County boundary changes/renaming discussion.

[BrianW]

I think you will find that people living around the edges of cities don't want to spend their 'hard-earned' money on 'subsidising' their 'skiving/ layabout/ undeserving' poorer inner-city neighbours with 'high-spending Labour councils'.
Why are the 'County set' so-called?

 

[bussnapperwm]

True but for Solihull the postal address changed from Solihull, Warwickshire to Solihull, West Midlands which some were unhappy about, one possibility at the time may have been an effect on desirability and property values.

I don't doubt Royal Sutton Coldfield would rather have remained in Warwickshire too.

Just like Stourbridge was Worcestershire... yet where I was born 2 miles north would have been in deepest darkest South Staffs

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

Every definition except postal addresses, BBC and ITV regions, and police force boundaries.

Postal counties were fully abolished. And BBC Regions like Look North, and Police force areas like West Mercia, can't be considered counties unless they match an actual county.

Middlesbrough is as a matter of local government law, in the County of ... wait for it ... Middlesbrough!

Every unitary authority in England has an act calling the area a county, see Humberside's break up refers to the four new councils, including Hull as counties, it's confusing language, which existed with the county boroughs in the past. The real counties remain in existence despite other areas in many non-daily fields using the term county. Middlesbrough is Yorkshire.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Postal counties were fully abolished. And BBC Regions like Look North, and Police force areas like West Mercia, can't be considered counties unless they match an actual county.

But all are far more commonly used than the "historic" counties that place Middlesbrough in Yorkshire and Todmorden in Lancashire. Postal counties may have been abolished, but most domestic mail in the UK still has one, required or not.

 

[21C101]

No doubt people in Wales will think of an "reasonable excuse" reason to visit Chester, Whitchurch, Oswestry and Shrewsbury etc, and just happen to drop into a pub or nightclub whilst they are there.

I see Shrewsbury Town FC are playing at home on 29th December and 2nd January. They might get a few extra supporters from West of Offas Dyke, where going to a football match is now illegal.

That is an important difference between Scotland and Wales. North of the border lie tens of miles of near uninhabited moorland before you reach the populated areas of the central belt. It is a real, natural, border, in the same way as the Channel is.

The welsh border in contrast cuts through the suburbs of Chester in the north and through the Bristol/Newport/Cardiff conurbation in the south and is very artificial (especially in Monmouthshire which many contend is part of England not Wales (that's how the English Democrat Party got going standing in Monmouthshire).

The dubious status of Monmouthshire having a centuries old History, but of little real world consequence until the Assembly appeared and foisted Welsh language roadsigns and compulsory Welsh in schools on them, and now this covid going to work ban and the like.

I am a little surprised that no serious campaign for a referendum on abolishing the Welsh Assembly has yet been mounted.

 

[Dai Corner]

That is an important difference between Scotland and Wales. North of the border lie tens of miles of near uninhabited moorland before you reach the populated areas of the central belt. It is a real, natural, border, in the same way as the Channel is.

The welsh border in contrast cuts through the suburbs of Chester in the north and through the Bristol/Newport/Cardiff conurbation in the south and is very artificial (especially in Monmouthshire which many contend is part of England not Wales (that's how the English Democrat Party got going standing in Monmouthshire).

The dubious status of Monmouthshire having a centuries old History, but of little real world consequence until the Assembly appeared and foisted Welsh language roadsigns and compulsory Welsh in schools on them, and now this covid going to work ban and the like.

I am a little surprised that no serious campaign for a referendum on abolishing the Welsh Assembly has yet been mounted.

Monmouthshire indisputably became part of Wales on 1 April 1974, following the passing of the 1972 Local Government Act. Nobody asked the residents and the vote was passed by a handful of MPs late one evening.

There is an Abolish the Welsh Assembly Party. Some Members of the Welsh Parliament defected to it but none were re-elected in the last election in May 2021.

 

[21C101]

Monmouthshire indisputably became part of Wales on 1 April 1974, following the passing of the 1972 Local Government Act. Nobody asked the residents and the vote was passed by a handful of MPs late one evening.

There is an Abolish the Welsh Assembly Party. Some Members of the Welsh Parliament defected to it but none were re-elected in the last election in May 2021.

From what I can make out it is one of those places that would end up being partitioned in the unlikely event that Wales and England ever became separate sovereign states.

In the West places like Abergavenny, Ebbw Vale etc are as Welsh as you can get.

In the east, places like Chepstow and Monmouth quite the opposite : and probably ought to have been moved into Gloucestershire and Herefordshire by a boundary commission.

 

[35B]

From what I can make out it is one of those places that would end up being partitioned in the unlikely event that Wales and England ever became separate sovereign states.

In the West places like Abergavenny, Ebbw Vale etc are as Welsh as you can get.

In the east, places like Chepstow and Monmouth quite the opposite : and probably ought to have been moved into Gloucestershire and Herefordshire by a boundary commission.

I’m not sure that’s a very accurate reading of the institutional history of the county. It has, especially in the east, been debated, but it’s far from clear that the 1972 Act did any more than formalise an existing direction of travel, even if vocally objected to by a few.

 

[Furryanimal]

Monmouthshire indisputably became part of Wales on 1 April 1974, following the passing of the 1972 Local Government Act. Nobody asked the residents and the vote was passed by a handful of MPs late one evening.

There is an Abolish the Welsh Assembly Party. Some Members of the Welsh Parliament defected to it but none were re-elected in the last election in May 2021.

Having lived all my life in the old county of Monmouthshire I have never considered myself to be anything other than Welsh....

 

[Western Sunset]

Lots of places aren't actually where they say they are. Take Bournemouth, for example. Was in Hampshire, now Dorset. But as a unitary authority, now part of BCP (Bournemouth, Christchurch and Poole. Bournemouth Airport is in Christchurch, the main campus of Bournemouh University is in Poole and the Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra is based in Poole too.
On a railway note, back in the day of the Bournemouth Belle, it called at Bournemouth Central (then in Hampshire), entered Dorset briefly before turning to re-enter Hants at B'mth West. The present Bournemouth Traincare Depot actually straddles the old county boundary - one end of the carriage cleaning shed was in Hants, the other in Dorset.

 

[Dai Corner]

In the east, places like Chepstow and Monmouth quite the opposite : and probably ought to have been moved into Gloucestershire and Herefordshire by a boundary commission.

It would ironic if Monmouth ended up outside its Shire.

Having lived all my life in the old county of Monmouthshire I have never considered myself to be anything other than Welsh..

If you're older than 47, some would dispute that!

 

[Busaholic]

I’m not sure that’s a very accurate reading of the institutional history of the county. It has, especially in the east, been debated, but it’s far from clear that the 1972 Act did any more than formalise an existing direction of travel, even if vocally objected to by a few.

For centuries up to 1972 the Houses of Parliament passed laws/edicts/pronouncements etc relating to Wales as being applicable to 'Wales and Monmouthshire'. This is how I always remembered it from my childhood. which ended well before 1972. Hence I grew up not accepting Monmouthshire as being (legally) part of Wales, because otherwise why the distinction? My father used to get particularly exercised about it, having a very Welsh mother who'd married a man whose surname meant 'Welshman' even though it's more associated with a certain Scot butchered by the English close to the modern Smithfield!

 

[duncanp]

Just like Stourbridge was Worcestershire... yet where I was born 2 miles north would have been in deepest darkest South Staffs

Near where I live is a street called Three Shires Oak Road, so called because there was at one time a tree at the point where the county boundaries of Warwickshire, Worcestershire and Staffordshire met.

All now in the West Midlands county for administrative purposes, but the boundary between the boroughs of Birmingham and Sandwell, and thus the former boundary between Warwickshire and Staffordshire, runs right past my front door. (with me on the Sandwell side)

 

[Dai Corner]

For centuries up to 1972 the Houses of Parliament passed laws/edicts/pronouncements etc relating to Wales as being applicable to 'Wales and Monmouthshire'. This is how I always remembered it from my childhood. which ended well before 1972. Hence I grew up not accepting Monmouthshire as being (legally) part of Wales, because otherwise why the distinction? My father used to get particularly exercised about it, having a very Welsh mother who'd married a man whose surname meant 'Welshman' even though it's more associated with a certain Scot butchered by the English close to the modern Smithfield!

Indeed. Monmouthshire was governed as part of Wales as a convenience, given the physical barrier of the Severn estuary between it and London. A barrier which became less significant once tunnelled under in 1886 and bridged in 1966.

 

[317 forever]

It would ironic if Monmouth ended up outside its Shire.

If you're older than 47, some would dispute that!

Berwick is not just outside Berwickshire, but in a different country! I know the history behind it is controversial.

 

[edwin_m]

Avon calling.

Avon ( Bristol, Bath and surrounding area ) was abolished after around 20 years. I'm unsure if the current county boarders are the same as before. Similarly Hereford and Worcester, for which the name Malvernshire was considered, was both formed and abolished around the same dates.

Now known in some circles as CUBA, Councils that Used to Be Avon. Two of them are South Gloucestershire and Bath & North East Somerset.

Near where I live is a street called Three Shires Oak Road, so called because there was at one time a tree at the point where the county boundaries of Warwickshire, Worcestershire and Staffordshire met.

There's also No Man's Heath, near which is the meeting point of Leicestershire, Warwickshire and Staffordshire. Less than a mile away is the meeting point of Leicestershire, Staffordshire and Derbyshire.

 

[Western Sunset]

Now known in some circles as CUBA, Councils that Used to Be Avon. Two of them are South Gloucestershire and Bath & North East Somerset.

Much of what many would consider being in Bristol, is actually in South Glous, eg UWE and Bristol Parkway

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

*=Lancashire/Greater Manchester can keep Saddleworth, we'll keep everything East of Summit Tunnel.

What is the nearest Yorkshire settlement to the west coast of England and what is the distance?

 

[THC]

In the east, places like Chepstow and Monmouth quite the opposite : and probably ought to have been moved into Gloucestershire and Herefordshire by a boundary commission.

"Probably ought to". Not the first time a Boundary Commission (or lack thereof) have been found wanting. Counties Tyrone and Fermanagh and the City of Derry are still awaiting their Boundary Commission to move them into the Irish Free State...

THC

 

[Gricer99]

There are lots of folk in the Northern towns of Greater Manchester who refuse to acknowledge the county and steadfastly insist they always have been and always will be part of Lancashire.

 

[johnnychips]

What is the nearest Yorkshire settlement to the west coast of England and what is the distance?

Possibly Ingleton to Morcambe, 21 miles.

 

[Killingworth]

How have Hull and Humberside avoided this thread, so far?

 

[contrex]

True but for Solihull the postal address changed from Solihull, Warwickshire to Solihull, West Midlands which some were unhappy about, one possibility at the time may have been an effect on desirability and property values.

I don't doubt Royal Sutton Coldfield would rather have remained in Warwickshire too.

County names haven't been part of a fully-qualified postal address since 1996. Since then, the outward code (first half) of the postcode provides that sorting function.

 

[Marton]

Possibly Ingleton to Morcambe, 21 miles.

Low Bentham is west of Ingleton. About 20km to the coast

Dunsop Bridge, now in Lancashire, but part of the West Riding, is about the same distance from the south of Morcambe Bay, near Pilling

 

[backontrack]

Newmarket into Cambridgeshire, please!

 

[adrock1976]

What about Peterborough as it seems to have an identity crisis?

It was in Northamptonshire until 1974, then moved into Cambridgeshire, now seemingly having a Universal Declaration of Independence (going by Peterborough and Cambridgeshire Combined Authority or something like that).

 

[Marton]

What about Peterborough as it seems to have an identity crisis?

It was in Northamptonshire until 1974, then moved into Cambridgeshire, now seemingly having a Universal Declaration of Independence (going by Peterborough and Cambridgeshire Combined Authority or something like that).

Actually a little more complicated than that.

1889 to 1965 the Soke of Peterborough was a County foe administration, but ceremonially in Northamptonshire.

From 1965 to 1974 it was moved to Huntingdonshire.

 

[Calthrop]

Actually a little more complicated than that.

1889 to 1965 the Soke of Peterborough was a County foe administration, but ceremonially in Northamptonshire.

From 1965 to 1974 it was moved to Huntingdonshire.

I recall that around 1969, I was seeking to post an item from Oxford to Peterborough. The post-office clerk at Oxford cast doubt on my addressing: "Peterborough is in Lincolnshire". My riposte was, "it's in Huntingdonshire / Huntingdon & Peterborough -- I live there, I ought to know." The clerk wasn't having any -- "it's in Lincolnshire". In the end, we "agreed to disagree", and let the chips fly where they might. The package got successfully to its destination.

 

[backontrack]

I recall that around 1969, I was seeking to post an item from Oxford to Peterborough. The post-office clerk at Oxford cast doubt on my addressing: "Peterborough is in Lincolnshire". My riposte was, "it's in Huntingdonshire / Huntingdon & Peterborough -- I live there, I ought to know." The clerk wasn't having any -- "it's in Lincolnshire". In the end, we "agreed to disagree", and let the chips fly where they might. The package got successfully to its destination.

How infuriating! You have more patience than I do...

 

[Calthrop]

How infuriating! You have more patience than I do...

I was tempted to go all medieval on his ass -- saying "Verily, sirrah, thou art an idiot; and wouldst be more fitly employed cleaning privies"; but I refrained.