a higher charge for window or aisle, though, no airline does that, and they are equally desirable (most people prefer one or the other, but I'd think it evenly spread). Tables are an interesting one as they are in high demand, and I'm not sure of the right approach for those.

On the other hand, I don't think any other European compulsory reservation railway does charge in that way, so there's no reason to assume ours would. You probably do want to make selection either chargeable or not the default in the flow on the TVM, though, because there's benefit to allocating - for example, if you've got a seat with a Paddington-Reading reservation already in it, you ideally want to allocate a Reading-Penzance booker that seat, as otherwise you don't make best use of the capacity.
 

takno

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FWIW, I tend towards favouring unmarked reservations rather than compulsory, because then you can, if you want, board a train with a walk-up ticket, but other than those coaches specifically marked as unreserved, you know you are standing, or potentially you could use your phone or ask staff to obtain a seat in the reserved coach on that train. In many ways it's the best of both worlds. Notably it is the system used by PKP on all but the EIP (Pendolino) trains.
It may be the system used by PKP, but it isn't necessarily the system used by their passengers. I'd say about 50% of the passengers just sit where they like and then get quite bewildered if somebody points out that there are even seat numbers, let alone a specific one they are supposed to be sitting in. The marked reservations are clearer and simpler all round.
 

Austriantrain

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I don't believe it does at all, and indeed this is a similar argument to those who say it's pointless having 3tph Euston to Manchester when most people travel on Advance fares to get a reasonable price. Having a frequent service and a planned-connection-based Takt still offers a wider choice of travel times with quality connections, it just does it at the point of purchasing and/or changing the ticket, not at the point of rocking up at the station. So I find that argument somewhat fallacious, to be honest.

With all honesty as well, I completely disagree. An integrated Takt serves several purposes (not least in infrastructure planning, if you can plan really long-term, which only the Swiss manage to do...), but its fundamental raison-d‘être and why it was introduced in the first place - indeed in Switzerland- is to replicate as much as possible the one major advantage of a private car, namely the ability to go into your driveway and travel anywhere and any time you want, and to reduce as much as possible the inherent disadvantage of rail, namely that you have to look the timetable up first to see when your next train leaves.

CR would completely negate this advantage of an integrated Takt.

I know it’s not proof of causality, but maybe merely coincidence, but countries that go for integrated Takt don’t have CR, and countries that have CR are not interested in Takt. Make of that what you will.
 

miami

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I don't believe it does at all, and indeed this is a similar argument to those who say it's pointless having 3tph Euston to Manchester when most people travel on Advance fares to get a reasonable price.

Ticket type by passenger-km isn't available on a toc or type basis

22% Advance
19% Anytime
37% Offpeak
24% Season

Ticket type by revenue same

17% Advance
30% Any
33% Offpeak
20% Season

Ticket type by revenue is though - intercity operators only

Flexible: 61%

Fixed: 38%

(table 1212, 1232, 7182)


Why don't people use long distance trains? (Public attitude to train services, 2018)

1614798796757.png

3% say "trains are too crowded" is the main reason. 36% think it's easier to not use the train.


Seems crazy implementing a system which specifically targetted at reducing 60% of the revenue tickets, making it even harder to use the train, on the hope that the 3% of people who were concerned with overcrowding are talking about ruining their ambience?

Talk about killing the goose with the golden egg. At least you get to eat in that case.

If a train is standing room only, in my opinion there should not be a single cheap, non-flexible ticket sold on it, but that's the only change I'd make beyond adding more capacity.
 

squizzler

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'It's easier by car / plane' seems a pretty meaningless response. How do you define 'easy'?

As has already been pointed out somewhere upthread; To some people, going on the mobile and picking when they want to travel and for the device to respond with a fare is easier than having to choose a 'product' like day return, off peak single, super saver whatever, split ticket, etc. So having a fixed train departure is probably not itself an anathema to being 'easy'.

Reformed fare system might however address the misperception that train fares are too expensive (next highest reason on the list). All too often, the press stumbles across an eye-watering high fare that is listed as available to buy. An algorithmic fares system will probably be at liberty to charge even higher than that but it will be hidden in the workings of the mainframe away from public gaze. The railway will be able to publicise its journeys as 'starting from' such and such.

For example, we know that the most expensive journey from somewhere in the southwest to somewhere in Scotland costs over a thousand pounds, but I doubt anybody can tell me straightaway the maximum fare you could possibly pay for a domestic flight - with no extras - from Easyjet? A reformed fares system may allow the railway to set out its own narrative on fares.
 

Bletchleyite

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For a very long time £299 appeared to be the maximum easyJet or Ryanair fare, however I've seen higher than that recently.

You can probably find it out for an IATA airline (e.g. BA), though - the full fare Y (economy) fare for any given journey should be published in the relevant systems (equivalents of BRFares.com). Don't know precisely where, though.
 

Austriantrain

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'It's easier by car / plane' seems a pretty meaningless response. How do you define 'easy'?

Don’t really understand your point.

Rail is not an island. For every trip I might make by rail, I have alternatives.

If rail is so fast that these alternatives are meaningless (because using the car needs twice the time) or have the same conditions (ie compulsory reservation; ie plane) attached to it, I will probably go for the train.

If I were, most likely, faster or at least nearly as fast driving my own car - which I don’t have to reserve, since it is parked in my driveway - I might very well not chose rail if I first have to find out whether I can travel at all (ie mandatorily reserve a seat).

Competitive positions...
 
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miami

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As has already been pointed out somewhere upthread; To some people, going on the mobile and picking when they want to travel and for the device to respond with a fare is easier than having to choose a 'product' like day return, off peak single, super saver whatever, split ticket, etc. So having a fixed train departure is probably not itself an anathema to being 'easy'.

That's exactly what you do now. Only you have extra rights that the railway trys hard to remove as they really want to be an airline that's subsidised by the taxpayer.

I doubt anybody can tell me straightaway the maximum fare you could possibly pay for a domestic flight - with no extras - from Easyjet?

From BA a London-Edinburgh flight it's at least £631 return on fare basis YV2R, however my expertflyer subscription expired so I can't look it up exactly. My corporate travel office could though as they have access to the system.

I wouldn't mind if my tax money didn't go to subsidising people playing with their trainsets.

(Like literally that's how the railways is advertised sometimes -- as a toy rather than a means of transport)
 

david1212

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....

If a train is standing room only, in my opinion there should not be a single cheap, non-flexible ticket sold on it, but that's the only change I'd make beyond adding more capacity.

Exactly. Any ticket offered at less than the walk on fare should only be available on trains that run below capacity, have a quota and never option of a reservation.
 

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France or Italy, though, where when you rock up at the station you're almost certain to get on the next train
But if there are almost always seats available, then there's no point in compulsory reservation because everyone will get a seat anyway -- it's just unnecessary bureaucracy.
I don't support blanket compulsory seat reservations on every train in normal times, but selectively to protect longer distance passengers where reasonable alternatives exist why not?
Yes, but the reasonable alternatives are important. For example, if there is a problem with long-distance passengers being unable to find seats on LNER's beyond-Edinburgh services (but don't just assume that there is -- many of them presumably make reservations anyway), there might be a case for compulsory reservations south of Edinburgh, because there are plenty of other trains. But if all trains between London and Edinburgh are CR there isn't a reasonable alternative.
Rarely do you hop on a train on a whim to go from London to Inverness. Such trips are almost always pre-planned. CR will not be a problem there.
Inverness maybe -- it's probably wise to reserve if you want to be sure of a seat on the through train. But for the journey I make about 3 times per year in normal circumstances from the Thames Valley to Stirling and back (albeit rarely using LNER), I'll usually know what day I'm coming back, but not necessarily what time, and that's before I consider saving an hour by making a not-to-be-relied-upon tight connection (or, to look at it another way, having to delay my journey by an hour under CR in case the bus is late). Even on the outward journey, I've been known to change my mind about which train to catch just the evening before doing so, or change route after starting the journey because of disruption.

Having a frequent service and a planned-connection-based Takt still offers a wider choice of travel times with quality connections, it just does it at the point of purchasing and/or changing the ticket, not at the point of rocking up at the station.
But that's still a reduction in convenience for no good reason, and in the only circumstances where CR has any point to it (severe overcrowding), you still lose flexibility as other trains are likely to be fully booked. By the logic of 'plenty of trains, but you have to choose one before travelling', one could almost propose CR on the London Underground -- isn't that where crowding is most notorious?

One big benefit of CR (or rather, of unmarked reservations or the XC system) is that you can reserve right up to departure. That way, the process of boarding the train is hugely less stressful than if it is a "free for all" for those who are travelling last minute.

Compulsory (or unmarked) reservations would have the potential to end the Euston scrum. Instead of rocking up to Euston and grabbing an Off Peak Return, then standing poised under the departure board waiting for the second the platform appears to join the scrum, you'd grab a reserved ticket, choose your seat on the TVM or on your phone, then have a relaxed saunter about, maybe grab some food and a coffee and use the loo, then saunter down to the platform at any point before departure, and know that your seat is yours. Yes, you can have that benefit by reserving a seat in advance, but this also offers it to those just rocking up at the station.

The gain is very similar to the day low-cost airlines realised people would rather choose their seat in advance from their computer or phone rather than having to stand poised by the corridor at Luton and leg it as soon as a gate came up to make sure of being at the front of the queue.

FWIW, I tend towards favouring unmarked reservations rather than compulsory, because then you can, if you want, board a train with a walk-up ticket, but other than those coaches specifically marked as unreserved, you know you are standing, or potentially you could use your phone or ask staff to obtain a seat in the reserved coach on that train. In many ways it's the best of both worlds. Notably it is the system used by PKP on all but the EIP (Pendolino) trains.
With electronic displays having largely taken over from paper labels, there's no need for reservations to be either unmarked or compulsory in order for them to be possible up until boarding starts at the train's origin station. Once there's a risk or reserving a seat in which someone is already sitting, we're back to the old argument about XC's ten minute reservations. If you want to allow reservations once the train is on its way (which I agree can sometimes be useful), the solution would seem to be either designated unreserved coaches, or a simple way of reserving the seat in which you're sitting to prevent someone else doing so.
 

Starmill

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None, and I don't agree with that proposal. We would be better doing the work and spending the money to ensure every line has, as a base, a proper, at least hourly local service as well as any ICs.
I completely agree, but this is many hundreds of billions of pounds and two or three decades worth of work to do. If we'd started building proper 'metros' in the 90s in all British cities, we'd be almost finished by now. Alas, we didn't. And we're therefore stuck with this mess. At least until the 30s and HS2 provides limited relief.
 

Austriantrain

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But if there are almost always seats available, then there's no point in compulsory reservation because everyone will get a seat anyway -- it's just unnecessary bureaucracy.

As you probably realized I am generally against CR. However, you point out an interesting issue. Indeed, if there is spare capacity anyway, CR is indeed just an additional, unnecessary hurdle.

However, on a late spring Friday late afternoon, everybody and their grandparents will want to board a TGV from Gare de Lyon to the Med. All trains are double Duplex, the LGV SE has no spare paths and all trains are completely full - what do you do then? A number of standees would not be a problem, but at some point it becomes a security risk.

So I understand that on these services they need CR. The question then is, how do you communicate that only Friday afternoon TGVs to the Med need a reservation when everything else does not?

A general CR policy then becomes much easier to communicate to the public.

That said, while I understand that CR is mandatory in TGV if you board or disembark in Paris, there is no reason why this should also apply if you go from St Pierre des Corps to Angouleme (where the TGV will always have some capacity from those who left the train at St Pierre) - or on an IC between Narbonne and Montpellier. Indeed, I think that in these cases, CR really makes the services unattractive and SNCF could easily generate more income by foregoing CR.

I can at least imagine that London services are similar, ie good reasons for CR when you board the Edinburgh train at KX, but none whatsoever at Newcastle going to Berwick-upon-Tweed.

Electronic reservation panels should easily help with differentiating.
 

squizzler

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I can at least imagine that London services are similar, ie good reasons for CR when you board the Edinburgh train at KX, but none whatsoever at Newcastle going to Berwick-upon-Tweed.
I feel your argument defeats itself here. If you are making a single stop trip on an intercity service at the fringes, you will be at liberty to just book yourself on the next departure when ready to leave the house, whilst on the way to station or, if you are old skool, the ticket machine at the station. As you say, the train is not full at that point on the network, so you will not be anxious about getting a seat, and thus not a barrier to travelling spontaneously.

But if on your way to an important appointment you will probably have worked out your journey in advance using an online journey planner, and under the new regime most people will take the opportunity to lock in their outbound train. It's all a total non-issue.
 
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