Crossrail - Construction updates and progress towards opening (now expected 24 May 2022)

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subk2010

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As for the limited edition of the Elizabeth Line Oyster Card, is it possible to buy the Oyster Card via ticket vending machine at any Zone 1 LU stations before the time of the first train depart on 24 May?
 

ijmad

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Most trains from Shenfield will terminate at Paddington. I think (but it might have changed) that the two to T5 will come from Shenfield and that's it

Most of the speculation I'd seen suggested that will be the situation during the peaks, but off peak each western destination all alternate between Abbey Wood and Shenfield.

I wonder what the most pleasant station will be for "getting off and waiting for the train behind" to make a change when needed out of Bond Street, TCR, Farringdon and Liverpool Street and Whitechapel. Maybe Bond Street as has the fewest interchange possibilities so will have less footfall.
 

JaJaWa

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The "it's 'Elizabeth line' because it's a mode" argument has been taken to new heights by whoever removed the word "line" after all the other lines even in the audio announcements onboard the trains: https://twitter.com/callummarius/status/1525064634839060480
(Link to a video of the announcement which says "Next station Tottenham Court Road, change for Central and Northern")

(The correct way for announcing an interchange to a different mode would be "Next station Tottenham Court Road, change for London Underground Central and Northern lines" as used on London Overground)
 
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Acton1991

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The "it's 'Elizabeth line' because it's a mode" argument has been taken to new heights by whoever removed the word "line" after all the other lines even in the audio announcements onboard the trains: https://twitter.com/callummarius/status/1525064634839060480
(Link to a video of the announcement which says "Next station Tottenham Court Road, change for Central and Northern")

(The correct way for announcing an interchange to a different mode would be "Next station Tottenham Court Road, change for London Underground Central and Northern lines" as used on London Overground)
I don't think it's ever said 'line' during these announcements, even during TfL Rail days in the west. I could be wrong though!
 

Fanfan

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As for the limited edition of the Elizabeth Line Oyster Card, is it possible to buy the Oyster Card via ticket vending machine at any Zone 1 LU stations before the time of the first train depart on 24 May?
It seems they are already available at some stations. not sure which ones
 

JonathanH

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This is surely a mistake isn't it. I thought 10tph of the trains from the east would go towards reading with 2tph going to Heathrow
Reading is never going to have a 10tph Crossrail service, more like 2tph off peak.

Most of the speculation I'd seen suggested that will be the situation during the peaks, but off peak each western destination all alternate between Abbey Wood and Shenfield.
Really? Does that ultimately mean 1tph Reading to Abbey Wood and 1tph Reading to Shenfield?
 

hwl

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Most of the speculation I'd seen suggested that will be the situation during the peaks, but off peak each western destination all alternate between Abbey Wood and Shenfield.
Which wouldn't meet the stipulations of the Canary Wharf funding and the required Canary Wharf - Heathrow service levels, so take the speculation with a pinch of salt...

The limited GWML - Shenfield running is focussed around the transition from peak to off peak service patterns and vice-versa
 

Basil Jet

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I presume that the Canary Wharf Group coughed up in order to get the Abbey Wood branch to hog the Heathrow trains, but is there a time limit in the contract after which the Heathrow trains might be switched to the Shenfield branch?
 

Taunton

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I presume that the Canary Wharf Group coughed up in order to get the Abbey Wood branch to hog the Heathrow trains, but is there a time limit in the contract after which the Heathrow trains might be switched to the Shenfield branch?
Sure - and if that's done the money Canary Wharf Group spent on the station there to get a Heathrow link can be repaid too.
 

Watershed

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I presume that the Canary Wharf Group coughed up in order to get the Abbey Wood branch to hog the Heathrow trains, but is there a time limit in the contract after which the Heathrow trains might be switched to the Shenfield branch?
That may be one of the reasons, but it's also worth noting that Shenfield-Reading/Heathrow services import a significant performance risk by crossing between Network Rail regions with effectively zero buffer.

Once the full timetable is an operation, they will have a window of around 60 seconds within which they must present, otherwise they will miss their slot across the core. It's the same issue as Thameslink really.

Hence why I can quite understand the desire to have as many self-contained services as possible, rather than interacting with the 'outside' railway.

The direct trains from Reading to Shenfield etc. are nice and all, but ultimately I don't think there is a massive end-to-end demand - seeing as, particularly from Reading and Shenfield, there will be other trains which will overtake Crossrail services, and thus for many flows it will remain quicker to change at Stratford/Paddington/Liverpool St HL onto Crossrail.
 

Roger100

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Elizabeth line: London unveils new Tube line, 10 stories underground​


The sooner TfL stop insisting on this as a separate mode the better, very few will not see the Elizabeth line as part of the Underground
That's a London-centric view though. People in, say, Maidenhead might have a different opinion. There's no tube in Maidenhead and the class 345 trains are already their local service - they're 'the train'. They're not going to call it 'the tube' from the 24th.
 

Acton1991

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That's a London-centric view though. People in, say, Maidenhead might have a different opinion. There's no tube in Maidenhead and the class 345 trains are already their local service - they're 'the train'. They're not going to call it 'the tube' from the 24th.
Especially as they will continue to get a relatively sparse service vs the core
 

stuu

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I presume that the Canary Wharf Group coughed up in order to get the Abbey Wood branch to hog the Heathrow trains, but is there a time limit in the contract after which the Heathrow trains might be switched to the Shenfield branch?
Is this a purely academic question?

Otherwise it should be glaringly obvious which branch will have a higher demand for direct trains to Heathrow
 

ijmad

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If Shenfield to Paddington and Abbey Wood to Heathrow/Reading represents the end goal of the service, what exactly is there to do after Autumn? Just the frequency bump?
 

Basil Jet

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Sure - and if that's done the money Canary Wharf Group spent on the station there to get a Heathrow link can be repaid too.

Are you saying there is no time limit on the obligation to tie Heathrow to Abbey Wood?

Is this a purely academic question?

Otherwise it should be glaringly obvious which branch will have a higher demand for direct trains to Heathrow
Okay, but if ten years down the line they want to run trains every 5 minutes on each eastern branch and every 7.5 minutes to Heathrow, the contractual obligation would be very inconvenient.
 

Non Multi

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If Shenfield to Paddington and Abbey Wood to Heathrow/Reading represents the end goal of the service, what exactly is there to do after Autumn? Just the frequency bump?
AIUI, Abbey Wood - Maidenhead/Reading commences in Winter '22.
 

stuu

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Are you saying there is no time limit on the obligation to tie Heathrow to Abbey Wood?


Okay, but if ten years down the line they want to run trains every 5 minutes on each eastern branch and every 7.5 minutes to Heathrow, the contractual obligation would be very inconvenient.
Obviously I'm not privy to the contract, but I would have thought it would specify something like a minimum through service e.g. 4 tph. There wouldn't be a restriction on operating from Shenfield as well, the restriction is demand and line capacity
 

JonathanH

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Wasn't the final service pattern for reading 4 off peak /4 peak with a further 2 trains in the peak from Maidenhead
I thought that 2 Reading / 2 Maidenhead off-peak and 4 Reading / 2 Maidenhead peak was the eventual plan. Obviously, any cancellation of off-peak GWR services on the relief line could change the balance.

45 months ago, this was conjecture about the eventual service.
https://londonist.com/london/transport/how-frequently-will-crossrail-trains-run
purple_train_frequencies.jpg


However, there have been suggestions that some sort of recast is needed on the west side.
 

Basil Jet

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I just released that the Greenford branch, which until a few years ago had direct trains to Acton Main Line, will need three trains to get there. It'd be quicker to go up to Greenford and walk from North Acton!
 

matt_world2004

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I thought that 2 Reading / 2 Maidenhead off-peak and 4 Reading / 2 Maidenhead peak was the eventual plan. Obviously, any cancellation of off-peak GWR services on the relief line could change the balance.

45 months ago, this was conjecture about the eventual service.
https://londonist.com/london/transport/how-frequently-will-crossrail-trains-run
purple_train_frequencies.jpg


However, there have been suggestions that some sort of recast is needed on the west side.
You're right I was getting the Maidenhead and readings mixed up . Although the two peak readings are replaced by GwR services off peak meaning some stations like Hayes and Harlington would get a higher frequency off peak than peak
 

itfcfan

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I thought that 2 Reading / 2 Maidenhead off-peak and 4 Reading / 2 Maidenhead peak was the eventual plan. Obviously, any cancellation of off-peak GWR services on the relief line could change the balance.

45 months ago, this was conjecture about the eventual service.
https://londonist.com/london/transport/how-frequently-will-crossrail-trains-run
purple_train_frequencies.jpg


However, there have been suggestions that some sort of recast is needed on the west side.
Another perspective of the eventual service was presented on London Reconnections at a similar time to that Londonist article.

The Crossrail: Timetable for Success? article, published in August 2018 suggests that skip-stopping was to be reduced across the western services for reasons of practicality.
Crossrail-service-pattern-peak.png


I guess in ~12 months time we'll see which version of reality occurs...
 

Non Multi

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