Cross Country Service Reductions and Alterations, 28-11-2021 onwards

[Skymonster]

I'm expecting the usual vitriol from the public on how staff are lazy etc, now that XC have tweeted "Due to train crew availability"

Staff are - they are not working in the same numbers as they have in the past. It really doesn’t matter what the union says - it’s just because it’s the railway, and the staff know there are no long term consequences in refusing to work even if that means huge numbers of paying customers are inconvenienced or even don‘t use the railway. If it was true private industry staff would work because they would know the consequence would be massive risk to the viability of the business (and staff jobs).

We shall continue to run our current timetables, although it will be necessary to cancel some services…"

Thats good: with, in XC’s admission, it is till running its current timetable and cancelling services there will be no reason to deny delay repay for customers already ready booked affected services.

 

[birchesgreen]

Staff are - they are not working in the same numbers as they have in the past. It really doesn’t matter what the union says - it’s just because it’s the railway, and the staff know there are no long term consequences in refusing to work even if that means huge numbers of paying customers are inconvenienced or even don‘t use the railway. If it was true private industry staff would work because they would know the consequence would be massive risk to the viability of the business (and staff jobs).

In private industry staff would, after a while, expect the business to recruit enough staff so demand wasn't met by endless overtime whether staff members wanted to do it or not.

 

[STINT47]

Without knowing more information it's hard to say who is to blame for this.

XC say the unions will not agree to RDW but is the offer the same or has something changed meaning they will not agree?

Is the union to blame? Are they asking for to much to sign a new agreement.

Or perhaps it's the DFT? Maybe the TOC and unions have an agreement but the goverment will not sign off on it to save money.

Either way it's been poorly communicated with no official information till today and what is on the website is pretty vague.

 

[Efini92]

Staff are - they are not working in the same numbers as they have in the past. It really doesn’t matter what the union says - it’s just because it’s the railway, and the staff know there are no long term consequences in refusing to work even if that means huge numbers of paying customers are inconvenienced or even don‘t use the railway. If it was true private industry staff would work because they would know the consequence would be massive risk to the viability of the business (and staff jobs).


Thats good: with, in XC’s admission, it is till running its current timetable and cancelling services there will be no reason to deny delay repay for customers already ready booked affected services.

So you’re saying all staff should do overtime or else risk losing their jobs?

 

[NEDdrv]

Without knowing more information it's hard to say who is to blame for this.

XC say the unions will not agree to RDW but is the offer the same or has something changed meaning they will not agree?

Is the union to blame? Are they asking for to much to sign a new agreement.

Or perhaps it's the DFT? Maybe the TOC and unions have an agreement but the goverment will not sign off on it to save money.

Either way it's been poorly communicated with no official information till today and what is on the website is pretty vague.

See #114

 

[talltim]

Reports on the other forum that they will be totally stood down on 28/11 and everything is Voyager only from 29/11.

Has the thread title been changed? The first post makes no sense on its own. As it happens I have a good idea what they are talking about, but

 

[175001]

Staff are - they are not working in the same numbers as they have in the past. It really doesn’t matter what the union says - it’s just because it’s the railway, and the staff know there are no long term consequences in refusing to work even if that means huge numbers of paying customers are inconvenienced or even don‘t use the railway. If it was true private industry staff would work because they would know the consequence would be massive risk to the viability of the business (and staff jobs).

Ah, said vitriol.

So you'll be blaming me then, for not working my rest days this weekend when cancellations at my TOC rack up?

Sorry that I want time off as per my rota..

Maybe direct your words to recruitment at XC, not the staff...

 

[swt_passenger]

Has the thread title been changed? The first post makes no sense on its own. As it happens I have a good idea what they are talking about, but

Yes it was changed. Until the reason became clear, at about post #30, the thread was about a rumour that HST withdrawal was imminent.

 

[Bald Rick]

Why ? If XC do not employ sufficient staff to run their service, fail for whatever reason to renew an overtime agreement that dealt with the shortfall, and then have to cancel scores of services with minimal notice, that is surely a matter for XC management ? Although I would hope that somebody in Government will be aware of the situation and taking a long hard look at XC.....

Exactly. Arriva are contracted by the DFT to operate those services and it's their responsibility, not the DFT's, to ensure they've got enough staff.

Changes to service levels such as this require the explicit agreement of the DfT. Changes to staffing levels require the explicit agreement of DfT. The question you might like to ask is what alternatives were presented to DfT.

 

[irish_rail]

Can't help but feeling that if staff at locations where able to drive all routes and traction (within reason) no matter what TOC , then this wouldn't be happening.
With XC having comparatively few drivers, they are unable to draw on the resources of other drivers who drive the same routes and traction but are not allowed to drive those Grey HSTs, only the green ones. Plymouth and Bristol GWR are too good examples where GWR staff could be used to work XC HSTs if necessary if only GBR would get its skates on and get on with merging traincrew depots, regardless of TOC.

 

[ValleyLines142]

With so many Nottingham to Birmingham and Nottingham to Cardiff trains not running next week the frequency of trains between Nottingham and Derby will at certain times of the day be no more than hourly. EMR are still running a reduced timetable and some hours the Nottingham to Crewe train doesn’t run and the Matlock trains are not running between Nottingham and Derby. Nottingham is really not getting a very good deal with services on local routes at the moment and this will not help.

To be fair, whilst obviously not a practical solution, there are plenty of buses which run between Derby and Nottingham, the Red Arrow of which only takes 45 minutes.

I think there is more of a concern for the southern end of the route between Cardiff, Gloucester and Birmingham. They are very overcrowded at the moment (in particular the 09:45 from Cardiff which is only booked for a 2 car service and lately the 10:45 which is usually a 4 car only seems to be 3 at the moment). At present, I currently have to stand in the vestibule of a 170 and switch at Cheltenham onto the hourly Scotland Voyager which is 15 minutes behind (but is most of the time a double set with the exception of the Plymouth to Aberdeen).

This is going to end badly, especially with Christmas being only four weeks down the line.

 

[Watershed]

Can't help but feeling that if staff at locations where able to drive all routes and traction (within reason) no matter what TOC , then this wouldn't be happening.
With XC having comparatively few drivers, they are unable to draw on the resources of other drivers who drive the same routes and traction but are not allowed to drive those Grey HSTs, only the green ones. Plymouth and Bristol GWR are too good examples where GWR staff could be used to work XC HSTs if necessary if only GBR would get its skates on and get on with merging traincrew depots, regardless of TOC.

Unfortunately there is no sign of things heading that way, even under GBR. The current franchises look set to continue under the surface, even if branding is aligned.

 

[bitzer]

decided to sign up after reading all of this.this through from managers today.looks like an entire month at the moment.staff being balloted too.strike looming perhaps?

so us Cardiff guys no clue what this will mean.

Forgive my ignorance, are these due to be cancelled if the strike happens or already cancelled. Is there a date range, e.g. it states the 1010 PGN to BRI on Saturday is cancelled but still shows as running for Sat 27th November on XC and NationalRail I believe?

 

[Watershed]

Forgive my ignorance, are these due to be cancelled if the strike happens or already cancelled. Is there a date range, e.g. it states the 1010 PGN to BRI on Saturday is cancelled but still shows as running for Sat 27th November on XC and NationalRail I believe?

They are the services which will be cancelled as a result of the non-renewal of the RDW agreement. This is only happening w/ef Sun so tomorrow should be unaffected - albeit Storm Arwen may put a spanner in the works.

 

[bitzer]

They are the services which will be cancelled as a result of the non-renewal of the RDW agreement. This is only happening w/ef Sun so tomorrow should be unaffected - albeit Storm Arwen may put a spanner in the works.

Thank you for letting me know, it is appreciated.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Given that the alternative to long distance XC journeys is often ‘via London’ (with traditionally higher fares etc) I wonder what impact this will have on other operators during the Xmas period. I’ve got a family member in Newcastle coming to the south west for the festive season and they’re already ditching the plan for a direct train and will be travelling with LNER and GWR to be on the safe side.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Changes to service levels such as this require the explicit agreement of the DfT. Changes to staffing levels require the explicit agreement of DfT. The question you might like to ask is what alternatives were presented to DfT.

None if they don't have access to adequate resources to run the full service.

Also given D of T are forecasting to exceed there support budget they need to find savings so why look a gift horse like this where they can blame the operator and pocket the savings on operating costs. Most staff aren't probably too bothered as base salaries are so much higher now than in BR days where the operation was run on low salaries but with the inducement of extra income from the likes of RDW.

In the long run the industry needs to tackle appropriate levels of base resource to run the service and that will cost more but with that comes reliability of service delivery especially at weekends. Question is will that certainty drive up revenue to compensate.

 

[Sleepy]

Surprised the company have not gone hell for leather on trying to renew the RDW (rest day working) agreement. But then no doubt the DfT pulling the purse strings doesn't help.

Clearly XC have been watching EMR and thought they've not had much flack, we can do thus too !

 

[AndrewE]

To be fair, whilst obviously not a practical solution, there are plenty of buses which run between Derby and Nottingham, the Red Arrow of which only takes 45 minutes.

But if you are not local and standing on a platform waiting for your connection why on earth should you be expected to wander off into the town instead to look for a bus stop - and then pay again for a journey you already have a through ticket for?

Trains are not the cheapest way to travel. People pay the premium to get timetabled services and connections (and trust "the railway" to deliver. It is one organisation as far as they are concerned.) With GBR it is 1 organisation now!
There is absolutely no excuse for suggesting that people should go looking for a bus when they have a through railway tickets and should have had trains to deliver them when they expected to arrive.

 

[AntoniC]

So this explains why I got an email this afternoon (from Trainsplit) to tell me that my journey from B`ham New Street to Wigan NW at 11.57 on 04/12/21 had been cancelled and to speak to staff at New St about which train to get home.

 

[Falcon1200]

Are you suggesting that management have decided to refuse to negotiate a new RDW agreement?

No, I don't believe I said or implied any such thing, simply that providing sufficient staff to operate their booked timetable, via whatever agreements are necessary, is a matter for XC management rather than Government.

 

[northernbelle]

Given that the alternative to long distance XC journeys is often ‘via London’ (with traditionally higher fares etc) I wonder what impact this will have on other operators during the Xmas period. I’ve got a family member in Newcastle coming to the south west for the festive season and they’re already ditching the plan for a direct train and will be travelling with LNER and GWR to be on the safe side.

GWR will be accepting XC tickets on various routes during this period of industrial action, including:

• Oxford - Banbury
• Basingstoke - Reading
• Cheltenham - Gloucester
• Cardiff - Bristol TM
• Paignton - Exeter - Taunton

There is no agreement for acceptance 'via London' at this stage that I'm aware of.

This currently applies from Monday 29th November until Sunday 5th December inclusive.

 

[Bald Rick]

None if they don't have access to adequate resources to run the full service.

I’m sure there will have been an option to settle the RDW agreement.

In the long run the industry needs to tackle appropriate levels of base resource to run the service and that will cost more but with that comes reliability of service delivery especially at weekends. Question is will that certainty drive up revenue to compensate.

100% agree.

 

[SteelWeelApeal]

GWR will be accepting XC tickets on various routes during this period of industrial action, including:

• Oxford - Banbury
• Basingstoke - Reading
• Cheltenham - Gloucester
• Cardiff - Bristol TM
• Paignton - Exeter - Taunton

There is no agreement for acceptance 'via London' at this stage that I'm aware of.

This currently applies from Monday 29th November until Sunday 5th December inclusive.

I wonder why they haven’t included Reading - Oxford, Taunton - Bristol - Gloucester, Plymouth (or Penzance) - Newton Abbot etc. Does that mean tickets aren’t being accepted on those routes, or is it just a non-exclusive list?

 

[ValleyLines142]

But if you are not local and standing on a platform waiting for your connection why on earth should you be expected to wander off into the town instead to look for a bus stop - and then pay again for a journey you already have a through ticket for?

Trains are not the cheapest way to travel. People pay the premium to get timetabled services and connections (and trust "the railway" to deliver. It is one organisation as far as they are concerned.) With GBR it is 1 organisation now!
There is absolutely no excuse for suggesting that people should go looking for a bus when they have a through railway tickets and should have had trains to deliver them when they expected to arrive.

Well I'd like to think that most people would be aware of any upcoming changes and wouldn't pay for a train ticket knowing the service wasn't running!

But even so, it's not practical as I say, but the fact it is there will be other places affected by this, not just Derby to Nottingham.

 

[northernbelle]

I wonder why they haven’t included Reading - Oxford, Taunton - Bristol - Gloucester, Plymouth (or Penzance) - Newton Abbot etc. Does that mean tickets aren’t being accepted on those routes, or is it just a non-exclusive list?

That I believe is the full list of acceptance. It reflects where the XC service disruption is expected I think - so the Paigntons look to be affected but not the Plymouth/Penzance workings, for example.

 

[skyhigh]

Yes, XC should have a Business Continuity plan. It’s clearly not worked properly here as we wouldn’t be having all of these cuts on Monday if it had.

Failing to provide such a significant chunk of their contracted services should in itself put them in default of their contract (not sure what type of contract XC are on currently but it shouldn’t make much of a difference to this), and therefore be grounds for the Operator of Last Resort to be at the very least mobilised, to take over in the event of the situation not be satisfactorily resolved by Arriva.

Why would the DfT take the contract off Arriva when Arriva are simply following their instructions?

This is exactly what has caused the problem of the HSTs being withdrawn and services cancelled. Traction knowledge can’t just be ignored by companies recruiting experienced drivers loyal to the railway

I would be disgusted if I had years experience driving HSTs and upon joining a company which operates HSTs being told I will not be allowed to drive them, only for them to be withdrawn from service due to lack of drivers! The whole thing is a farce and reminds me of teachers in schools telling me I’m not allowed to do anything without giving a reason or doing any actual teaching.

As others have said, you know what link and route/traction requirements are before you move and it's your choice not to move if you don't like that - but that's not the issue here. But I'm glad to see that you've managed to work out exactly why the HSTs might be stood down....

 

[irish_rail]

That I believe is the full list of acceptance. It reflects where the XC service disruption is expected I think - so the Paigntons look to be affected but not the Plymouth/Penzance workings, for example.

So can we assume the 2 +7 HSTs to and from Plymouth will be replaced by at least an 8 car voyager then???....

 

[DanNCL]

But its the DFT that are going mental about overtime... they are the ones pulling the strings and people fall for it every time.

Arriva should know what the procedure is for getting the money back from the DFT and should be perusing it. That procedure does not involve chopping services because the DFT haven’t yet paid, they have to stump up the money themselves at claim it back from the DFT later.

Why would the DfT take the contract off Arriva when Arriva are simply following their instructions?

The DFT have not instructed Arriva to make these changes. Arriva have made these changes, of their own accord, as they’ve failed to ensure they’ve got enough staff.

The DFT have to sign off long term timetable changes. The DFT generally don’t sign off changes like this for industrial disputes, that goes against the TOC.

 

[LowLevel]

Staff are - they are not working in the same numbers as they have in the past. It really doesn’t matter what the union says - it’s just because it’s the railway, and the staff know there are no long term consequences in refusing to work even if that means huge numbers of paying customers are inconvenienced or even don‘t use the railway. If it was true private industry staff would work because they would know the consequence would be massive risk to the viability of the business (and staff jobs).


Thats good: with, in XC’s admission, it is till running its current timetable and cancelling services there will be no reason to deny delay repay for customers already ready booked affected services.

In your world how many months/years is it acceptable to be phoned to work every day off every week before you're permitted to decline then?

I can only speak for myself but if I don't get a call from rosters asking me to either work my days off I've not made available to work or change my shifts outside my contract of employment it's unusual.

In fact this week I've had 4 such calls for separate occasions - 1 to work my rest days and 3 to change my shifts at short notice to something that my contract says I don't have to do.