Crossrail - Construction updates and progress towards opening (now expected 24 May 2022)

[AM9]

Judging by https://tfl.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=5129c766255941d3be16a6828faa8f18, TCR E/B is the only curved one.

Thanks.

I think the Zorro moves are for when engineering work has closed one track and the other is being used 2-way. They're called Zorro after the Z-shape of a train double-reversing in order to continue in the same direction on a different track, i.e. not terminating.

Being acceptable in exceptional circumstances whilst keeping the benefit of only training crossovers.

[/QUOTE]Do people like the striped light on the roof of the corridor? I can't help thinking a suitable lens on top of the lights could have sent less light straight up and more light out at an angle, creating a perfectly uniform lit ceiling. Or is it more arty to have stripes of light?[/QUOTE]

It looks fine to me, - I think it may look like stripes on the ceiling when viewed from a distance because much of the light is directed vertically over something like a 2 x 4 metre area of panneling directly above the totems. But the tunnels where they are used are the main footways and judging by the view at 06:05, the tunnel is wider than three escalators including side enclosures, - I wouild guess that the total width is around 7-8 metres with the totems a similar distance apart. Those tunnels are really big compared with what we are used to on the tube. Compare the picture of the central circulation area of Gants Hill Central Line station at 01:15), three escalators occupy the whole width of that area, unfortunately, the view is taken from the foot of those escalators so you would need to look at top left picture at the same time point which I think is Piccadilly Circus.

 

[Peter Sarf]

There is no loop at Battersea. The Battersea extension connects directly to the loop at Kennington though

Gawd, how could I forget. The loop is old and the new bit branches off it !.

 

[Horizon22]

I suspect the ease of having consistent platforming at Paddington overrides the small time benefit you could gain. The Picc platforms at Kings Cross get chaotic enough when a service is reversed there, while there's going to be more space at Paddington, there's also a lot more train to sort out.

It’s an island platform and the circulating area in the middle is huge, so I don’t think the impact will be as bad.

You're talking about a train leaving KX southward from the northbound platform and then crossing over. I presume the other poster meant that the terminating Liz train would cross over before terminating in the E/B platform, and thus leave E/B from the correct platform.

This is indeed what I meant.

 

[londontransit]

Judging by https://tfl.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=5129c766255941d3be16a6828faa8f18, TCR E/B is the only curved one.

I think the Zorro moves are for when engineering work has closed one track and the other is being used 2-way. They're called Zorro after the Z-shape of a train double-reversing in order to continue in the same direction on a different track, i.e. not terminating.

Thats why I put it in commas, because those at Westbourne Park /Royal Oak aren't exactly Zorros!

In terms of the real Zorro locations, as I pointed out in an earlier post, these are being reduced to just one site in the central core tunnels themselves where that move could potentially take place. Its because of a simplification in how the CCOS will be operated.

 

[drams1221]

Just come in from David Pearce, Elizabeth Line delivery manager, that they have accepted the 70th and final class 345 (345018) into traffic.

David Pearce CEng on LinkedIn: Full house! Today marks a significant milestone for the Elizabeth Line… | 20 comments

Full house! Today marks a significant milestone for the Elizabeth Line with the acceptance into traffic of the final Class 345. A mega effort from the whole… | 20 comments on LinkedIn

www.linkedin.com

 

[PG]

It also states that auto-reverse takes 2 minutes, and manual reverse takes seven minutes.

So reversing trains will be tipped out at Paddington, and autoreverse is planned to be used elsewhere including in passenger service.

Ok, so autoreverse can be used while passengers are onboard, but passengers cannot be onboard between Paddington and Westbourne Park sidings.

I can't see how, if the driver remains in the leading cab until the train has stopped in the sidings, and only then walks the length of the train to the other end before it starts back to Paddington, if can save any time at all.

I get the feeling you and me are both missing some crucial bit of knowledge here...

 

[FOH]

Is there not some nuance here that if a passenger dives on board last second the train can go and reverse with presumably some soothing automated "all will be ok" message to placate the errant passenger (best endeavours in other words) Vs 1x passenger overcarried = no biscuits interviews

 

[PG]

Is there not some nuance here that if a passenger dives on board last second the train can go and reverse with presumably some soothing automated "all will be ok" message to placate the errant passenger (best endeavours in other words) Vs 1x passenger overcarried = no biscuits interviews

Surely the doors close then platform staff confirm that train is empty so nobody can board before the autoreverse commences?

 

[theking]

Is there not some nuance here that if a passenger dives on board last second the train can go and reverse with presumably some soothing automated "all will be ok" message to placate the errant passenger (best endeavours in other words) Vs 1x passenger overcarried = no biscuits interviews

I imagine the platform staff will confirm the train is empty then give the signal to close doors then and only then will they give the signal to depart.

If someone jumps on last minute I imagine the doors will be reopened and the person booted off, just like what happens elsewhere.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

I imagine the platform staff will confirm the train is empty then give the signal to close doors then and only then will they give the signal to depart.

If someone jumps on last minute I imagine the doors will be reopened and the person booted off, just like what happens elsewhere.

All takes time though would have been better for a train to terminate in a bay road and start back removes the variability of human behaviour.

 

[miklcct]

You don’t want drivers swapping trains unnecessarily, it would be a recipe for major chaos during disruption.

Can you explain more about this? In Hong Kong, drivers swap trains regularly during peak hours because it will take too long for a driver to walk from one end to the other in the turnaround time, so drivers will step back one or two departures at the terminus with another driver at the other end immediately ready for taking over the train.

 

[AM9]

All takes time though would have been better for a train to terminate in a bay road and start back removes the variability of human behaviour.

There isn't a bay road and given the likely temporary arrangement of auto reversing pending changes after OOC is completed, it would be a ridiculous waste of money.

 

[whoosh]

Anybody else have reservations about 'auto reverse' from Plumstead stabling sidings to Abbey Wood?

Trains will have the driver at the west end (leading end) on leaving the sidings, then the train will enter a reversing siding and back into Abbey Wood Station with the driver at the same end (now the trailing end of the train). Upon arrival at Abbey Wood, the driver will be at what will become the leading end to depart towards central London.

No Platform Edge Doors (PEDs) are fitted at Abbey Wood station.

"But the DLR has platforms like that without them."

Yes, but the Elizabeth Line does have them, just not at Abbey Wood - the one station where trains will enter platforms with no-one in the cab at the leading end of the movement, when entering service from the sidings.

Why have the safety of PEDs elsewhere, but not there?

Auto-reverse gives concerns at Westbourne Park - the possibility of trespassers, but Westbourne Park sidings aren't a station, and Paddington has PEDs and also the driver should've reached the leading cab by the time the train enters Paddington anyway.

I'm just surprised that safety seems to have been compromised at Abbey Wood, and it doesn't really make any sense.

 

[rebmcr]

Anybody else have reservations about 'auto reverse' from Plumstead stabling sidings to Abbey Wood?

Trains will have the driver at the west end (leading end) on leaving the sidings, then the train will enter a reversing siding and back into Abbey Wood Station with the driver at the same end (now the trailing end of the train). Upon arrival at Abbey Wood, the driver will be at what will become the leading end to depart towards central London.

No Platform Edge Doors (PEDs) are fitted at Abbey Wood station.

"But the DLR has platforms like that without them."

Yes, but the Elizabeth Line does have them, just not at Abbey Wood - the one station where trains will enter platforms with no-one in the cab at the leading end of the movement, when entering service from the sidings.

Why have the safety of PEDs elsewhere, but not there?

Auto-reverse gives concerns at Westbourne Park - the possibility of trespassers, but Westbourne Park sidings aren't a station, and Paddington has PEDs and also the driver should've reached the leading cab by the time the train enters Paddington anyway.

I'm just surprised that safety seems to have been compromised at Abbey Wood, and it doesn't really make any sense.

There are vastly many more stations, featuring trains where drivers are in the leading cab, where a passenger leaving the platform will have an unpleasant interaction because the train cannot stop in time.

The presence of a driver in the cab is kind of irrelevant — passengers must simply keep out of the track area in both instances.

 

[bluenoxid]

There are vastly many more stations, featuring trains where drivers are in the leading cab, where a passenger leaving the platform will have an unpleasant interaction because the train cannot stop in time.

The presence of a driver in the cab is kind of irrelevant — passengers must simply keep out of the track area in both instances.

Will there be any platform based auto stop functionality at the station (a big red plunger)? I assume the station has not got third rail in these platforms?

 

[Horizon22]

All takes time though would have been better for a train to terminate in a bay road and start back removes the variability of human behaviour.

This is standard ECS (empty coaching stock) procedure for the railway though. Nothing particularly special here, other than the need to do it fairly quickly and thus several staff (as opposed to normally just 1 or 2) are provided before the train is on its way to Westbourne Park.

 

[Acton1991]

Citymapper has now added the Elizabeth line to its maps allowing users to view how their journeys will change once the line is open. Very exciting!

 

[stuu]

Anybody else have reservations about 'auto reverse' from Plumstead stabling sidings to Abbey Wood?

Trains will have the driver at the west end (leading end) on leaving the sidings, then the train will enter a reversing siding and back into Abbey Wood Station with the driver at the same end (now the trailing end of the train). Upon arrival at Abbey Wood, the driver will be at what will become the leading end to depart towards central London.

No Platform Edge Doors (PEDs) are fitted at Abbey Wood station.

"But the DLR has platforms like that without them."

Yes, but the Elizabeth Line does have them, just not at Abbey Wood - the one station where trains will enter platforms with no-one in the cab at the leading end of the movement, when entering service from the sidings.

Why have the safety of PEDs elsewhere, but not there?

Auto-reverse gives concerns at Westbourne Park - the possibility of trespassers, but Westbourne Park sidings aren't a station, and Paddington has PEDs and also the driver should've reached the leading cab by the time the train enters Paddington anyway.

I'm just surprised that safety seems to have been compromised at Abbey Wood, and it doesn't really make any sense.

There aren't any reversing sidings at Abbey Wood, there is only a cripple siding. My understanding is that the train will arrive with the driver at the front (east end), and remain there will the train reverses out automatically, so would be able to monitor the platform in the same way as if they were at the front

 

[Horizon22]

Citymapper has now added the Elizabeth line to its maps allowing users to view how their journeys will change once the line is open. Very exciting!

I don’t have city mapper but how are they forecasting it without known service times yet? is the interchange information already known? We know it will be every 5 minutes, but that can be the difference between making a connection and not, but at least you won’t wait long making it still probably quite attractive.

There aren't any reversing sidings at Abbey Wood, there is only a cripple siding. My understanding is that the train will arrive with the driver at the front (east end), and remain there will the train reverses out automatically, so would be able to monitor the platform in the same way as if they were at the front

Yes they’d be at the leading end of the train, just as if they’d driven it in service from Woolwich. I think the intention is driver step ups at Abbey Wood anyway in which case another driver would be ready at what was the trailing end (to become the leading end to London).

Edit: So I’ve had a look at Citymapper and I’d say 2 minutes is a bit ambitious for Paddington!

 

[James H]

Citymapper also doesn't seem to have all the new Elizabeth Line entrances/exits added - planning a journey to Tottenham Court Road it doesn't suggest the new exit on Dean Street.

 

[ctom_s]

citymapper is saying a 7 minute walk at Woolwich to change and a 6 minute walk to get to the platforms at Liv Street, does that sound accurate seems a lot lol?

 

[DC1989]

citymapper is saying a 7 minute walk at Woolwich to change and a 6 minute walk to get to the platforms at Liv Street, does that sound accurate seems a lot lol?

Citymapper is pretty bad for walking, it always overestimates in my experience. It says it's an 11 min walk from my house to the station for instance when it's actually 4/5 mins. I think walk from Woolwich Arsenal to Woolwich XR will be a bit less than that 3-4 mins is my estimate

 

[Class 170101]

Barking H&C has been rumoured for installation

Most services terminating there use Bay platform 3 in my experience.

 

[Dstock7080]

Most services terminating there use Bay platform 3 in my experience.

off-peak H&C trains have been scheduled to use the sidings from WTT30 13 December 2013, peak-hours trains from WTT32 14 December 2014.
Only District trains use platform 3.

 

[Acton1991]

Citymapper also doesn't seem to have all the new Elizabeth Line entrances/exits added - planning a journey to Tottenham Court Road it doesn't suggest the new exit on Dean Street.

Also interestingly for me, it says my local station (Acton Main Line) will have trains every 10 minutes, but I was under the impression that AML would only be 4 trains per hour. So I think the data is a little off all round.

 

[345 050]

I imagine the platform staff will confirm the train is empty then give the signal to close doors then and only then will they give the signal to depart.

If someone jumps on last minute I imagine the doors will be reopened and the person booted off, just like what happens elsewhere.

I doubt they will be able to jump on last minute, I would expect the doors to be closed carriage by carriage, as they confirm the carriages are empty. I would expect the main bottleneck to be the time it takes to empty trains on the westbound platform before running empty. Auto reverse seems like a red herring. There are 3 reversing sidings, and surely in worst case they can also send units to old oak in event of major disruption?

The question is, when do the drivers start walking? If they can't start until the train gets to Westbourne Park sidings then surely the benefits of auto reverse will be limited. I'm sure I'm definitely missing something crucial here...

Just come in from David Pearce, Elizabeth Line delivery manager, that they have accepted the 70th and final class 345 (345018) into traffic.

David Pearce CEng on LinkedIn: Full house! Today marks a significant milestone for the Elizabeth Line… | 20 comments

Full house! Today marks a significant milestone for the Elizabeth Line with the acceptance into traffic of the final Class 345. A mega effort from the whole… | 20 comments on LinkedIn

www.linkedin.com

This is great news, although I guess this post would be better suited for the Class 345 introduction thread?

 

[rebmcr]

The question is, when do the drivers start walking? If they can't start until the train gets to Westbourne Park sidings then surely the benefits of auto reverse will be limited. I'm sure I'm definitely missing something crucial here...

It's been confirmed that the plan is for drivers to be walking while the train is in motion. Either earlier in this thread, or elsewhere on this site. I'm not particularly inclined to trawl through thousands of replies to find it, but perhaps someone else is willing.

 

[coppercapped]

I doubt they will be able to jump on last minute, I would expect the doors to be closed carriage by carriage, as they confirm the carriages are empty. I would expect the main bottleneck to be the time it takes to empty trains on the westbound platform before running empty. Auto reverse seems like a red herring. There are 3 reversing sidings, and surely in worst case they can also send units to old oak in event of major disruption?

The question is, when do the drivers start walking? If they can't start until the train gets to Westbourne Park sidings then surely the benefits of auto reverse will be limited. I'm sure I'm definitely missing something crucial here...


This is great news, although I guess this post would be better suited for the Class 345 introduction thread?

It will be difficult to clear the train carriage by carriage as the train is open from one end to the other. The inter-carriage connections are full width with no doors between the carriages.

 

[rebmcr]

It will be difficult to clear the train carriage by carriage as the train is open from one end to the other. The inter-carriage connections are full width with no doors between the carriages.

The way it works with S Stock is that the driver uses a cab control to put the carriage doors into de-training mode, then walks through and holds down each door open button that they pass — this locks the doors while that mode is active.

 

[swt_passenger]

Can you explain more about this? In Hong Kong, drivers swap trains regularly during peak hours because it will take too long for a driver to walk from one end to the other in the turnaround time, so drivers will step back one or two departures at the terminus with another driver at the other end immediately ready for taking over the train.

Stepping back is already in common use at numerous LU locations as well.