Court Hearing

[HelpMe406]

Talk to a lawyer. They will know whether there is a realistic risk of being sent to prison.

(By the way - are you quite sure that the people that you are close with aren't winding you up? They might think that it's funny - or want you to be uncomfortable so that you don't dodge your fare again.)

Okay thank you I will call a lawyer tomorrow. Weather they are trying to wind me up or not I will never do this again I’ve stared paying for my travel

 

[GlitterUnicorn]

This is tricky because one could argue that because one is allowed to go by what ever name one wants and that by giving his brothers address he is contactable the OP could just pay the fine when it comes

If anyone asks him he can say I have adopted the false name and I was reachable and I paid the fine and what are you going to do about it?
.
The downside of coming clean is that he gets worse punishment

Deed Poll Office (D·P·O)

Everything you need to legally change your name in the U.K.

deedpolloffice.com

In the U.K. you can change your name (or your child’s name) at any time.

Changing your name is a legal matter, which means there isn’t an “official” place where you go to register a change of name. In law, you can simply adopt a new name and start using it.

I do suggest that if he does pay the fine then never mentioning again his foolish behaviour would be prudent

This may actually be the case, you've given an inaccurate name but you have also given an address you're contactable at, paying the fine might just be the end of it. You're not benefiting from the deception, and you've presumably only lied to a railway ticket inspector. I'm not willing to believe that it's in any way possible for someone to be sent to prison on the basis that they'd lied about their name to a member of railway staff, I absolutely doubt it's perverting the course of justice either.

Under (s.5(3)) of the Regulation of Railways Act 1889 it's an offence to (having failed to pay a fare) give a false name or address to a Railway Officer. For a first offence though the maximum punishment is a Level 3 fine (£1,000).
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Vict/52-53/57/section/5

Only in the case of repeat offenders is it possible for the court to sentence someone to up to 3 months in Prison. Considering the sentencing council guidelines this seems unlikely.
https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.u...court/item/railway-fare-evasion-revised-2017/

I'd echo what the Fawkes Cat said. People you talk to (including on here) might be alarmist or misled or winding you up for fun. The chances of going to prison seem pretty minimal but you should think about speaking to a lawyer about it.

 

[Banana]

No I intend to pay by using a debit card

Take cash to court and pay the fine on the day.

 

[ukkid]

Edit

My post adds nothing new
The OP needs proper legal advice not advice from here. . As Jumble others have stated says using a different name is legal. It's an offence for things like when you use a different name to avoid detection, commit crimes or give someone else details.

 

[Enthusiast]

Take cash to court and pay the fine on the day.

You cannot make a payment at a Magistrates' Court. Defendants who face fines/costs etc. are provided with an account number together with details of methods of payment.

 

[Trackman]

You cannot make a payment at a Magistrates' Court. Defendants who face fines/costs etc. are provided with an account number together with details of methods of payment.

When did this happen? They used to have cash windows and some had ATM like machines for people who don’t hold bank accounts or prefer paying cash.

 

[WesternLancer]

When did this happen? They used to have cash windows and some had ATM like machines for people who don’t hold bank accounts or prefer paying cash.

No idea, but loads of orgs have got out of cash handling where they can as it saves the costs of related things like securicor collection and delivery of the cash etc
eg
My local council you used to be able to go to an office and pay council tax / council charges / council house rents - that's all gone now in the last 5 years or so.
I recall when you could pay your electricity / gas bills at the retail shop they operated - closed in the 90s.

Tendency to allow people to pay stuff at post offices or Pay Point shops transferred that cash handling risk over to those shops that were already handling cash anyway, so it made sense in some ways, and they were open for longer and more of them.

Maybe the court service takes the same view?

 

[Enthusiast]

When did this happen?

Probably five years or more ago. It doesn't only apply to cash. You cannot make payments by any method including cards, etc. I think the change was made for two reasons: to save on ancillary staff needed to be employed in the courts but also because there seemed to be an increasing number of errors where people had made payments at the court but they were not properly recorded, meaning they often ended up back before The Beak for non-payment.

 

[jumble]

Edit

My post adds nothing new
The OP needs proper legal advice not advice from here. . As Jumble others have stated says using a different name is legal. It's an offence for things like when you use a different name to avoid detection, commit crimes or give someone else details.

The only other thing I would add is that it has occurred to me how many people might be summoned to court who are not on systems that the courts could quickly access.
Illegal immigrants, Asylum seekers who are appealing, Foreign Visitors and probably a few other catagories
My suspicion is that courts would not seek to do much checking on identity until a fine is unpaid assuming that the prosecuting authority have submitted the correct details
My reasoning is "who is going to pay for this investigation?"
The court are not going to care who pays the fine or what relationship they have with the defendant.

I personally believe that if the OP pays any fines that come their way then they stand a very good chance of getting away with their indiscretion .
However I am not a lawyer and suggest that proper legal advice would be prudent

 

[contrex]

Regarding Jumble's reply, I don't know if this is relevant or if it will get deleted, but here goes. In 1975 as a foolish young man I got banned from my local public library for unpaid late return fines, so I re-joined under a false name, which was my real name, first name & surname reversed. All went well until I lost a book after a house move and could not return it. I got a summons to the town's Magistrates Court for "failing to return a library book when required to do so by the Borough Librarian". I turned up ready to pay a fine. The police officer (a sergeant) managing the day's list said "Name?" and without thinking, I said my real name. He looked down his list, frowned and said "I can't see that, but I can see YYY XXX". I said "Er.. that's a name I made up to join the library". He fixed me with a look I shall never forget, and eventually said, "You'd better stick to that, then, because we don't want to get the magistrates all confused, now do we?". I paid my £7 fine and that was that. An annoying thing was that I found the book in a moving crate the week after, but the library said they did not want it back.

 

[CrispyUK]

I would imagine the problem is going to be the associated conviction, rather than the fine. I am no expert in this area, but there must be some checks in place to ensure a criminal conviction from the court is being recorded against an actual person? Otherwise this would make a mockery of the whole criminal record/police national computer system, etc. as you could just provide a different name for every crime to avoid building up a big long rap sheet of previous misdemeanours against your name.

Depending on the details the OP provided, this could result in the wrong person having this added to their record, or a flag being raised at some point because the name given doesn’t exist.

If this was with the likes of TIL and an out of court settlement was being offered then you could easily get away with just paying this off under the wrong name I’d have thought, as that’s the outcome they really want, far better if they can get the “offender” to cough up some cash straight away than have to go through the full court process!

But given this is with the courts, I’m not sure you could hide behind the false details.

 

[WesternLancer]

Regarding Jumble's reply, I don't know if this is relevant or if it will get deleted, but here goes. In 1975 as a foolish young man I got banned from my local public library for unpaid late return fines, so I re-joined under a false name, which was my real name, first name & surname reversed. All went well until I lost a book after a house move and could not return it. I got a summons to the town's Magistrates Court for "failing to return a library book when required to do so by the Borough Librarian". I turned up ready to pay a fine. The police officer (a sergeant) managing the day's list said "Name?" and without thinking, I said my real name. He looked down his list, frowned and said "I can't see that, but I can see YYY XXX". I said "Er.. that's a name I made up to join the library". He fixed me with a look I shall never forget, and eventually said, "You'd better stick to that, then, because we don't want to get the magistrates all confused, now do we?". I paid my £7 fine and that was that. An annoying thing was that I found the book in a moving crate the week after, but the library said they did not want it back.

Those were the days when you could clearly expect your local council to uphold the law!

I guess only question is - have you still got the booK?

I assume you have had to stick to that new name ever since, given the Serjeant's advice
Great story by the way.

 

[contrex]

Yes, I still have it. LTC Rolt's Red for Danger, 1966 edition. When I tried to give it back to the library, they said it had been written off, and a new copy ordered, and they didn't want it back.

 

[WesternLancer]

Yes, I still have it. LTC Rolt's Red for Danger, 1966 edition. When I tried to give it back to the library, they said it had been written off, and a new copy ordered, and they didn't want it back.

well, it's a classic text of course!

 

[SickyNicky]

Yes, I still have it. LTC Rolt's Red for Danger, 1966 edition. When I tried to give it back to the library, they said it had been written off, and a new copy ordered, and they didn't want it back.

Oh my goodness, that takes me back. I looked up my 1978 edition which is looking rather bedraggled.

Back on topic, OP - may I ask what the solicitor suggested after you contacted them?

 

[AmicableMan]

My advice here would be to contact the TOC involved and inform them of your correct details. It's likely that instead of the court themselves pursuing a perverting the course of justice charge that the TOC may instead use the lesser "Regulation of Railways 1889 Act offence: 5(3) (c)Having failed to pay his fare, gives in reply to a request by an officer of a railway company a false name or address" offence.

Whilst this particular offence potentially carries a custodial sentence in itself (Maximum 3 months), I have never seen any imprisoned for it, especially if the offender admitted the offence to the prosecution before the case was heard.

 

[scrapy]

I would imagine the problem is going to be the associated conviction, rather than the fine. I am no expert in this area, but there must be some checks in place to ensure a criminal conviction from the court is being recorded against an actual person? Otherwise this would make a mockery of the whole criminal record/police national computer system, etc. as you could just provide a different name for every crime to avoid building up a big long rap sheet of previous misdemeanours against your name.

Depending on the details the OP provided, this could result in the wrong person having this added to their record, or a flag being raised at some point because the name given doesn’t exist.

If this was with the likes of TIL and an out of court settlement was being offered then you could easily get away with just paying this off under the wrong name I’d have thought, as that’s the outcome they really want, far better if they can get the “offender” to cough up some cash straight away than have to go through the full court process!

But given this is with the courts, I’m not sure you could hide behind the false details.

Exactly. When you make a plea don't you have to give details of your earnings so a court knows how much they can fine you. I'm pretty sure you'd be required to put your national insurance number on this. Of course a made up person won't have one of these.

If there has been no correspondance with the court on behalf of the made up name by the op then I can't see how they have perverted the course of justice. Giving a false name is an offence under RORA, however given no legal action had started at this point, I don't think the threshold for perverting the course of justice has been met, however if the OP communicates with the court on behalf of the made up name or pays any fine for them then that's another matter.

 

[BanburyBlue]

I don’t know how to come clean, I’ve spoken to people and they have said when it comes I should just pay for the fine given to me by the court.

Hi, I assume the court has got your correct address, and as you know the court appearance date I guess they must have? So you plead guilty, the court will decide your sentence. I think this is all done by post/email and you don't need to attend unless you want to. You should then receive a letter telling you what the fine is and what you have to do to pay it.

 

[ta-toget]

I assume the court has got your correct address

A few months ago I was fined and gave my brothers address with a different name.

It seems the OP have their brother's address, though it seems like they might have access to it.

 

[jumble]

Exactly. When you make a plea don't you have to give details of your earnings so a court knows how much they can fine you. I'm pretty sure you'd be required to put your national insurance number on this. Of course a made up person won't have one of these.

If there has been no correspondance with the court on behalf of the made up name by the op then I can't see how they have perverted the course of justice. Giving a false name is an offence under RORA, however given no legal action had started at this point, I don't think the threshold for perverting the course of justice has been met, however if the OP communicates with the court on behalf of the made up name or pays any fine for them then that's another matter.

No you don't have to give income details
Also as I have previously pointed out upthread the OP is legally entitled to use what ever name they wish and also there will be many people who will not have an NI number to hand over

Having said this the OP should still seek proper legal advice as to whether to Come Clean to the TOC, Come clean to the Court or simply plead guilty , not send in any details and hope the court will be so busy with Covid that they are sent a fine that they can simply pay and move on with their life

I have always avoided wanting to be like a cow who bangs on the door of the abattoir and shouts "Let Me In" !

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3. Definition of relevant weekly income – Sentencing

www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk

Where an offender has failed to provide information, or the court is not satisfied that it has been given sufficient reliable information, it is entitled to make such determination as it thinks fit regarding the financial circumstances of the offender (CJA 2003, s.164(5)). Any determination should be clearly stated on the court records for use in any subsequent variation or enforcement proceedings. In such cases, a record should also be made of the applicable fine band and the court’s assessment of the position of the offence within that band based on the seriousness of the offence.

Where there is no information on which a determination can be made, the court should proceed on the basis of an assumed relevant weekly income of £440. This is derived from national median pre- tax earnings*; a gross figure is used as, in the absence of financial information from the offender, it is not possible to calculate appropriate deductions.
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[tspaul26]

No you don't have to give income details

I am seeing more and more the official request for financial information being included de rigeur with the originating papers. If it is, it is an offence not to provide details.

 

[jumble]

I am seeing more and more the official request for financial information being included de rigeur with the originating papers. If it is, it is an offence not to provide details.

I am sure you are correct it is an offence, but am reasonably confident that if you don't then the court are not going to waste time going after you but will just fine at the average
If the accused was known to be wealthy then it might be a different story

 

[tspaul26]

I am sure you are correct it is an offence, but am reasonably confident that if you don't then the court are not going to waste time going after you but will just fine at the average
If the accused was known to be wealthy then it might be a different story

Probably true, but the fundamental point is that there are circumstances where you do have to provide details.

Lack of co-operation can also be an aggravating factor as to sentence.

 

[HelpMe406]

I called the court trying to explain everything on behalf as someone else. Can they trace my phone number back to me???????????? Also I’m going to speak to a lawyer.

 

[Western Sunset]

I don't think trying to play the court system as someone else, will be in your long term best interests.

Contacting a lawyer sounds a much better option.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

I called the court trying to explain everything on behalf as someone else. Can they trace my phone number back to me???????????? Also I’m going to speak to a lawyer.

I don't think trying to play the court system as someone else, will be in your long term best interests.

Contacting a lawyer sounds a much better option.

I'm with @Western Sunset here. There's an old phrase that says 'when you're in a hole, stop digging'. It's possible that you'll get away with using the different name, but what if you don't? The more that you try and disguise things, the less it looks like one silly decision, and the more it looks like a deliberate attempt to avoid responsibility. It might be (as others have said upthread) that anyone is allowed to use any name they want - but I'm pretty certain that you're not allowed to do it to try and evade responsibility.

The more you go on like this, the worse things will be if you are found out. Save yourself trouble and come clean now. And as many of us have said, go and talk to a lawyer.

 

[ainsworth74]

I think the Forum has gone as far as it can go on this one. Thanks to all for your assistance but @HelpMe406 now has the information that they need and has been well advised to seek professional assistance from a solicitor qualified to deal with criminal matters. You can find details of local firms using the Law Society website (here) any which offer assistance in crime/criminal matters will be able to assist. Most are likely to offer a free initial consultation or a free thirty minutes or similar (ask when you contact them).

 

[HelpMe406]

I just wanted to say I managed to get a lawyer and managed to get an out of court settlement for using a false name and address . I just wanted to say thank you everyone who offered advice and I will never make this mistake again. I’m really happy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Good to hear. Thanks for letting us know.

 

[HelpMe406]

Good to hear. Thanks for letting us know.

Feels good I can finally sleep peacefully and don’t need to look over my shoulder anymore. Thank you