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COVID-19 sampling study finds no trace of virus at major rail stations

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DerekC

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(Hopefully this isn't covered in another thread - if so I can't find it)

This study is receiving quite wide publicity and is certainly helpful to getting people back on trains:

https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/227473/covid-19-sampling-study-finds-trace-virus/#comments

A study sampling the environment at four major railway stations in England has found no traces of the virus which causes COVID-19.

The research, commissioned by Network Rail with laboratory analysis carried out at Imperial College London, collected surface samples from four of the busiest rail stations in England, swabbing major touch points – such as escalator handrails, ticket machines and benches – as well as taking air samples from station concourses.

Samples were collected from London Euston, Birmingham New Street, Liverpool Lime Street and Manchester Piccadilly in January and in June 2021, as well as on several inter-city train routes, before analysis for the presence of SARS-CoV-2 virus by Imperial researchers.

All lab tests showed no COVID-19 contamination of any surface tested or airborne particles of the virus in the station or on trains.

Dr David Green, Senior Research Fellow in the Environmental Research Group within Imperial’s School of Public Health, explained: “In the same way that a swab is used to take a COVID-19 test in the nose and throat and sent to the lab, we use a filter to collect any virus particles in the air and swabs to collect viruses on surfaces.

“This approach provides a way of quantifying the amount of virus circulating in these public environments and the effect of mitigation strategies like cleaning and wearing face coverings. This is part of a wider programme of work with the public transport sector to understand where this virus is most prevalent so that we can return to pre-pandemic activities as safely as possible.”

The conclusions from the independent report say that enhanced cleaning methods across the rail industry and widespread wearing of face coverings by passengers are key reasons for the negative results.

Rob Mole, senior programme manager for Network Rail’s COVID response, said: “We want all passengers to travel in confidence on the railway network and we will keep doing our part by rigorously cleaning trains and stations.

“We ask passengers to do their bit too by wearing face coverings while travelling out of respect for others so we can all stop the spread of COVID-19.”

Between the two testing dates passenger numbers across all four stations increased by 287%.

For surface testing, swabs covered an area of approximately 25cm2 which was then placed in a vial containing virus transportation medium.

Air samples were taken using a high-volume sampler for one hour on the station concourse, or the duration of the train journey. After sampling the filters were placed in a vial containing virus transportation medium.

Samples were kept cold following sampling and transported via refrigerated transport to the laboratory overnight.

A copy of the full report is available on request from
 
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Pete_uk

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So public transport is relatively safe and clean then and not the cesspit of germs we were lead to believe.
 

davews

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I met a chap the other day who I hadn't seen since before lockdown. First thing he said was 'been on any trains?' as if it is still the most dangerous thing out. I realised very early on that they were probably the safest place to be and have had no fear of them ever.
 

westv

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So public transport is relatively safe and clean then and not the cesspit of germs we were lead to believe.
It would have been interesting to know what the results might have been pre Covid.
 

scotrail158713

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Does this mean we can stop spraying millions of litres of disinfectant all over the place?
 

Bayum

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Does this mean we can stop spraying millions of litres of disinfectant all over the place?
Maybe the millions of litres of disinfectant is what’s keeping everything clean?

It would be interesting to see what the results would look like now that mask wearing is not enforceable.
 

Pete_uk

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There is a interning point here, because on the one hand all the disinfectant spraing is good to stop germs from spreading about but on the other hand we need germs for our immune system.
 

Busaholic

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Perhaps all it confirms is something I have long suspected - that the infection is almost always spread from human to human. There is no evidence, for instance, that any bank note or coin has been contaminated by Covid, in spite of all the anti-money hysteria. Bit like when I was growing up and the myth that V.D. could be caused by lavatory seats (even that pregnancy could result from sperm on a toilet seat!!)
 

LAX54

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Some ‘studies’ have shown trains to be quite grim with a number of harmful bacteria located on seats and tray tables.
https://www.wired.co.uk/article/london-underground-bacteria-tubes
https://www.thesun.co.uk/living/4115383/watchdog-train-conditions-bacteria-bbc-one/
Not only your local train, but even more local .....your home :) .........

Researchers took bacteria from 100 different dish towels after a month of use to figure out both the type and amount of bacteria that had grown on them. 49% of the towels showed growth of bacteria normally found in the human body. Of those 49 towels, almost three quarters grew bacteria normally found in the intestines such as E. coli and Enterococcus species. Another 14% grew what is commonly referred to as “staph”, Staphylococcus aureus, which is commonly found on human skin and in the respiratory tract, according to the study. According to NPR, a study suggested that many kitchen sponges could be inhabited by around 360 different species of bacteria

Your toothbrush is home to more than a 100 million types of bacteria including E. coli and staphylococci (Staph) bacteria according to the University of Manchester reports On Health. While the University of Alabama found that faecal germs were on your toothbrush too. Luckily your mouth is already full of bacteria so you probably won’t get sick from your toothbrush, but there’s still a risk. You should store your toothbrush far away from wherever your toilet is, or keep it in the medicine cabinet or a drawer instead. But also make sure your toothbrush dries properly between brushings as keeping it wet is a breeding ground for bacteria.

But back to the orginal post, were trains or the bus or even the local shops actually as bad as the 'Scientists' made them out to be ?
 

Bayum

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Not only your local train, but even more local .....your home :) .........

Researchers took bacteria from 100 different dish towels after a month of use to figure out both the type and amount of bacteria that had grown on them. 49% of the towels showed growth of bacteria normally found in the human body. Of those 49 towels, almost three quarters grew bacteria normally found in the intestines such as E. coli and Enterococcus species. Another 14% grew what is commonly referred to as “staph”, Staphylococcus aureus, which is commonly found on human skin and in the respiratory tract, according to the study. According to NPR, a study suggested that many kitchen sponges could be inhabited by around 360 different species of bacteria

Your toothbrush is home to more than a 100 million types of bacteria including E. coli and staphylococci (Staph) bacteria according to the University of Manchester reports On Health. While the University of Alabama found that faecal germs were on your toothbrush too. Luckily your mouth is already full of bacteria so you probably won’t get sick from your toothbrush, but there’s still a risk. You should store your toothbrush far away from wherever your toilet is, or keep it in the medicine cabinet or a drawer instead. But also make sure your toothbrush dries properly between brushings as keeping it wet is a breeding ground for bacteria.

But back to the orginal post, were trains or the bus or even the local shops actually as bad as the 'Scientists' made them out to be ?
Eurgh, don’t. My toothbrush, flannels and makeup brushes are kept in a cupboard so I don’t stress about the toilet being flushed and particles finding their way onto things :(
 

yorksrob

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Not only your local train, but even more local .....your home :) .........

Researchers took bacteria from 100 different dish towels after a month of use to figure out both the type and amount of bacteria that had grown on them. 49% of the towels showed growth of bacteria normally found in the human body. Of those 49 towels, almost three quarters grew bacteria normally found in the intestines such as E. coli and Enterococcus species. Another 14% grew what is commonly referred to as “staph”, Staphylococcus aureus, which is commonly found on human skin and in the respiratory tract, according to the study. According to NPR, a study suggested that many kitchen sponges could be inhabited by around 360 different species of bacteria

Your toothbrush is home to more than a 100 million types of bacteria including E. coli and staphylococci (Staph) bacteria according to the University of Manchester reports On Health. While the University of Alabama found that faecal germs were on your toothbrush too. Luckily your mouth is already full of bacteria so you probably won’t get sick from your toothbrush, but there’s still a risk. You should store your toothbrush far away from wherever your toilet is, or keep it in the medicine cabinet or a drawer instead. But also make sure your toothbrush dries properly between brushings as keeping it wet is a breeding ground for bacteria.

But back to the orginal post, were trains or the bus or even the local shops actually as bad as the 'Scientists' made them out to be ?

That's why I drip dry !
 

Peter Mugridge

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Eurgh, don’t. My toothbrush, flannels and makeup brushes are kept in a cupboard so I don’t stress about the toilet being flushed and particles finding their way onto things :(
Always close the lid before flushing as well...
 

johnnychips

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I sympathise with you @Bayum if you have an immunity difficulty, but most people need to interact with stuff to develop immunity. Putting the toilet seat down just because your toothbrush is in the same room?
 

yorkie

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Unless you have no immune system like me…
Not true; people who are immunocompromised don't have quite such good immune systems as others, but still pretty good immune systems really. If you had no functioning immune system you'd be dead.

Our immune systems are amazing but we do need to ensure we are exposed to pathogens in other to be healthy.

...a lack of exposure to bacteria, viruses, and allergens may prevent the normal development of the immune system...
 

Bayum

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Not true; people who are immunocompromised don't have quite such good immune systems as others, but still pretty good immune systems really. If you had no functioning immune system you'd be dead.

Our immune systems are amazing but we do need to ensure we are exposed to pathogens in other to be healthy.

I have 0 neutrophils and my t-cell memory is shocking. Lack of functioning immune system is why those having transplants/splenectomy/massive immunosuppression are on lifelong antibiotics, anti-fungals and anti-virals.
 

LAX54

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I've been doing that for decades.
And who are these people who use a dish cloth for a month without changing it?!!
Or at least washing it, but I think you would be surprised at the amount truth be known !
 

kristiang85

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Ah now we see this nonsense...

Hundreds of commuters could die from catching Covid on trains over the next four months, rail safety chiefs have warned the Government.

Rail bosses are now under pressure to ditch a national campaign promoting the safety of train travel that is due to start on Monday.

Modelling prepared by the Rail Safety and Standards Board (RSSB) found that the number of potential deaths from Covid caught on a train over the next four months “ranges from double to triple figures”, attendees from an industry conference call on Thursday have told The Telegraph.

The safety board shares its findings with rail executives and the Department for Transport on a fortnightly basis - but has refused to make the numbers available to the travelling public.

Industry insiders insisted that the analysis, prepared by the safety body that was set up following the Ladbroke Grove crash in 1999 that claimed the lives of 31 people and left 417 injured, over-exaggerated the threat of dying from Covid as a result of travelling by train. The analysis was a severe, downside case, they said.

But the modelling contrasts sharply with academic studies that found little or no evidence of coronavirus on trains and previous public statements by the rail safety body.

The full article is here, though behind a paywall: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/08/14/warning-issued-covid-risk-trains/
 

Nicholas Lewis

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Complete tripe.

I wonder if they dare open it to scrutiny.
What an earth do RSSB know about viruses. This isn't going to help the industry although ive been on plenty of trains that are fullish not commuter crush loaded but passengers seem quite content with conditions. After all plenty of people prepared to coop themselves up in airplane in far tighter conditions.
 
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