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Covid restrictions abroad: updates & observations

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nlogax

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Potential chink of light in today's news. Hopeless Hancock is allegedly not opposed to the idea of letting those who are double vaccinated to travel to amber list countries and not having to quarantine on return.

Again, those countries would have to be fine with letting us in which is outwith our control.
 
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DelayRepay

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Sorry if this has already been posted, but the aviation industry is launching a legal challenge.


Ryanair and the UK’s largest airport group have announced that they have launched a legal challenge calling for transparency in the government’s handling of its contentious “traffic light” travel system.

The move by Europe’s biggest airline and Manchester Airports Group (MAG), which also runs Stansted and East Midlands airports, is backed by several other major UK carriers.

Ryanair and MAG argue that ministers have not been clear about how the government has made its decisions regarding the categorisation of countries as red, amber or green, undermining consumer confidence to book summer holidays.

Court papers are due to be filed on Thursday with both health secretary Matt Hancock and transport secretary Grant Shapps named as defendants.

Like the legal challenges by the hospitality industry, I expect nothing will come of it.
 

Watershed

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Sorry if this has already been posted, but the aviation industry is launching a legal challenge.




Like the legal challenges by the hospitality industry, I expect nothing will come of it.
We need more of these kinds of challenges. Most of them will not get anywhere or achieve anything - judicial review is pretty toothless - but I'd like to hope it puts some kind of pressure on the government. Maybe that's wishful thinking...
 

Bantamzen

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We need more of these kinds of challenges. Most of them will not get anywhere or achieve anything - judicial review is pretty toothless - but I'd like to hope it puts some kind of pressure on the government. Maybe that's wishful thinking...
That's my line of thinking, they may not be successful in the courts but it helps fan the flames under the government's feet. We know they react to image, and the more cases against them the higher the risk they will drop the ball on one case making them look bad (or at least a bit worse still). And as @nlogax has said above, Hancock is already showing signs of twitching.
 

duncanp

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Potential chink of light in today's news. Hopeless Hancock is allegedly not opposed to the idea of letting those who are double vaccinated to travel to amber list countries and not having to quarantine on return.

Again, those countries would have to be fine with letting us in which is outwith our control.

The government is considering letting people who have had two doses of the vaccine return from amber list countries without having to quarantine.

This would mean that they are effectively on the green list for those who are fully vaccinated.


Return of holidays abroad for people who are fully vaccinated​

Double-jabbed tourists could be allowed to travel to amber list countries without quarantining under new government plans

Summer holidays abroad will be opened up for vaccinated Britons under plans being considered by the Government, The Telegraph understands.

Officials are drawing up proposals that could allow people who have had both Covid jabs to avoid having to quarantine on their return from amber list countries, although they will still have to be tested.

The change would effectively turn amber countries green for the vaccinated, opening up the possibility of quarantine-free travel to most major holiday destinations in Europe and the US.

The proposals to ease the restrictions for vaccinated people are said to be at an early stage. Matt Hancock, the Health Secretary, who has fought for tough border restrictions, is said to be "open" to the change.

"They haven't definitely got there yet, but that's the direction of travel," a senior source told The Telegraph.

Officials are still working on whether any new regime would be limited to returning Britons or apply to all arrivals, what exemptions there could be for those who could not be vaccinated, and whether children under 18 should be exempted given that they will not have been jabbed by July 19.

"It is still at an early stage and it is not clear whether it will be worked out in time for the end of the month. There is an awful lot to do. The devil is in the detail," said a source.

A government spokesman said: "Recognising the strong strategic rationale and success of the vaccine programme, we have commenced work to consider the role of vaccinations in shaping a different set of health and testing measures for inbound travel."

Changes to the current travel regime have been urged by Tory MPs and travel chiefs who fear the UK could lose out to Europe economically as it lifts restrictions for vaccinated travellers. On Wednesday, the EU added the US and Hong Kong, key trading partners, to its "white list" for jabbed visitors to avoid tests or quarantine.

Henry Smith, the Tory chairman of the all-party Future of Aviation group, said Britain would be an "outlier" if it did not adopt the same approach to vaccinated travellers as most other countries.

At least 33 countries, including Germany, France, Spain and Greece, exempt vaccinated passengers from quarantine.

"If we don't do it, we will be at a significant disadvantage to our international competitors. Public health paranoia will have trumped common sense if we don't go down that route," Mr Smith said.

Under the traffic light system, there are just 11 countries on the UK's green list – of which Iceland, Gibraltar and Israel are the only viable holiday destinations.

Anyone travelling to them is exempt from quarantine but has to have a pre-departure test followed by a PCR test on return to the UK to enable health officials to detect any variants.

As well as 10 days of quarantine, any traveller returning from an amber country currently has to have a pre-departure test, then PCR tests on days two and eight of self-isolation, with the option of a test to release on day five.
 

DelayRepay

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The government is considering letting people who have had two doses of the vaccine return from amber list countries without having to quarantine.

This would mean that they are effectively on the green list for those who are fully vaccinated.


It makes sense not to force vaccinated people to quarantine, but it is incredibly unfair on the under 25s who will not get their second vaccine until later in the year and will, therefore, not be able to take advantage of this change in order to have a summer holiday.
 

johncrossley

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The government is considering letting people who have had two doses of the vaccine return from amber list countries without having to quarantine.

This would mean that they are effectively on the green list for those who are fully vaccinated.


But will we still need to pay for tests? Maybe it says in the text but the Telegraph is normally paywalled and in any case I don't give money to newspapers by clicking to their websites. (I realise forum rules require links to be provided).
 

Bantamzen

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It makes sense not to force vaccinated people to quarantine, but it is incredibly unfair on the under 25s who will not get their second vaccine until later in the year and will, therefore, not be able to take advantage of this change in order to have a summer holiday.
I must admit, I feel somewhat uncomfortable having a tiered system like this. Its not fair as you say, and so the government should be going balls out to get everyone offered both dose ASAP, even if this means diverting resources from T&T to achieve it.
 

londonteacher

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It makes sense not to force vaccinated people to quarantine, but it is incredibly unfair on the under 25s who will not get their second vaccine until later in the year and will, therefore, not be able to take advantage of this change in order to have a summer holiday.
I agree that it would be unfair. But people were told not to book international holidays. Plus, you still can go to an amber country but quarantine on return (which most people don't do).

My holiday for example is to the US. I most likely won't be able to go as the flights are not operating currently and we are not allowed into the US. I also receive my second vaccination the day before I am meant to travel. It will be a shame as I have been trying since last summer to see my family!
 

island

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Sorry if this has already been posted, but the aviation industry is launching a legal challenge.




Like the legal challenges by the hospitality industry, I expect nothing will come of it.
Agreed. At most there’ll be a “declaration that the government acted illegally”.
 

Cdd89

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It makes sense not to force vaccinated people to quarantine, but it is incredibly unfair on the under 25s who will not get their second vaccine until later in the year and will, therefore, not be able to take advantage of this change in order to have a summer holiday.
I think a reasonable compromise would be to make the tests (including TTR) free of charge for those under the eligibility age as of 12 weeks ago.
 

brad465

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So our travel industry has come out in fury at how Germany is allowing holidaymakers to the med far more easily than we are:


The bosses of Jet2, Easyjet and Manchester Airport have criticised the government for not putting the Balearic Islands, including Majorca, on the green travel list.
The boss of Jet2 said he was "bewildered" over why they couldn't fly to those destinations.
While UK travel is limited, Germans are flocking to popular holiday spots.
The government said it would continue to explore how to open international travel safely.
Currently very few countries are on the government's green list, which means they are approved for leisure travel, requiring less testing and no quarantine on return.
"When you take the UK government's own criteria for deciding where holidaymakers can travel to, and apply it to the Balearics, we are left bewildered as to why we cannot fly there," said Jet2 and Jet2 Holidays' chief executive Steve Heapy.

Charlie Cornish, chief executive of Manchester Airport Group (MAG) said EU countries were taking a more positive approach to resuming international travel.
"Hundreds of thousands of people from places like Germany are travelling freely and safely to low-risk holiday destinations," he said.
MAG has joined with low cost airline Ryanair to launch a legal action against the government over its traffic light system, particularly focusing on the lack of transparency over how countries are classified.
The Spanish island of Majorca, a favourite of British tourists for decades, is currently on the amber list; travel there is not advised and quarantine is required on return to the UK.
But rates of the virus are lower there than in the UK and in recent weeks, German tourists have started arriving in Majorca in large numbers. German travellers need just a digital pre-registration and either an antigen test or proof of vaccination.
Dutch and Belgian tourists are also flying to the Balearics but in fewer numbers than those travelling from Germany.
Palma de Majorca Airport confirmed to the BBC that during May, 397,931 tourists arrived from Germany on 3,363 flights. In contrast 5,813 UK tourists arrived on 333 flights from UK airports.
Local businesses in the Balearics that usually rely on British tourists and their holiday spending, are feeling their absence for a second summer.
 

Butts

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Another door closes for most UK Travellers - right on our doorstep.

Jersey has moved England (from 29th June) joining Scotland to Red Status effectively killing off Holidays there. However Wales and Northern Ireland remain Green and good to go at the moment.

Thank God I switched my trip in a couple of weeks time from Jersey to Belfast on my "points accumulator" quest with BA.

Further good news BHD Lounge has reopened under the guise of Aspire for BA Passengers - can my liver take it :E
 
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TravelDream

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Another door closes for most UK Travellers - right on our doorstep.

Jersey has moved England (from 29th June) joining Scotland to Red Status effectively killing off Holidays there. However Wales and Northern Ireland remain Green and good to go at the moment.

Travellers from England and Scotland can still enter Jersey if they have proof they've received both vaccine doses.

They still have to have a negative PCR test on arrival and on day 8, but they are free of charge.

 

Butts

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Travellers from England and Scotland can still enter Jersey if they have proof they've received both vaccine doses.

They still have to have a negative PCR test on arrival and on day 8, but they are free of charge.


Yes, but if you are coming from a Red Zone without being vaccinated it is a lot more restrictive .

Interesting the tests are free !!
 

route101

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Out of interest, anyone going abroad this summer or been away recently? Was it a holiday or different reason?
 

Butts

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Out of interest, anyone going abroad this summer or been away recently? Was it a holiday or different reason?

I've been to Belfast earlier this month going again in a couple of weeks time by Air.

Also due to be going to Dublin in July, Germany and Czech Republic in August, Bucharest in September, Bulgaria and Turkey in October,, Greece in November and Albania in December.

Have had to cancel trips to Florida ,Jersey and Dublin already this year due to covid.

Luckily all bookings with BA Holidays so pretty flexible.
 

LAX54

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But will we still need to pay for tests? Maybe it says in the text but the Telegraph is normally paywalled and in any case I don't give money to newspapers by clicking to their websites. (I realise forum rules require links to be provided).
Think it also said tests everyday, so I assume they are the free ones ?

Then you see the thousands of footy supporters in the streets, barely 2 inches apart never mind 6 feet, and of course no masks in sight, and you wonder why we are bothering at all ! (not just us the whole world !)
 

Nicholas Lewis

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In the DT tonight behind a paywall

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politic...-back-end-july-new-double-vaccination-travel/

Family holidays to Europe will be back on from the end of July under plans to be considered by ministers as early as this week.

It comes as official data revealed government scientists found no evidence of Covid variants in more than 23,000 people tested after arriving from amber list countries including Europe.

Fully vaccinated adults will be allowed to travel to amber countries with their children without having to quarantine under the plans being drawn up by Department for Transport (DfT) officials.

An update to the traffic light list is due by 28th June and at a case level where now the outliers in Europe/US although the JBC will no doubt advise Shapps differently

1624225751863.png
 

TravelDream

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In some ways good news. About 60% of adults are now fully vaccinated and obviously this plan would include 100% of under 18s.

We need to get the travel and tourism system moving again or we will see hefty job loses in this area with big businesses going under. I know some people like the idea of Britain alone, but people have the right to go abroad and not be imprisoned here.

The bad news is this punishes younger people who haven't yet received their first dose never mind second. I wonder if it would pass muster with equality legislation?

The other bad news is that people would still have to take £100+ worth of testing per person with a test before departing back to the UK and two PCR tests on days 2 and 8 when returning to the UK. £500+ extra and a lot of inconvenience for a family of four won't exactly encourage tourism.
 

Freightmaster

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The other bad news is that people would still have to take £100+ worth of testing per person with a test before departing back to the UK and two PCR tests on days 2 and 8 when returning to the UK. £500+ extra and a lot of inconvenience for a family of four won't exactly encourage tourism.

I find it really depressing that after 560 odd posts, the answer to the question posed in the title of this thread
is still a resounding "nowhere" with seemingly no prospect whatsoever of any change for the foreseeable future. :(

My personal feeling is that it will be impossible to travel abroad, vaccinated or otherwise, without mandatory testing
at some point in the journey (or after returning home) for at least another eight months (i.e. until Easter 2022),
but please let me know if I am being unduly pessimistic!!




MARK
 

Cdd89

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I’m optimistic that the post-return testing will be the next thing to disappear — after all, most other countries don’t require it.

That would leave a pre departure rapid test, which I actually think (through gritted teeth) is actually probably proportionate where the origin has high rates. Though this isn’t being applied logically, if it were then it would be a requirement on domestic flights departing from Manchester.
 

TravelDream

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My personal feeling is that it will be impossible to travel abroad, vaccinated or otherwise, without mandatory testing
at some point in the journey (or after returning home) for at least another eight months (i.e. until Easter 2022),
but please let me know if I am being unduly pessimistic!!

Sadly, I think that is potentially optimistic!

The government/ some experts are already making noises about more restrictions this winter to 'protect the NHS'. I put that in quotations marks not because I don't support the NHS, but because the government seems to always use that as their excuse when implementing restrictions. The government also seems terrified of new variants - the problem with that is viruses mutate at an incredibly fast rate and there will 100% be new variants in the future which cause concern. If their view is we need to stop them, then we need to lockdown forever.

I can see the traffic light system staying for at least another 12 months. The problem with it is always what comes next. We can't open up at Easter as lots of people travel over the summer. We can't open up at the end of summer as cases increase during the winter and we need to 'protect the NHS'. Then repeat....
Another real question is what happens with the red list. The Indian variant already makes up 90%+ of cases in the UK so what's the point of keeping India on the red list?
The answer is the government has no exit strategy whatsoever.

I think testing will be around for some time too. Hopefully they will move to lateral flow tests which are far cheaper than the PCR tests used currently. It could still be done securely for e.g. by taking to test on a video camera and then photographing the results or something.

Maybe I am the pessimist though.
 

johncrossley

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The other bad news is that people would still have to take £100+ worth of testing per person with a test before departing back to the UK and two PCR tests on days 2 and 8 when returning to the UK. £500+ extra and a lot of inconvenience for a family of four won't exactly encourage tourism.

Is that what the DT article says? It isn't mentioned in the quote.

If Ireland don't require testing at that point a loophole would be to fly to Ireland first.
 

Yew

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I’m optimistic that the post-return testing will be the next thing to disappear — after all, most other countries don’t require it.
You underestimate the tabloids and their history of using petty Nationalism to get people to support things that aren't in their best interests.
 

TravelDream

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Is that what the DT article says? It isn't mentioned in the quote.

If Ireland don't require testing at that point a loophole would be to fly to Ireland first.

It doesn't, but you can infer that from them only saying the government might end quarantining from amber list countries. Don't forget even green list countries require a test before departure and on day 2.

On the second point, technically/ legally, you'd need to still follow the rules and quarantine and test it if you went via Ireland unless you stayed there for 10 days. I don't think the government can check though.
 

kristiang85

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There seem to be strong rumours that Johnson will exempt 2,500 UEFA officials and VIPs from quarantining to keep the Euro finals in Wembley.

Now, surely even this government knows that this will go down like a lead balloon with citizens, so hopefully he will try to avoid a backlash by opening up much of Europe to the green list, especially given most countries have rates lower than ours now.
 
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