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Could we see a return to "essential travel only" messaging?

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TheGrandWazoo

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Moderator note: Split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/could-we-see-a-head-out-to-help-out-scheme.208165/

The idea of encouraging mass public transport during a pandemic and likely second wave just will not happen. The media outcry would be horrendous; folks may disagree with the truth citing the likelihood of catching Covid in such surroundings but that may count for little when the headlines start.

Instead, I suggest that it will be again a move to "essential travel only" as guidance with the hope that it dissuades all but the most entitled people for whom the right to travel on a train or bus when and where they want is seen as an inalienable right.
 
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Instead, I suggest that it will be again a move to "essential travel only" as guidance with the hope that it dissuades all but the most entitled people for whom the right to travel on a train or bus when and where they want is seen as an inalienable right.

Yeah. Essential travel only didn't dissuade the usual, troublesome folks.
Rather than being an opportunity to easily spot their anti social behaviour and dealings, it just gave them carte blanche to be more brazen and travel at will. Ridiculous.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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Yeah. Essential travel only didn't dissuade the usual, troublesome folks.
Rather than being an opportunity to easily spot their anti social behaviour and dealings, it just gave them carte blanche to be more brazen and travel at will. Ridiculous.

To be even-handed, it was the same on the roads. During the good weather of April and May, I'd go for a cycle and be surprised just how many key workers making essential trips drove convertibles or rode high powered motorcycles :E

The chances of a proposed travel scheme to promote anything other than essential travel during any increase in Covid cases is simply a non-starter
 

StephenHunter

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We might get "essential travel only" as part of any "circuit breaker" lockdown; however, I suspect this scheme might follow once a vaccine becomes available.
 

Peter Mugridge

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We might get "essential travel only" as part of any "circuit breaker" lockdown

They've already done that with the Merseyside / North West / Midlands restrictions announced the other day, albeit only for residents of the areas.

That does, however, imply that they will do the same everywhere if they extend those restrictions nationally.
 

crablab

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I wonder how amenable people will be to "essential travel only" again?
 

yorkie

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They've already done that with the Merseyside / North West / Midlands restrictions announced the other day, albeit only for residents of the areas.

That does, however, imply that they will do the same everywhere if they extend those restrictions nationally.
There are no actual restrictions on freedom of movement in those areas; it's just something they are saying to deter people. I find it despicable.
I wonder how amenable people will be to "essential travel only" again?
It's a complete nonsense.

During the period of late March to some time in May we were not allowed to leave our homes for any reason except one of the reasons stated; the list of reasons was initially very restrictive (for work, shopping, exercise or to help someone in need) but then opened up to include travel to an open air public place alone, or with one other person, for emotional or physical wellbeing.

This was later changed so that no restriction on freedom of movement applied, except for restrictions on staying overnight (I think this was some time in May?); subsequently these too were dropped on 4th July.

However this was almost impossible to actually enforce and the legislation required to enforce this was quite extraordinary and unprecedented.

I cannot see us ever getting into that situation again.

Some transport operators persisted with "essential travel only" as guidance (not legally enforceable) such as Transport for Wales. Some people were fooled into thinking this was a legal requirement. However TfW replied to an FoI request confirming there was no such restriction and no-one was denied travel:


Some people try to suggest that legislation could be drafted that grants car owners additional rights over public transport users; this is an absurd suggestion and I can confidently say that even the current overly authoritarian Government would not try to implement such a ludicrous law. This was discussed in the following thread (and possibly others):

It just isn't going to happen.

If anyone thinks it is going to happen, they can think it all they want, but it is not going to happen.

If anyone wants it to happen, they are entitled to their views, but I am entitled to have zero respect for those views.
 
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HBP

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Looking at the LNER website & app they already seem to be advising essential travel. I’m booked to go to Newcastle for the day on Tuesday. It’s not essential, but I would like to go.


‘Please be aware that increased restrictions have been declared for parts of the North East, from Friday 18 September until further notice, for:

  • Alnmouth
  • Berwick
  • Durham
  • Morpeth
  • Newcastle
  • Sunderland
  • LNER trains will continue to run to these destinations, please only travel if your journey is essential.’
 

Baxenden Bank

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From the relevent local guidance on gov.uk

Blackburn with Darwen, Oldham, Pendle: In the areas listed above with additional restrictions (all of Oldham and parts of Blackburn with Darwen and Pendle), we advise that you should only use public transport for essential reasons.

Bolton: You should only use public transport for essential reasons.

North East of England: We advise that you should only travel for essential reasons when travelling into, within and out of the affected areas. We encourage you to walk or cycle where possible and to plan your journey in advance, avoiding busy times and routes if possible.

So two areas have 'essential travel' advice for public transport only, and the more recent North-East advice is 'essential travel' for all modes.

As mentioned in another thread, I have yet to find the Merseyside etc guidance which the media and local authorities must have draft or advance copies of.

In all three cases, the suggested essential travel is:
to get to and from work
to get essential food or medical supplies including click and collect services
to support someone who is vulnerable, if no-one else can do so
to travel to and from the homes of others in your support bubble
to attend an Early Years setting, school or college, or to accompany a child who is attending an Early Years setting, school or college, where necessary
to fulfil legal obligations
to seek medical care, or avoid illness, injury or harm

Note that the West Midlands, Leicester and North of England (outside the areas above) restrictions have no advice on travel, except the national advice to face-cover etc.

EDIT Sometime in the evening on Sunday 20 September, the relevent 'local restrictions' were uploaded to gov.uk. The above is now incorrect. I shall produce a revised summary tomorrow. I only checked them all Sunday afternoon!
 
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yorkie

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...two areas have 'essential travel' advice for public transport only, and the more recent North-East advice is 'essential travel' for all modes...
I usually try to avoid describing someone as 'evil' but I am struggling to think why it wouldn't apply to anyone who thinks that car owners should have greater freedoms than public transport users.

Of course, this would never be the case in law.

How anyone could try to give people some sort of moral lecture to say they shouldn't be using public transport to make a journey that no-one is deterred from making by private transport is beyond my comprehension. I find their corrupt morals utterly repulsive.

Just knowing that there are people who think like that, and they are being given a platform to promote these distasteful views, makes me feel angry. I'd relish a face-to-face argument with these people <D
 

Baxenden Bank

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I usually try to avoid describing someone as 'evil' but I am struggling to think why it wouldn't apply to anyone who thinks that car owners should have greater freedoms than public transport users.

Of course, this would never be the case in law.

How anyone could try to give people some sort of moral lecture to say they shouldn't be using public transport to make a journey that no-one is deterred from making by private transport is beyond my comprehension. I find their corrupt morals utterly repulsive.

Just knowing that there are people who think like that, and they are being given a platform to promote these distasteful views, makes me feel angry. I'd relish a face-to-face argument with these people <D
I can see some logic to it.

People going by private car (or cycle/foot, even horseback) are not coming into contact with other people - as part of their journey. Thus the risk of transmission between unrelated people is just not there. Whereas on public transport, the risk can be mitigated but not eliminated - through cleaning regimes, distancing and face-coverings (if you are a believer!).

My gut feeling is that the risk, on a lightly loaded vehicle, if people follow the guidelines, is pretty small. Not much chance of a person with the virus being on the vehicle in the first place, not much chance of it being transferred, not much chance of it being a viable amount of virus, and if all those fail, there is only a small risk that you will get it bad. I would have a different view, and modelling would produce a different result, for a crowded tube or commuter train - you know - the face in armpit situation. Theoretically, the risk could be modelled (garbage in, garbage out applies).

Similarly, when restricting travel by all modes, by reducing the amount of movement generally, fewer people are coming into contact with fewer people in a different geographical area, so less transmission.

I wouldn't regard the designers of the policy as evil, I doubt they have a grudge against public transport users, but I do think that many of the people making decisions on public transport generally (regardless of COVID) do not depend upon it. They may use it out of choice eg for commuting into cities where the drive and parking is awful, but they probably have a car to fall back on if needs must.

Legal? The model regulations I found the other day show that thought has been given to legislating on movement, rather than merely advising against it, including by road in your own vehicle. Obviously legality depends on whether the whole of the COVID Act and the various Statutory Instruments are legal or not.
 

ohgoditsjames

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If we go back to essential travel only, what’s the point of even imposing the 10 pm shut down of bars and pubs? No one will be “allowed” to even go to them.
 

Sean Davidson

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As someone who is barred from driving a car due to medical reasons, I will continue to use public transport as I see fit obviously strictly adhering to the rules regarding social distancing and wearing a face covering, the government needs to start doing what we pay them to do.
 

Bantamzen

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Put very simply, I don't drive so my use of public transport is "essential". And if challenged I will simply respond that my journey is as such, and if pressed to explain I will explain that it is nothing to do with them & I will be asking for their name so that a formal complaint can be lodged.
 

adc82140

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I read essential public transport only as being that if you have an alternative, you should use it, but if you don't then go ahead.
 

Jamiescott1

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Back in April,one day I saw btp at Marylebone asking all disembarking passengers the reason for their journey.
 

Bikeman78

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Moderator note: Split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/could-we-see-a-head-out-to-help-out-scheme.208165/

The idea of encouraging mass public transport during a pandemic and likely second wave just will not happen. The media outcry would be horrendous; folks may disagree with the truth citing the likelihood of catching Covid in such surroundings but that may count for little when the headlines start.

Instead, I suggest that it will be again a move to "essential travel only" as guidance with the hope that it dissuades all but the most entitled people for whom the right to travel on a train or bus when and where they want is seen as an inalienable right.
I think that's a little unfair. On average, 1600 people die every week in the UK. That's means roughly 41,000 people have died for reasons other than Covid since March 23. No one knows how long they have left so if people want to ride on trains, why not. I doubt any seriously vulnerable people are on them.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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I think that's a little unfair. On average, 1600 people die every week in the UK. That's means roughly 41,000 people have died for reasons other than Covid since March 23. No one knows how long they have left so if people want to ride on trains, why not. I doubt any seriously vulnerable people are on them.

It's not unfair. It is not essential to travel on a jolly. None of us know how long we have to live so we should simply live for the day, irrespective of any guidance nay rules or laws?
 

Bikeman78

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It's not unfair. It is not essential to travel on a jolly. None of us know how long we have to live so we should simply live for the day, irrespective of any guidance nay rules or laws?
It's not essential to eat out, go shopping, go to the pub or visit family either. Wouldn't life be boring if we did none of those things. My dad has done very little since March. That's his choice. It makes no difference to him what I do or don't do and he's still happy for me to visit him with the kids, travelling by train to get there.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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It's not essential to eat out, go shopping, go to the pub or visit family either. Wouldn't life be boring if we did none of those things. My dad has done very little since March. That's his choice. It makes no difference to him what I do or don't do and he's still happy for me to visit him with the kids, travelling by train to get there.
Some are clearly more important if not essential (like shopping). Going to the pub (and I love a pub) isn’t.

Everyone can make an argument as to why what they want to do is essential!
 

birchesgreen

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Some are clearly more important if not essential (like shopping). Going to the pub (and I love a pub) isn’t.

Everyone can make an argument as to why what they want to do is essential!

And anyone can make an argument about why something which someone else does is not essential. Doesn't mean they have to be listened to though.
 

yorksrob

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Moderator note: Split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/could-we-see-a-head-out-to-help-out-scheme.208165/

The idea of encouraging mass public transport during a pandemic and likely second wave just will not happen. The media outcry would be horrendous; folks may disagree with the truth citing the likelihood of catching Covid in such surroundings but that may count for little when the headlines start.

Instead, I suggest that it will be again a move to "essential travel only" as guidance with the hope that it dissuades all but the most entitled people for whom the right to travel on a train or bus when and where they want is seen as an inalienable right.

Do I feel 'entitled' not to have my personal movements dictated to me, purely on the basis that I don't have access to motor transport ?

Yes I do, and the use of the word "entitled" doesn't make me feel any different about it I'm afraid.
 

185143

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I've just seen a message on a Northern PIS screen in Lancashire stating "Local lockdown restrictions. Essential travel only following government guidance".

Make of that what you will. I cannot see it being taken notice of as it is only a guideline rather than law like back in April.
 

greyman42

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Some are clearly more important if not essential (like shopping). Going to the pub (and I love a pub) isn’t.
Going to the pub can be the only social interaction that some people get and so it is essential for their mental well being. I think of the elderly who may live alone (or not) but it could be any age.
 

nedchester

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If we go back to essential travel only, what’s the point of even imposing the 10 pm shut down of bars and pubs? No one will be “allowed” to even go to them.

Exactly. And it is why I shall continue to use public transport (with face covering) for going to the pub or possibly having a trip on a 68 out of Liverpool.
 

stevetay3

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It's not essential to eat out, go shopping, go to the pub or visit family either. Wouldn't life be boring if we did none of those things. My dad has done very little since March. That's his choice. It makes no difference to him what I do or don't do and he's still happy for me to visit him with the kids, travelling by train to get there.
In what way is it not essential to go shopping for food for example.
 

james60059

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A lot of people have shunned the railways because of their "essential travel only" mantra. I know a couple who have, and to be quite frank, I don't blame them.
 

Horizon22

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Quite possibly we may. Even if we don't, the government's current messaging for workers/commuters is basically that. Saying that the leisure market for rail continues to rise (albeit slowly) and is one of the only forms of "tourism" currently going on; whether this rise continues after summer is a different question.
 

Baxenden Bank

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Summary of travel restrictions at 1900 on 22 September 2020, as per link to gov.uk local restrictions page


Bolton: local restrictions
We advise that you should only travel for essential reasons when travelling into, within and out of Bolton.

Greater Manchester: local restrictions
In the affected local area in Oldham, we advise that you should only use public transport for essential reasons

Leicester: local restrictions
None

North East of England: local restrictions
We advise that you should only travel for essential reasons when travelling into, within and out of the affected areas.

North West of England: local restrictions
In the affected local areas, we advise that you should only use public transport for essential reasons

West Midlands: local restrictions
None
 
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