Covid restrictions abroad: updates & observations

[westv]

None, but Norway is part of the Schengen. We aren't.

only membership of the EU has been mentioned.

 

[kristiang85]

only membership of the EU has been mentioned.

It's like passport control - if you're EU or Schengen, you get let through the 'fast' lane.

If you are neither, you don't.

That's how its always worked. Since Brexit, we are now on the wrong side of that for both passport control and the virus protocols, rightly or wrongly, and its up to countries to decide if they want to grant us an exception or not. Some do, but otherwise they are within their right to say no, as we are a 'third country', and it might open the floodgates for other countries to want preferential treatment. So I understand it, even if I think it is annoying.

In terms of 'stopping the spread of COVID', it is a pointless measure though, given the varying rates in countries they do let in without the checks.

 

[joebassman]

Isn't it a rule for all third countries? Whilst there may be some motivation in not making our lives easier due to Brexit, what makes us different from other countries outside the EU?

It's annoying indeed, and scientifically is a stupid rule, but I can see politically why it's in place.

Yes and it demonstrates how the rules are politically motivated rather than being about containing the virus.

What does a virus care about whether we are in the EU club or not?

But oh well I guess the rules are the rules. One can either take a stand and not go or suck it up and enjoy their holiday.

Is it only EU countries who are stipulating that the vax has to have been within 270 days?

It doesn't appear to stipulate for entry into the US or Canada.

 

[greyman42]

People who are immune-suppressed or have a pre-existing lung condition and are trying to avoid exposure can choose not to go to a crowded bar, but many people have no effective alternative to public transport in order to access their workplace/college etc.

That being the case, they can wear FFP3 masks on public transport but why should the rest of us?

 

[kristiang85]

Yes and it demonstrates how the rules are politically motivated rather than being about containing the virus.

What does a virus care about whether we are in the EU club or not?

Totally agree. It's stupid.

But oh well I guess the rules are the rules. One can either take a stand and not go or suck it up and enjoy their holiday.

Whilst I don't make new plans to go to places with these rules, if I have long standing plans I won't cancel them - I'm not that bloody minded. I'm in Spain next week for a couple of days, but that was booked 10 months ago when I thought they would have been rid of this rubbish.

Is it only EU countries who are stipulating that the vax has to have been within 270 days?

It doesn't appear to stipulate for entry into the US or Canada.

I'm not sure; but certainly in my most recent experience, it is only the EU that are this particular about it. Sherpa is a good resource, but I haven't looked through each country to see what their rules are beyond the ones I travel to.

 

[nw1]

Isn't it a rule for all third countries? Whilst there may be some motivation in not making our lives easier due to Brexit, what makes us different from other countries outside the EU?

It's annoying indeed, and scientifically is a stupid rule, but I can see politically why it's in place.

Except such a rule is discriminatory. While I don't believe in this case that the UK should have special treatment, I also believe that no non-EU country should be subject to this blatant discrimination.

The only valid discrimination (and given Omicron is everywhere, this no longer really applies) would be to require more checks from countries with much higher infection rates than anywhere else.

 

[Bikeman78]

That being the case, they can wear FFP3 masks on public transport but why should the rest of us?

If one in 15 people have Covid then only five people on a well filled rail carriage will have it. Thus for the other 70 people, wearing a mask will achieve literally nothing. Also some people will feel very unwell and thus be at home recovering so the number of infected people out and about will be lower than 1 in 15.

Anyway, if I were really concerned about Covid, by now I would have moved house, found another job or found a different way to get between the two. If Germany still thinks masks are essential now, then I guess they will keep them forever? It's not as if Covid is going anywhere.

 

[Scotrail12]

I was quite disappointed with Spain's attitude to masks. Insisting we wore them on the Hop On Hop Off bus in Barcelona even on the top deck. And they weren't for free, we had to pay for them. Also got told off for not wearing a mask on an SNCF train whilst between Barcelona & France, even though we crossed the Catalonia-France border like 20 minutes later.

France much better with them thankfully. In Rome soon, what's Italy like?

 

[D6130]

In Rome soon, what's Italy like?

Still fully compulsory to wear FFFP-2/3 masks on all public transport....in theory at least.

 

[kristiang85]

Still fully compulsory to wear FFFP-2/3 masks on all public transport....in theory at least.

Eugh... They aren't getting rid of this for September, are they? I've got through the whole pandemic without wearing one of those ones.

Its weird how the people of Italy and Spain are very, shall we say, laisse faire about many rules in society, yet as far as I can tell they have just meekly accepted these ridiculous prolonged mask mandates which are the most pointless of all the laws they've probably encountered.

 

[AlterEgo]

Still fully compulsory to wear FFFP-2/3 masks on all public transport....in theory at least.

I was in Rome a few months ago and there was about 50% compliance with this.

 

[D6130]

Eugh... They aren't getting rid of this for September, are they? I've got through the whole pandemic without wearing one of those ones.

The current regulations run until 30th September....after which they will be reviewed by the Italian government - which has just fallen - so don't expect much to happen before the Autumn general election.

 

[kristiang85]

The current regulations run until 30th September....after which they will be reviewed by the Italian government - which has just fallen - so don't expect much to happen before the Autumn general election.

Damn. How utterly miserable.

Is it just public transport you have to wear them, and not events?

 

[Ian Cunningham]

Damn. How utterly miserable.

Is it just public transport you have to wear them, and not events?

Just public transport (not incoming airlines though) and healthcare/care homes etc - events and venues kept their mask mandate later but that was removed on 01/06/22.
In Turin in May compliance was high especially on trains and metro, Rome in June - compliance still high on the Metro but less on buses unless they were busy

 

[greyman42]

I'm surprised anyone from the UK is still visiting countries such as Spain and Italy.

 

[duncanp]

Oh dear, the chickens from Saint Jacinda's "zero COVID" policy are coming home to roost.

Can't help feeling a little bit of schadenfreude though.

New Zealand Covid deaths soar to RECORD high as Omicron wreaks havoc

Weekly Covid deaths in New Zealand soared to 151 in the seven days to July 16, compared with 115 in the worst week of the previous wave in March, according to Health Ministry data.

www.dailymail.co.uk

New Zealand Covid deaths soar to RECORD high as Omicron wreaks havoc: Scientists claim nation is vulnerable because it spent too long under 'hermit' China-style eradication strategy​

• New Zealand's weekly Covid deaths soared to 151 in the week to July 16, compared to previous high of 115
• In the latest day, all 26 people who died from Covid aged over 60 — known to be most vulnerable to the virus
• Omicron sub-variant BA.5 is driving the current wave and caused 64,780 confirmed infections last week

Covid death rates have reached pandemic highs in New Zealand as the country battles another havoc-inducing Omicron wave.

Weekly virus fatalities hit 151 in the seven days ending July 16, compared to 115 in the worst week of the previous flare-up in March, according to Health Ministry data. It means the country's current mortality rate is twice as high as the UK's and four times higher than the US.

In the latest 24 hours, all 26 Covid deaths occurred among over-60s — the group known to be most vulnerable to the virus.

Omicron sub-variant BA.5 is driving the current wave. Another 64,780 cases were confirmed last week, although authorities say the true figure will be much higher.

Once held up as evidence that it is possible to suppress the virus, New Zealand's swift response to the pandemic and its geographic isolation allowed it to escape the wrath of the pandemic.

Jacinda Ardern's Government dropped its zero-Covid policy, which saw the nation nicknamed a 'hermit kingdom', last year once the population was largely vaccinated, with eight in 10 people now double-jabbed. Since then, the virus has spread.

Experts told MailOnline that previously low levels of infection in New Zealand due to strict Covid curbs is behind the high fatality rate now because the economically-crippling measures only delayed 'inevitable' infections that could have built-up immunity.

Data from Oxford University-backed research platform Our World in Data shows five people per million in New Zealand were dying with Covid every day in the week to July 21 — up by a third from the previous high of 3.68 in March.

For comparison, in the darkest days of the pandemic, similar rates in the UK and US sat closer to 19 and 10, respectively.

However, both countries are now logging much lower death counts.

The UK is recording two deaths per million people each day, despite up to one in 15 people being infected.

Meanwhile, the US is suffering just one Covid fatality for every million people, a quarter of the scale seen in New Zealand.

Until last year, New Zealand had been following a zero-Covid policy — with the population largely remaining virus free due to harsh lockdown measures, aggressive contact tracing and border controls that trapped some of its own citizens outside of the country.

Despite fierce criticism from some in the country over the restrictions, Ms Ardern, the nation's prime minister, has repeatedly defended the rules, saying they saved lives.

But the Government finally acknowledged last October that it could no longer remain Covid-free.

At the time, the country of 5million had logged fewer than 30 deaths.

Most of the final virus-controlling restrictions, including limits on gatherings and vaccine mandates, were lifted at the start of the year. International travel rules were only eased at the start of May.

But health authorities last week brought back free face masks and Covid tests in a bid to control the latest surge which has piled pressure on hospitals.

Covid Response Minister Dr Ayesha Verrall said there had been a 'significant' increase in cases since the start of the month weeks, with the biggest uptick among the vulnerable over-65s, causing a jump in hospitalisations.

More people are being offered antiviral medicine to reduce their risk of becoming severely unwell and another booster campaign is being stepped up.

It comes during New Zealand's winter, as the country experiences 'the worst flu season in recent memory' and health staff absences are on the rise, she said.

Dr Verrall added: 'The tried and tested measures: wearing a high quality mask, strong vaccine and booster uptake, antivirals and testing are highly effective and will put us in the best position to get through what is one of the toughest winters we've faced.'

Professor Paul Hunter, an infectious disease expert based at the University of East Anglia, told MailOnline that New Zealand has 'done better than most countries that initially followed zero-Covid strategies' because this approach meant many people had good protection against severe illness and death when restrictions were lifted.

But he noted that hybrid immunity — being both vaccinated and having a previous infection — seems to provide the best protection against severe disease and death.

Until this month a rather larger proportion of people in New Zealand had had just two shots and no prior infection, compared to the UK where the vast majority are thought to have had Covid, Professor Hunter said.

He added: 'I suspect that is contributing to the current death rate in New Zealand as being over twice that of the UK.

'In the first New Zealand wave, vaccine protection was still good but has now waned enough to increase fatality rates in the absence of the great majority of people having already recovered from Covid.

'It is possible also that BA.5 is more lethal than BA.1 and BA.2 but I don't think the evidence is definitive one way or the other on this.'

Professor Robert Dingwall, a sociologist at Nottingham Trent University and former Government adviser, told MailOnline that experts have long said that it would be fairer to judge countries' responses two years on from the original outbreak.

He said: 'New Zealand was able to prevent early waves of infection by rigid border controls while other countries developed and tested vaccines.

'However, in the end, the country has been unable to escape the fundamentals of Covid — that the risk of death is strongly related to age, that vaccination mitigates but does not prevent infection, and that the way out of the pandemic lies through population immunity acquired by both vaccination and infection.

'New Zealand's policies may have displaced some deaths into other countries that developed vaccines but were really only delaying the inevitable deaths among their own population at a considerable cost to the economy.'

But Dr Simon Clarke, an infectious disease expert based at the University of Reading, told MailOnline that New Zealand has high levels of protection against Covid. Some 80 per cent of people are double-jabbed, compared to 75 per cent in the UK and 67 per cent in the US.

He said: 'Any population-wide immunity which could have been gained at the start of the pandemic, at the cost of a lot of deaths, would have dwindled away by now. We need a better understanding of the behaviour of the virus before we can reach conclusions.'

A variant circulating in New Zealand may be less sensitive to vaccine immunity or the older population there may be in need of a booster, Dr Clarke added.

New Zealand's Health Ministry data shows emergency departments, general practices and medical centres are under pressure. However, hospitalisation levels remain below those seen during the March peak.

The Government is resisting pressure from some doctors to reinstate curbs on public gatherings or mandate the wearing of masks at schools.

However, Education Ministry chief Iona Holsted said on Thursday the ministry had advised schools to enforce the wearing of masks as much as practicable when children returned from holidays next week.

'We understand that implementing mask policies can be a challenge but ask that you take action to strengthen your mask wearing policy as soon as possible,' she said.

 

[alm37]

I'm surprised anyone from the UK is still visiting countries such as Spain and Italy.

Food, wine, culture, scenery, weather. A quality of life rapidly disappearing from our insular, deluded society.

 

[Scotrail12]

Food, wine, culture, scenery, weather. A quality of life rapidly disappearing from our insular, deluded society.

France has all of that and isn't forcing people to wear masks.

I don't know about the quality of life part though, I could never live in any of those countries. Good to travel but there was nothing nicer than seeing Dover on the Eurostar after two weeks of France, Spain & Italy.

 

[Bantamzen]

Oh dear, the chickens from Saint Jacinda's "zero COVID" policy are coming home to roost.

Can't help feeling a little bit of schadenfreude though.

New Zealand Covid deaths soar to RECORD high as Omicron wreaks havoc

Weekly Covid deaths in New Zealand soared to 151 in the seven days to July 16, compared with 115 in the worst week of the previous wave in March, according to Health Ministry data.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Quite honestly this should be a wake-up call to anyone who still believes we can hide away from the virus through closed borders & silly cloth masks. The only way to guarantee never coming into contact with the virus is to seal yourself into a room, and never have any interactions with any other humans for the remainder of your lives.

 

[greyman42]

Food, wine, culture, scenery, weather. A quality of life rapidly disappearing from our insular, deluded society.

They also have rubbish economies and high unemployment rates compared to the UK as well as stupid rules regarding Covid.

 

[Freightmaster]

Food, wine, culture, scenery, weather. A quality of life rapidly disappearing from our insular, deluded society.

Out of curiosity, what are people "deluded" about in this country??






MARK

 

[alm37]

Out of curiosity, what are people "deluded" about in this country??






MARK

An almost endless list now, peddled by mendacious politicians to an electorate apparently willing to believe in the delusions.

 

[Razorblades]

An almost endless list now, peddled by mendacious politicians to an electorate apparently willing to believe in the delusions.

...that Britain was 'ablaze' during two days of, at best, decent weather last week. That BS was courtesy of The Guardian, all in support of the latest terror.

 

[Freightmaster]

An almost endless list now, peddled by mendacious politicians to an electorate apparently willing to believe in the delusions.

Such as?



MARK

 

[Citybreak1]

When might France ditch the test? I heard it could last until atleast March 2023? I would like to visit Lille from London but don’t fancy a test.

 

[VauxhallandI]

When might France ditch the test? I heard it could last until atleast March 2023? I would like to visit Lille from London but don’t fancy a test.

Didn’t France do that a long time ago? I went in April and there was no test

 

[Citybreak1]

Didn’t France do that a long time ago? I went in April and there was no test

With Eurostar it’s a test still if your unvaccinated or only had one vaccine or two. Holland still won’t let anybody in unvaccinated

 

[VauxhallandI]

With Eurostar it’s a test still if your unvaccinated or only had one vaccine or two. Holland still won’t let anybody in unvaccinated

I went in the same whole in the ground but in my car and there were no jabs necessary

So it would seem France don’t need it but a TOC does, what is it with these TOCs

 

[Watershed]

Didn’t France do that a long time ago? I went in April and there was no test

I think @Citybreak1 is referring to the testing requirement for unvaccinated arrivals.

 

[nw1]

They also have rubbish economies and high unemployment rates compared to the UK as well as stupid rules regarding Covid.

The post related to people visiting them for holiday, not to live, so the economy/unemployment issue is somewhat irrelevant, other than in a different way: by visiting said countries, you are helping out their economies.

I do agree they need to loosen up on their Covid rules though, and certainly (in the case of Spain) need to stop discrimination based on country of origin.