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Could schoolkids be separated from adults on trains?

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Howardh

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Yesterday travelling from Portsmouth harbour to Brighton, on at first a virtually empty service, as well as the commuters filling the train later, so did a large number of school pupils. They were well behaved, wore masks perfectly, but standing down the corridors and any virus would make it's way downwards to the sitting adults.
I was concerned, even worried.
If a train service normally collects a large number of pupils, could one or two carriages be reserved for them? Does this happen anywhere?
This would purely be a covid issue and removed when we get back to normal.
 
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Darandio

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You make it sound like kids are the only ones carrying viruses and need segregating away from the healthy, it sounds like an alternative dystopian nightmare.

There's probably just as much chance of you catching something from the 'sitting adults'.
 

Howardh

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You make it sound like kids are the only ones carrying viruses and need segregating away from the healthy, it sounds like an alternative dystopian nightmare.

There's probably just as much chance of you catching something from the 'sitting adults'.
Frankly all the trains I have been on have been well under 1/3 full, one of the reasons I use them. Yesterday I would suggest if there were no schoolkids, the train would have been half full at best. That reduces the risks and even more so with masks?
 

Gloster

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It would never work. Do you secure the coaches out of use from the starting station when the pupils are getting on later? For example, is a coach out of use from Portsmouth all the way to Chichester, where the pupils get on, or do you tell everybody at Chichester to move.

And who will keep the schoolchildren in the coach and other people out? Rail staff, teachers or volunteer wardens, all of whom will now be at greater risk?

Absolute safety is not possible and this is just one of those things we will have to live with.
 

duncanp

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This was mentioned on this forum a few weeks ago.


In Scotland, the 05:20 Glasgow Queen Street to Oban is for schoolchildren only between Dalmally and Oban.

Other passengers have to change to a replacement bus service at Dalmally.

Similarly the 16:11 from Oban is for schoolchildren only as far as Dalmally, and a replacement bus from Oban is provided for other passengers
 

BJames

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It would never work. Do you secure the coaches out of use from the starting station when the pupils are getting on later? For example, is a coach out of use from Portsmouth all the way to Chichester, where the pupils get on, or do you tell everybody at Chichester to move.

And who will keep the schoolchildren in the coach and other people out? Rail staff, teachers or volunteer wardens, all of whom will now be at greater risk?

Absolute safety is not possible and this is just one of those things we will have to live with.
You're right - it's enough of a pain on TfL buses at the moment with commuters being told to wait for the next non-schoolkid service - which might be full of regular commuters. That's three buses you've then got to wait to go past you before one arrives that would hopefully have enough space.

Using your example if the carriage is empty Portsmouth to Chichester people will go in there unless it is physically inaccessible. And while some may move at Chichester, many may not. And if it was inaccessible except for schoolkids, then you're getting all these schoolchildren of varying age to be closer to each other than perhaps was necessary (going off the assumption that at least some of these are secondary school age, and thus some of their schools are trying to social distance/put kids in bubbles).

Ultimately, the risk on public transport remains low and I would be really surprised to see a mandatory separation of kids from adults on trains come to fruition. The only companies that have tried to actually enforce capacity are those with mandatory reservations, like LNER - it's not enforcable on local stoppers.
 

Bantamzen

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Its bad enough kids having almost a full year of disruption to their education and lives, but to be looked at as infection vectors and separated out from the rest of population? I'd say consider very carefully the consequences of something like this on their future lives.
 
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Mag_seven

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Its bad enough kids having almost a full year of disruption to their education and lives, but to but looked at as infection vectors and separated out from the rest of population? I'd say consider very carefully the consequences of something like this on their future lives.

Agreed - the last thing we need is to start doing is stigmatising schoolchildren in the same way we are now stigmatising people with mask exemptions.
 

NorthOxonian

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Its bad enough kids having almost a full year of disruption to their education and lives, but to but looked at as infection vectors and separated out from the rest of population? I'd say consider very carefully the consequences of something like this on their future lives.

I think the idea that everyone around us should be seen as a walking biohazard is really pernicious. It's definitely not a healthy way of viewing others.

This was mentioned on this forum a few weeks ago.


In Scotland, the 05:20 Glasgow Queen Street to Oban is for schoolchildren only between Dalmally and Oban.

Other passengers have to change to a replacement bus service at Dalmally.

Similarly the 16:11 from Oban is for schoolchildren only as far as Dalmally, and a replacement bus from Oban is provided for other passengers

Is this still the case? I checked earlier today and there seemed to only be the through train from Glasgow, with the Dalmally bus not shown, but of course sources online may not reflect what's happening on the ground.
 

Sean Davidson

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I did ask if School specials are possible, however, it would never be my intention to do anything that would be otherwise detrimental to the children.
 

Hadders

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How would separate carriages work when the service is provided by a class 153? I really don't think this is feasible.
 

Richard Scott

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TFW are operating road transport between Hereford and Newport for schools.
Which, I would imagine, is statically more dangerous than the pupils being on a train and worse for the environment. When are these people going to wake up to reality and stop these crazy ideas?
 

45107

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How would separate carriages work when the service is provided by a class 153? I really don't think this is feasible.
How many services are solely operated by single 153s ?
To my knowledge, most TOCs use them coupled to something else nowadays.
 

Pat Figg

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Yesterday travelling from Portsmouth harbour to Brighton, on at first a virtually empty service, as well as the commuters filling the train later, so did a large number of school pupils. They were well behaved, wore masks perfectly, but standing down the corridors and any virus would make it's way downwards to the sitting adults.
I was concerned, even worried.
If a train service normally collects a large number of pupils, could one or two carriages be reserved for them? Does this happen anywhere?
This would purely be a covid issue and removed when we get back to normal.
I was at Barmouth station last week to catch the 7.46 northwards towards Pwllheli. At that time of the morning the vast majority of the passengers were schoolkids, with about half of them on the same platform as me heading to Ysgol Ardudwy in Harlech, whilst the other half were on the opposite platform catching the 7.50 train southwards taking them to school in Tywyn. I was at the top end of the platform so would have normally gone in the front carriage but shortly before the train arrived I was asked by a member of the security staff (not normal railway staff as far as I could tell, think they were there to encourage mask wearing and social distancing amongst the pupils and other passengers) if I wouldn't mind going down to the bottom of the platform and using the second carriage as they were trying to keep one carriage for the school pupils. I didn't mind moving, it seemed to make sense and as far as I could tell all of the very few non-school passengers using the train were in the second carriage. So it seems they are trying to reserve one carriage for pupils in at least one place (unless it also happens during normal times?). Don't think this would or could have been strictly enforced though if a bolshy passenger had insisted on taking a seat in the front carriage.

This arrangement doesn't seem to work in the afternoon though as later in the week I was catching the afternoon train from Harlech at about 2.45 and this service was very popular with pupils going northwards from the same school (Ysgol Ardudwy) to Penrhyndeudraeth. As the train was already busy this was more of a free-for-all, though there were security staff coming onboard to make sure they were sat in some orderly fashion. They were also handing out facemasks to any kids who no longer had them. School transport on that stretch of the Cambrian Coast seems to be heavily dependent on the railways and those early morning services had been recently reinstated for the start of the school term.
 

warwickshire

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No. It's not them that's the issue. It's the Saturday travelers ie adults causing most concern. Still going around for leisure travel in large numbers ie visiting friends or socialising and late evenings going to the pubs. Also on Tuesday caught the 1553 caught the 1553 paignton to exmouth and Also a load got on at torres and again all well behaved mainly going to newton abbot or teigmouth aboard a 4 car 150 143 combination . Don't forget they have to go to school somehow and more importantly in the next few years or so will be the the railways next generation off commuters to work.
 

Howardh

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I was at Barmouth station last week to catch the 7.46 northwards towards Pwllheli. At that time of the morning the vast majority of the passengers were schoolkids, with about half of them on the same platform as me heading to Ysgol Ardudwy in Harlech, whilst the other half were on the opposite platform catching the 7.50 train southwards taking them to school in Tywyn. I was at the top end of the platform so would have normally gone in the front carriage but shortly before the train arrived I was asked by a member of the security staff (not normal railway staff as far as I could tell, think they were there to encourage mask wearing and social distancing amongst the pupils and other passengers) if I wouldn't mind going down to the bottom of the platform and using the second carriage as they were trying to keep one carriage for the school pupils. I didn't mind moving, it seemed to make sense and as far as I could tell all of the very few non-school passengers using the train were in the second carriage. So it seems they are trying to reserve one carriage for pupils in at least one place (unless it also happens during normal times?). Don't think this would or could have been strictly enforced though if a bolshy passenger had insisted on taking a seat in the front carriage.

This arrangement doesn't seem to work in the afternoon though as later in the week I was catching the afternoon train from Harlech at about 2.45 and this service was very popular with pupils going northwards from the same school (Ysgol Ardudwy) to Penrhyndeudraeth. As the train was already busy this was more of a free-for-all, though there were security staff coming onboard to make sure they were sat in some orderly fashion. They were also handing out facemasks to any kids who no longer had them. School transport on that stretch of the Cambrian Coast seems to be heavily dependent on the railways and those early morning services had been recently reinstated for the start of the school term.
So it can be done then, although as you allude to this could be the normal procedure, even so it still needs staffing in these covid times.
 

1955LR

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Having used that service to travel up to the Ffestiniog over a number of years , the school children usually go where is space with no reserved areas
 
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