• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Covid restrictions extended to 19/7/2021. Your views on how this will pan out.

Status
Not open for further replies.

Cowley

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
15 Apr 2016
Messages
15,766
Location
Devon
As it says in the title really. This is a slightly overdue replacement for this thread:
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

johnnychips

Established Member
Joined
19 Nov 2011
Messages
3,675
Location
Sheffield
How will it pan out? I will wake up tomorrow and think ‘gosh that was a nightmare and a half’, pinch myself to make sure I am awake, think ‘ooh, can’t wait to go to footie and a club after’ then I will look on my bedside chest of drawers, see my Covid testing kit and go ‘aargh!’ :D
 

brad465

Established Member
Joined
11 Aug 2010
Messages
7,024
Location
Taunton or Kent
I think the ongoing Euros tournament will enable a fair level of disobedience of restrictions, and/or a large amount of resentment against anything football fans like doing but can't (football fans of course are much less tolerant of restrictive behaviour than the average person might be). Two of the front pages today/tomorrow report stories that can create resentment, the first being the Metro suggesting pub landlords could be fined if fans chant or boo in their venues (I mean really?!?):

1623972264380.png
The second, by the Times, suggests something that has backed the Government into a corner over its perception of restrictions with the whole population: they believe that UEFA are demanding 2,500 officials arrive at the Wembley final without quarantine, or the final gets moved to Budapest. They also believe Johnson might allow them in on the grounds it could help with a joint World Cup 2030 bid. If this happens, there'll be huge resentment in the wider population for the sake of the "one rule for them..." argument:

1623972440356.png
 

HSTEd

Veteran Member
Joined
14 Jul 2011
Messages
16,706
"Alas it is necessary to extend further"

Although I hope it won't be, I expect it will be.

There will be plenty of excuses to use, like the pending collapse in vaccination output.
 

bramling

Veteran Member
Joined
5 Mar 2012
Messages
17,754
Location
Hertfordshire / Teesdale
As it says in the title really. This is a slightly overdue replacement for this thread:

There’s been so many twists and turns in this story who knows what’s going to happen. However one thing I think is likely is there’s going to be some element of linkage to winter, in terms of some people calling for measures to “get the NHS through winter”.
 

Pete_uk

Established Member
Joined
28 Jan 2017
Messages
1,252
Location
Stroud, Glos
Once the new date come along there will be some loosening of restrictions but I REALLY doubt they will go completely.

Then, once September rolls on and the normal back to school/college/uni cycle starts again along with the normal seasonal uptick in viruses we will no doubt be hearing a lot of doom and gloom from the usual groups.
 

island

Veteran Member
Joined
30 Dec 2010
Messages
16,106
Location
0036
Unless 19 July goes ahead with the removal of all outstanding domestic* restrictions, I’m fearful that we will be stuck with this nonsense into 2022.
  • 16 August: “just another final push to get second doses into more arms”
  • 13 September: “just another short delay as return to school might cause a spike”
  • 11 October: “we’re headed into the worst season for respiratory conditions, best we hold on a bit longer”
…and so on.

I am hugely frustrated at the fact the light at the end of the tunnel is no nearer.

*I think travel related restrictions such as self-isolation and testing we will be stuck with for a while, at least until other countries have caught up on vaccinations.
 

duncanp

Established Member
Joined
16 Aug 2012
Messages
4,856
Unless 19 July goes ahead with the removal of all outstanding domestic* restrictions, I’m fearful that we will be stuck with this nonsense into 2022.
  • 16 August: “just another final push to get second doses into more arms”
  • 13 September: “just another short delay as return to school might cause a spike”
  • 11 October: “we’re headed into the worst season for respiratory conditions, best we hold on a bit longer”
…and so on.

I am hugely frustrated at the fact the light at the end of the tunnel is no nearer.

*I think travel related restrictions such as self-isolation and testing we will be stuck with for a while, at least until other countries have caught up on vaccinations.

The Daily Mail is a bit more optimistic this morning, saying that restrictions could be lifted from July 5th if the figures continue to go the right way.

There is a growing realisation that the dodgy SAGE modelling that predicted so many deaths if we opened up on June 21st used out of date data on the effectiveness of the vaccines against the Indian variant. When you put in the real figures regarding vaccine efficacy, deaths are much lower, at a more manageable level.

But I do agree that if we don't open up fully by July 19th, there will be a greater risk of restrictions dragging on through the autumn and winter.

On the other hand, if restrictions are lifted on or before July 19th, no doubt the locktivists and Fake SAGE will hold a summer camp somewhere so that they can plot how to scare the government into reintroducing restrictions around October or November.

Perhaps the result in the Chesham & Amersham by-election will be a kick up the backside to Boris Johnson, showing that people are fed up with restrictions, and will make their voices heard at the ballot box when given an opportunity.


Lockdown could end two weeks early if Covid data continues to improve, the Mail has been told.

Downing Street has opened the door to ending restrictions on July 5, amid growing evidence that assumptions used by government scientists to justify delaying Freedom Day were too pessimistic.

Real-world data on the effectiveness of the vaccines has proved to be far better than the assumptions used by scientists who drew up alarming models predicting tens of thousands of extra deaths.

And although cases of the Indian variant are still rising, the rate of growth has fallen dramatically in recent days as surge testing and vaccinations are stepped up in hotspot areas.

While ministers believe a July 19 reopening remains the most likely option, a government source said a two-week 'review point' demanded by Boris Johnson will now be a 'genuine review of the data', which could lead to Freedom Day being brought forward to July 5.

The source told the Mail: 'The decision to delay reopening was so finely balanced – probably the most difficult decision of the whole pandemic – that the PM wanted a review point built in so that if things did change we could move sooner.

No-one wants these restrictions in place for a day longer than necessary.'

However while the week-long trend had shown a slowing rate of case growth, yesterday's daily case data showed Britain breached 11,000 coronavirus cases for the first time since February as the Indian variant continues to spread across the country.

Department of Health bosses posted 11,007 positive tests, up 48.9 per cent on last Thursday's figure of 7,393 and the highest daily total since February 19 (12,027).

Coronavirus hospitalisations also spiked by 45 per cent in the space of the week, with the outbreak now starting to put pressure back on some parts of the NHS where the mutant strain is spreading quickest. There were 222 Covid admissions on Sunday — the latest day data is available for — up from 153 the previous week.

Tory MPs said it was vital Mr Johnson moved to unlock society and the economy at the earliest opportunity if the data improved. Sir Robert Syms said: 'We need to get people's freedoms back.

'We cannot save everybody, but what we have done is save thousands and thousands of lives. Now we need to safeguard employment, safeguard businesses and safeguard people's personal relationships.'

The Government's roadmap originally planned to move to step four on June 21, which was dubbed Freedom Day. Businesses in sectors such as hospitality and the arts invested millions in the hope that crippling restrictions such as the one-metre rule would finally be lifted.

But the PM was persuaded to reluctantly 'pause' the reopening after being presented with models suggesting a four-week delay could save thousands of lives. But after days of improving data, Mr Johnson's official spokesman yesterday appeared to open the door to the possibility of bringing forward step four.

'We continue to assess the latest available data,' the spokesman said.

'The PM made clear we will monitor the position every single day. We have got a two-week review point which would allow us potentially to move to step four'. Under the most pessimistic scenario presented to ministers, Imperial College London warned Britain could experience 203,824 more deaths by June next year.

But MPs were told this week that the model was based on the assumption that the AstraZeneca jab would reduce hospitalisations by between 77 and 87 per cent after two doses. But Public Health England data released on Monday shows the vaccine is 92 per cent effective.

Last week, Covid cases were increasing at a rate of more than 60 per cent a week. But in recent days, data suggests the rate has dropped to half that.

A Cabinet source said: 'We were told that cases were going to continue to rise exponentially and it already looks as though that assumption is questionable.

'If we get to the end of next week and the data is moving decisively in the right direction, no-one is going to criticise us for changing our minds and opening up a bit early.'
 

YorkshireBear

Established Member
Joined
23 Jul 2010
Messages
8,686
While I'm generally in the camp of, if we can't start back to normal with so many people vaccinated then what's the point, the rise in hospital admissions is a slight concern for me as I didn't think that we would get the same level of percentage increases (+40%) as cases were. I need to go and dig down into the detail a bit more as it is unlikely to be what it seems.

Caveated that I need to dig into data more and that is at first glance. And the numbers are so low that we are in a different ball game, percentage increase in cases has started to reduce too which is good....
 

NorthKent1989

Established Member
Joined
13 May 2017
Messages
1,902
If July 19th doesn’t happen then I’m honestly not sure what could happen, by then there should be no excuses the vulnerable and over 50s would have had their second jab by then, any further restrictions or lockdowns would be completely unnecessary we have to live with Covid whether people like it or not, no mor face masks, no more social distancing, Many states in the US have opened up and they’re doing fine, cases are cases and will always go up or down, no further excuses for lockdown now
 

Bantamzen

Established Member
Joined
4 Dec 2013
Messages
9,724
Location
Baildon, West Yorkshire
If July 19th doesn’t happen then I’m honestly not sure what could happen, by then there should be no excuses the vulnerable and over 50s would have had their second jab by then, any further restrictions or lockdowns would be completely unnecessary we have to live with Covid whether people like it or not, no mor face masks, no more social distancing, Many states in the US have opened up and they’re doing fine, cases are cases and will always go up or down, no further excuses for lockdown now
Putting it simply, if July 19th does not transpire to be the end of restrictions then its really up to the people to decide. Wear masks, or don't. Keep to social number guidelines, or don't. Holiday only in the UK, or don't. You get my drift, the more people that simply stop following restrictive rules (whilst being sensible about things like personal hygiene, staying at home when ill etc) the harder it will become for the government to continue.

This government runs on pure ego & popularity juice, if they perceive that restrictions will make them unpopular with the wider public, they will lose them quicker than you could say "I'm burning my mask today"....
 

nlogax

Established Member
Joined
29 May 2011
Messages
5,369
Location
Mostly Glasgow-ish. Mostly.
If the locktivists have it their way; full lockdown by September when schools and Universities open. Some people don’t want us to return to normal.
Beyond a handful of odd folk on Twitter and a retired scientist who embarrassed himself on talk radio talking to JHB, who is actually asking for that?

I just don't see it.
 

kristiang85

Established Member
Joined
23 Jan 2018
Messages
2,655
I can see Boris dropping restrictions on July 5th, as a popularity measure, but also keeping some measures in place, hoping that the earlier date means people won't dwell on it.
 

DustyBin

Established Member
Joined
20 Sep 2020
Messages
3,623
Location
First Class
Nothing would surprise me anymore to be honest! Hopefully the government realise that this is as good as it gets in terms of infections, hospitalisations and deaths when it comes to an endemic virus, the latter especially when they’re recorded in the way they are (i.e. for any reason within 28 days of a positive test). I’m not holding my breath though.

There will without doubt be fear mongering over new a “scariant” between now and July 19th, there are around 30 variants in the UK currently so any one of those could be chosen, given a name and used as justification for a further extension. Of course, the Indian variant will have a finite life and will be replaced by something at some point, we shouldn’t be alarmed or surprised when it happens.

There is talk of vaccine shortages so I wouldn’t be surprised if this is cited as a reason not to lift restrictions, or possibly lower than expected take up in younger people (they love a bit of divide and rule after all!).

I noticed that the Pfizer vaccine is now approved for use in 12-15 year olds, will they need to be vaccinated before it’s safe to open up? That would be a classic “moving of goal posts” so again I could see that happening (I’m sure somebody will make at least make the argument).

As I said, I’m hopeful we’re near to the end of this misery but there are still a lot of “cards” available to the lockdown enthusiasts, and this makes me a little uncomfortable. I agree with @Bantamzen that to a large extent our destiny is in our own hands. The government want to be seen to be in control and have often legalised the things people are already doing, so by ignoring restrictions we can send a clear message.
 

Eyersey468

Established Member
Joined
14 Sep 2018
Messages
2,161
Unless 19 July goes ahead with the removal of all outstanding domestic* restrictions, I’m fearful that we will be stuck with this nonsense into 2022.
  • 16 August: “just another final push to get second doses into more arms”
  • 13 September: “just another short delay as return to school might cause a spike”
  • 11 October: “we’re headed into the worst season for respiratory conditions, best we hold on a bit longer”
…and so on.

I am hugely frustrated at the fact the light at the end of the tunnel is no nearer.

*I think travel related restrictions such as self-isolation and testing we will be stuck with for a while, at least until other countries have caught up on vaccinations.
This is my concern too, that they will keep finding excuses to keep delaying
 

quantinghome

Established Member
Joined
1 Jun 2013
Messages
2,264
Beyond a handful of odd folk on Twitter and a retired scientist who embarrassed himself on talk radio talking to JHB, who is actually asking for that?

I just don't see it.
Agreed. No one wants to prolong restrictions more than necessary. The disagreement is about what is necessary.

The arguments for prolonged restrictions beyond July 19th are weak, given vaccination take up should be at herd immunity levels by then. This should minimise the inevitable exit wave, and it's better this happens over the summer.
 

duncanp

Established Member
Joined
16 Aug 2012
Messages
4,856
This should minimise the inevitable exit wave, and it's better this happens over the summer.

I think that this argument may be the one that convinces the government to lift restrictions on July 19th. (or maybe even sooner as reported in some papers today)

There is no ideal time for lifting restrictions, and the data is never going to be perfect.

But it is better that restrictions are lifted over the summer, when schools are closed, people are able to mix outdoors, and respiratory viruses are naturally at a low prevalence.
 

DustyBin

Established Member
Joined
20 Sep 2020
Messages
3,623
Location
First Class
Agreed. No one wants to prolong restrictions more than necessary. The disagreement is about what is necessary.

The arguments for prolonged restrictions beyond July 19th are weak, given vaccination take up should be at herd immunity levels by then. This should minimise the inevitable exit wave, and it's better this happens over the summer.

Will you however be cowed by, for example, fears over a new variant between now and then?
 

Cdd89

Established Member
Joined
8 Jan 2017
Messages
1,453
Even though I don’t agree with the current extension (I would be OK with trading off for more deaths, especially those of the unvaccinated-by-choice), the modelling indicates that a delay now is highly effective.

It also shows that a delay later is less effective as it wouldn’t be displacing school attendance and we would have almost no 40+ individuals with a second dose outstanding.

When the pace of vaccine distribution slows down in a month or so, that is actually an argument against further delays to unlocking. It reduces the per-day value of further delay, and not only that but the people being protected by such delay are those least at risk.

So for the above reasons I’m pretty confident that July will be the end. I also do expect that “zero Covid” advocates will be saying we should use the summer holidays to drive cases down to extremely low levels, but I think they will be ignored.
 

bramling

Veteran Member
Joined
5 Mar 2012
Messages
17,754
Location
Hertfordshire / Teesdale
Agreed. No one wants to prolong restrictions more than necessary. The disagreement is about what is necessary.

The arguments for prolonged restrictions beyond July 19th are weak, given vaccination take up should be at herd immunity levels by then. This should minimise the inevitable exit wave, and it's better this happens over the summer.

Believe me, there’s people who want the current impasse to continue indefinitely.

Pretty much all of my road for a start. It’s no coincidence they’re all working from home (in spacious houses) and relishing not having to do the London commute - yet funnily enough catching a train is perfectly safe if they’re going to London for dinner.

I agree this probably isn’t the majority view outside of the Home Counties though.
 

nlogax

Established Member
Joined
29 May 2011
Messages
5,369
Location
Mostly Glasgow-ish. Mostly.
Believe me, there’s people who want the current impasse to continue indefinitely.

Pretty much all of my road for a start. It’s no coincidence they’re all working from home (inous houses) and relishing not having to do the London commute - yet funnily enough catching a train is perfectly safe if they’re going to London for dinner.

Have you been to each of their houses and asked them? Where's the Farcebook page for everyone who wants to stay at home indefinitely? Where's the national campaign?

I'm pretty bored of the windmill tilting going on here.
 

YorkshireBear

Established Member
Joined
23 Jul 2010
Messages
8,686
Interesting breakdown of COVID hospitalisations and deaths with the Delta Variant. I'm slightly suspicious about the deaths, i.e. did they catch it in hospital while in hospital dying of something else, we've had that discussion before. But quite reassuring regarding percentages that have been vaccinated in hospital.

BBC Live Feed
A total of 806 people in England have been admitted to hospital with the Delta variant of Covid-19 as of 14 June, new figures show.

This is a rise of 423 on the previous week, according to the data from Public Health England.

Of the 806 hospitalisations:

  • 527 (65%) people were unvaccinated
  • 135 (17%) were more than 21 days after their first dose of vaccine
  • 84 (10%) were more than 14 days after their second dose.
As of 14 June, there have been 73 deaths in England of people who were confirmed as having the Delta variant and who died within 28 days of a positive test.

Of the 73 deaths:

  • 34 (47%) were unvaccinated
  • 10 (14%) were more than 21 days after their first dose of vaccine
  • 26 (36%) were more than 14 days after their second dose.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

Veteran Member
Joined
17 Apr 2011
Messages
32,369
Location
A semi-rural part of north-west England
The Government seem secure for the period of this extension as they received overwhelming backing from both the Labour Party and the Liberal Democrats in the vote that was held. Who was it who coined the phrase "tarred with the same brush"?
 

bramling

Veteran Member
Joined
5 Mar 2012
Messages
17,754
Location
Hertfordshire / Teesdale
Have you been to each of their houses and asked them? Where's the Farcebook page for everyone who wants to stay at home indefinitely? Where's the national campaign?

I'm pretty bored of the windmill tilting going on here.

I talk to them, and the opinion is pretty clear - quite happy with how things are, want it to continue as long as possible, think Boris has done an absolutely fine job of things.

As long as they can continue working from home and have a break in Wales / Cornwall / Lake District (etc) every few weeks they’re very happy.
 

DustyBin

Established Member
Joined
20 Sep 2020
Messages
3,623
Location
First Class
I talk to them, and the opinion is pretty clear - quite happy with how things are, want it to continue as long as possible, think Boris has done an absolutely fine job of things.

As long as they can continue working from home and have a break in Wales / Cornwall / Lake District (etc) every few weeks they’re very happy.

To be fair I have my own anecdotes to support this, my GF has employees who seem willing to work from home at any cost (I use the term “working” loosely, which is a problem!). I can well believe there are a significant number of short sighted and downright selfish people out there with a similar outlook to be honest.
 

Ianno87

Veteran Member
Joined
3 May 2015
Messages
15,215
I talk to them, and the opinion is pretty clear - quite happy with how things are, want it to continue as long as possible, think Boris has done an absolutely fine job of things.

As long as they can continue working from home and have a break in Wales / Cornwall / Lake District (etc) every few weeks they’re very happy.

"I'm happy with working from home" does not mean the same thing as "I want to keep restrictions on everybody".
 

nlogax

Established Member
Joined
29 May 2011
Messages
5,369
Location
Mostly Glasgow-ish. Mostly.
"I'm happy with working from home" does not mean the same thing as "I want to keep restrictions on everybody".

Exactly this. There is a less than subtle difference between exploiting the benefits that Covid lockdowns have brought to some and wanting them to continue indefinitely for everyone. "I'm alright Jack" does not equate to "long may it continue, screw everyone else as long as I get my occasional break in the country".
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top