CrossCountry coronavirus timetable - skipped stops

[lachlan]

I'm currently sitting in a CrossCountry train that is stopped in Haymarket for 20 minutes to make up time. The guard says this is due to fewer trains on a Sunday though we also skipped many stops (the train ran straight from Dundee to Haymarket without stopping).

IIRC I read that the stops were dropped to reduce overcrowding in the pandemic but this should no longer be a concern. Are there any plans to reinstate the stops and if not, will the timetable be tightened up to eliminate the long waits to make up time?

 

[Blindtraveler]

I'm not saying it's right that the coronavirus stopping pattern remains on some of cross-country is services but with the current situation on trains in Scotland in general, can you imagine just how overcrowded a presumably for or perhaps 5 car voyager would get if it didn't miss out many of its station calls? The answer I think would be unpleasant at best and a health and safety nightmare at worst

 

[Snow1964]

Cross Country still seems to think we are in the middle of a pandemic. They seem to have missed restrictions have ended.

There is not much logic in skipping stops at stations open to passengers, then sitting around for 20 minutes at another station.

 

[Bill57p9]

Looking at RTT, the service was also scheduled to sit in Waverley for 25 minutes, meaning it left Waverley 50 minutes after arriving at Haymarket. Not the most efficient use of time or resources.

Realtime Trains | 1V66 1110 Aberdeen to Bristol Temple Meads | 26/06/2022

Real-time train running information for 1V66 1110 departure from Aberdeen to Bristol Temple Meads on 26/06/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Jimini]

Brockenhurst is another example of this, I believe.

 

[alf]

And Winchester. It was a treat to race through the station at 90 mph on cross country during Covid.

 

[Watershed]

XC are still very much in "lockdown mode" timetable wise. Their Voyager routes are broadly still on half their pre-Covid frequencies (some extremities have even less than that).

Many stops are still being skipped, e.g. Winchester and Brockenhurst on most Bournemouth services, Chesterfield, Weston-super-Mare and Paignton on most NE-SW services, all stations between Haymarket and Aberdeen except Dundee on Scottish services, and Wilmslow and Crewe on some Manchester services.

It's rubbish. And even though they keep reserving the paths to restore a pre-Covid timetable, they still won't be returning to it in December. XC and the DfT clearly think they can get away with getting long term frequency and route cuts through on the quiet, having introduced them under the cover of Covid. Sadly, they're probably right.

 

[jfollows]

Agreed, Wilmslow used to have a down morning and up evening service (diverted via Wilmslow and Crewe to give a path for an extra Stoke-Manchester stopper) and now the trains run but don't stop at Wilmslow. Pre-Covid Wilmslow had an early 06:xx XC service to Bristol as well. A few years ago there was an evening service from Bournemouth (I think) which I used occasionally from Birmingham also.

I don't see any reason why the services haven't been reinstated now.

 

[dk1]

What is it with XC? They seem to go out of their way to be awkward. We understand to an extent traincrew shortages (although even that is wearing thin now) but still omitting certain stations even now.

 

[Rich McLean]

In my opinion, if XC are not using those reserved paths, then they should lose them.

 

[Watershed]

In my opinion, if XC are not using those reserved paths, then they should lose them.

There's a huge bunfight brewing on that very topic. The FOCs are very keen to get their hands on some improved/additional paths (or paths at all, on routes that are currently "too full") but they are frequently getting knocked back because of passenger services that end up not operating.

That means they either need to try again nearer the timetable start date, and risk getting worse paths with mere contingent rights, or do it STP, which creates a huge amount of workload for all parties.

Of course in a sense they are "hoist by their own petard", as TOCs' unused paths are protected by the same rules that allow FOCs to put in for a path and keep it even if they only run it very occasionally.

You can be sure that when one of the FOCs finally gets sufficiently p*ssed off about a rejection that it goes to the ORR or Court for a final decision, the DfT will be "making representations" to protect TOCs' paths, despite the fact that they are ultimately the reason behind this issue!

As with many problems on the railway, it comes down to the DfT wanting to have their cake and eat it...

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

XC are still very much in "lockdown mode" timetable wise. Their Voyager routes are broadly still on half their pre-Covid frequencies (some extremities have even less than that).

Many stops are still being skipped, e.g. Winchester and Brockenhurst on most Bournemouth services, Chesterfield, Weston-super-Mare and Paignton on most NE-SW services, all stations between Haymarket and Aberdeen except Dundee on Scottish services, and Wilmslow and Crewe on some Manchester services.

It's rubbish. And even though they keep reserving the paths to restore a pre-Covid timetable, they still won't be returning to it in December. XC and the DfT clearly think they can get away with getting long term frequency and route cuts through on the quiet, having introduced them under the cover of Covid. Sadly, they're probably right.

Forgive me for asking but how do you know they're not returning to the pre-covid timetable in December?

 

[The Planner]

NR can always buy the rights back off XC if they want. Can't ever see us trying a Part J on them.

 

[Efini92]

What is it with XC? They seem to go out of their way to be awkward. We understand to an extent traincrew shortages (although even that is wearing thin now) but still omitting certain stations even now.

It is all down to train crew shortages. Covid is just an easy thing to hide behind.

 

[dk1]

It is all down to train crew shortages. Covid is just an easy thing to hide behind.

Isn’t it just.

 

[Snow1964]

It is all down to train crew shortages. Covid is just an easy thing to hide behind.

The problem is it the excuse is out of date, a few weeks ago was starting to look silly as an excuse, now (3-4 months beyond end date of restrictions) it has moved into the just sounds incompetent category, like blaming a Christmas rush in the summer.

Every company had over 2 years to plan how to move forward when covid restrictions were ended, not being able to devise or implement any plan suggests stupidity by its managers and staff. And if timetable could be cut at a time other than December, then restoring it doesn’t need to wait until a December. I despair.

 

[Efini92]

The problem is it the excuse is out of date, a few weeks ago was starting to look silly as an excuse, now (3-4 months beyond end date of restrictions) it has moved into the just sounds incompetent category, like blaming a Christmas rush in the summer.

Every company had over 2 years to plan how to move forward when covid restrictions were ended, not being able to devise or implement any plan suggests stupidity by its managers and staff. And if timetable could be cut at a time other than December, then restoring it doesn’t need to wait until a December. I despair.

I completely agree. If they went back to a full pre covid timetable there would be cancellations all over the place for train crew shortages.

 

[Rich McLean]

XC have been told they cannot expand their establishment, so they have to manage with what they have got. They do have crew in training at the moment.

 

[class397tpe]

The problem is it the excuse is out of date, a few weeks ago was starting to look silly as an excuse, now (3-4 months beyond end date of restrictions) it has moved into the just sounds incompetent category, like blaming a Christmas rush in the summer.

Every company had over 2 years to plan how to move forward when covid restrictions were ended, not being able to devise or implement any plan suggests stupidity by its managers and staff. And if timetable could be cut at a time other than December, then restoring it doesn’t need to wait until a December. I despair.

Yep, at this point it just sounds like pure incompetence or laziness from management to do anything.
Heard there's a couple of avanti voyagers off-lease they could use to bolster capacity but doesn't seem like XC can be bothered.

 

[Dood75]

Still find it most odd that they dont serve Paignton during the summer months (from the NE/Midlands) using the HST sets as in previous years...seen something somewhere a while ago about the reason being they need the stock to double up...errr..its an HST ...you dont use that to double up...so no excuses surely to not serve Paignton instead of Plymouth (1V44 being the prime example)....

As has been said, Covid seems to be the ongoing excuse for XC...simply not good enough

Dudz

 

[Clarence Yard]

Yep, at this point it just sounds like pure incompetence or laziness from management to do anything.
Heard there's a couple of avanti voyagers off-lease they could use to bolster capacity but doesn't seem like XC can be bothered.

Unfair. They have asked and, last I heard, been kicked back. The DfT are all over this franchise, trying to keep costs to a minimum, irrespective of the effect on passengers.

 

[Snow1964]

Unfair. They have asked and, last I heard, been kicked back. The DfT are all over this franchise, trying to keep costs to a minimum, irrespective of the effect on passengers.

In that case they should stop saying it is due to Covid (which it no longer is) and start being truthful to the paying public who are their passengers.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Unfair. They have asked and, last I heard, been kicked back. The DfT are all over this franchise, trying to keep costs to a minimum, irrespective of the effect on passengers.

Based on the latest data Dft has published on operator support costs XC is middle of the pack in how much its managed to reduce supports payments over the previous year. Northern is by far and way the worst of the operators although they already had high support pre covid so may not be a straight forward comparison but as the are OLR they aren't subject to the same level of DfT intrusion.

 

[Snow1964]

Unfair. They have asked and, last I heard, been kicked back. The DfT are all over this franchise, trying to keep costs to a minimum, irrespective of the effect on passengers.

The other problem with cross country is its ticketing. The prices are so off putting that many of its customers will use split ticketing.

This rather makes it difficult to spot the busy flows from ticket sales, and probably leads to some of its revenue being apportioned to other operators. Where they have dropped stations like Winchester, Chesterfield etc they presumably don’t get revenue even if someone changes onto their train few miles down the track, rather than much further away.

 

[Birmingham]

Still find it most odd that they dont serve Paignton during the summer months (from the NE/Midlands) using the HST sets as in previous years...seen something somewhere a while ago about the reason being they need the stock to double up...errr..its an HST ...you dont use that to double up...so no excuses surely to not serve Paignton instead of Plymouth (1V44 being the prime example)....

As has been said, Covid seems to be the ongoing excuse for XC...simply not good enough

Dudz

1V41 goes to Paignton but it starts from… Bristol. Somewhat defeats the purpose! It used to start from at least Birmingham, perhaps Manchester and a useful commute train. This also means the first arrival in Bristol from Birmingham is not until 08:38 on 1V42.

 

[class397tpe]

In that case they should stop saying it is due to Covid (which it no longer is) and start being truthful to the paying public who are their passengers.

It would certainly be interesting if TOCs were transparent with the public with these matters. For example, in 2008 when TPE had horrible overcrowding and wanted to extend the 185s to 4-cars but the SRA said no, if they had just come out and bluntly told the public that the government wouldn't let them extend their trains to reduce overcrowding.

 

[deepblueN96]

Another connection that's completely missing currently is from York/Leeds/ Derby to Oxford/ Reading. The direct trains seem to be history anyway, but even with changing at New Street there's a 58 or 60 min wait. In other words, the worst possible connection with hourly frequencies either side. XC could not do more to push this traffic flow to LNER/ EMR and GWR. (To be fair, in the other direction the connection in Birmingham works well )

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Still find it most odd that they dont serve Paignton during the summer months (from the NE/Midlands) using the HST sets as in previous years...seen something somewhere a while ago about the reason being they need the stock to double up...errr..its an HST ...you dont use that to double up...so no excuses surely to not serve Paignton instead of Plymouth (1V44 being the prime example)....

As has been said, Covid seems to be the ongoing excuse for XC...simply not good enough

Dudz

Because the service to Plymouth is generally only every 2 hours if you divert a service to Paignton that leaves a massive gap in services to Plymouth.

 

[fgwrich]

XC are still very much in "lockdown mode" timetable wise. Their Voyager routes are broadly still on half their pre-Covid frequencies (some extremities have even less than that).

Many stops are still being skipped, e.g. Winchester and Brockenhurst on most Bournemouth services, Chesterfield, Weston-super-Mare and Paignton on most NE-SW services, all stations between Haymarket and Aberdeen except Dundee on Scottish services, and Wilmslow and Crewe on some Manchester services.

It's rubbish. And even though they keep reserving the paths to restore a pre-Covid timetable, they still won't be returning to it in December. XC and the DfT clearly think they can get away with getting long term frequency and route cuts through on the quiet, having introduced them under the cover of Covid. Sadly, they're probably right.

Thankfully SWR has at least re-introduced a number of their services, at the lowest point, getting to Winchester from Basingstoke or Southampton was down to a miserable 1 train per hour. Why XC continues to skip out Winchester from many of it's services amazes me though, it's a university city and a fairly busy station as well. I've also noticed there are still a number of patches in the XC timetable, mostly remaining at 1TPH but at some parts of the day drops to 1 train every 2 hours (eg from Basingstoke we seem to go 10:48 > 12:48 > 14:48 > 16:48 > 17:48 > 19:48 > 20:48).

What is it with XC? They seem to go out of their way to be awkward. We understand to an extent traincrew shortages (although even that is wearing thin now) but still omitting certain stations even now.

What is more irritating for some of us here in the south, is that XC's Voyagers are stabled in Eastleigh. So despite the Southampton & Reading services being cut back to Reading and Banbury, they still have to run through Eastleigh / Winchester and Basingstoke before they start their service. Presumably Reading must have a fairly large XC depot, but it's a little frustrating knowing what was once a useful service to get to work is now an ECS.

 

[Starmill]

What is it with XC? They seem to go out of their way to be awkward. We understand to an extent traincrew shortages (although even that is wearing thin now) but still omitting certain stations even now.

To be fair they're not alone. Both TPE and XC have probably got enough staff to run only around 55-65% of the December 2019 timetable by train kilometres. It's just that XC are handling it with a permanently reduced timetable and TPE are handling it by giving in to chaos. ScotRail have already implemented a significant permanent cut of around 20% for the same reason, and that's also much too optimistic a timetable and has had to be reduced again.