Cyclists - your experiences on the road

[Non Multi]

It's 1.5m (5ft)!

 

[Ianno87]

Well I was taught during driving lessons that you leave a cars width when passing cyclists to minimise risk of injury for if they fall over while your overtaking and to not intimidate them. Is that incorrect?

"Leave the same space for overtaking as you would if it were a car" is the guidance I've seen.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Well I was taught during driving lessons that you leave a cars width when passing cyclists to minimise risk of injury for if they fall over while your overtaking and to not intimidate them. Is that incorrect?

It's not so far as I can see specified in the Highway Code.

The rule I tend to use is that I will pull fully into the other lane (so positioned the same as if I was driving in that lane in the other direction) to complete an overtake. Whether that gives you a 2m gap or not depends rather on the road width. Obviously it gives a cyclist (who may wobble) rather more than it does a car driver (who if they are driving in any way competently won't).

It's 1.5m (5ft)!

I don't think a precise distance is specified in the current Highway Code, or at least I couldn't find one.

 

[Non Multi]

It's not so far as I can see specified in the
I don't think a precise distance is specified in the current Highway Code, or at least I couldn't find one.

It's what Cycling UK (formerly the CTC) advise and have lobbied for, I think a few police forces have recommended that as a safe distance. The published advice is "Give them plenty of room" (Rule 212).

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's what Cycling UK (formerly the CTC) advise and have lobbied for, I think a few police forces have recommended that as a safe distance. The published advice is "Give them plenty of room" (Rule 212).

I think it's better to say to pull fully into the other lane as if you were overtaking a car. Not possible on narrower roads so sometimes closer might make sense, but it's probably sensible to take the cyclist's guidance on that - they will tend to ride in the primary position if they don't feel comfortable with it being attempted, or move to the side of the road if they do.

 

[SynthD]

It is not an arbitrary distance it is the distance recommended in the highway code for vehicles to overtake other vehicles (particularly cyclists)

Yes, but I question the sense in applying that to shared paths.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes, but I question the sense in applying that to shared paths.

Indeed. The risk of death on the road is much higher, so the margins need to be wider. You'd have to be in pretty poor health to be killed by a bicycle going at 10mph, say (though it has happened, to be fair).

 

[matt_world2004]

Indeed. The risk of death on the road is much higher, so the margins need to be wider. You'd have to be in pretty poor health to be killed by a bicycle going at 10mph, say (though it has happened, to be fair).

Getting knocked over at any speed can kill you poor health or not. Particularly if you got your head on rocks.

 

[Techniquest]

Bletchleyite, that is pretty grim, regardless of whose fault it was. Thanks for genning me up

Yes this whole 2 metres thing is not in the Highway Code from what I can see. While it would be ideal in many situations, as has been pointed out it's just impossible most of the way. It's worth adding most of us don't necessarily mind if it's not a huge gap, but overtaking in places where it's dangerous is my bigger concern.

Such as overtaking on a corner or the crest of a hill, where view of anything coming the other way is completely blocked. Yet this sort of thing happens far too often. Overtaking on a fairly narrow road, with traffic coming the other way, I also take some issue with. If it's not safe to go around, then don't go is my answer.

Whatever happens in the future, there's going to be foolish drivers out there. I like to think I'm considerate of other road users, indeed I had a double-length lorry from Poland in front of me yesterday on the final stretch of my ride. A lorry that long had no chance of seeing me behind him in traffic, so I kept as much distance as possible, and on the roundabout I positioned myself so they could see me in their mirrors. That's just sensible if you ask me, and I have to admit feeling sorry for them trying to navigate the complicated lane changes on that roundabout.

Leaving additional space in queuing traffic also stems from being backed into by a van driver last year, who reversed to talk to someone in the opposite queue without considering anyone behind him. If at the time I'd thought to make a note of his van details, and plenty of them as it was a commercial vehicle, I'd have registered his foolishness with whoever owned the vehicle!

 

[biko]

As a daily cyclist in the Netherlands, today’s posts have been an interesting read. It really seems people in the UK are not used to cyclists which causes most of these concerns. I had the impression that over the last years cycle usage in the UK had increased and thus also awareness but I now get the idea I was wrong.

In Europe, there's not so much consistency (in some countries cars don't even keep to the right), but in the northern states of western Europe, (Benelux, Germany and Austria) it seems that the custom is to mimic the side of road vehicles, i.e. almost universal walking to the right on pavements/footpaths

To be fair the "opposite side so you see the threat" thing is very much a UK thing, I remember doing a Scout activity with some Dutch kids and Leaders years ago and was quite surprised they didn't do that and didn't quite understand why I wanted to.

That’s an interesting point. This is a generational thing in my experience. I was taught at primary school that it doesn’t matter at which side of the road you walk as long as you are on the edge of the road and aware of traffic. My grandparents and my mom always make a fuss of walking on the left (so facing the traffic) because they were taught that. Personally as both a cyclist and pedestrian I prefer people to keep right as it is much easier overtaking someone that goes in the same direction than someone coming closer to you. On some country lanes over here it has been very busy since Covid and about half to three quarters of people were walking on the left. Because of other cyclist from the opposite direction, it means you face pedestrians on the road who come nearer and you cannot do anything else than stop. If everyone would keep right, it is possible to reduce speed and overtake as soon as possible. But probably a very Dutch problem...

In the Netherlands there's a lot more traffic calming, so they're probably more used to vehicular traffic slowly pottering about.

Depends on the road type, minor roads have a lot of calming, major ones don’t.

Overtaking is usually with just 20 to 70 cm I would guess. A main difference with other countries is that it is nearly impossible to find a road with a speed limit higher than 60 km/h (40 mph ish) on which you can cycle. Within built-up areas, on-road cycling happens on roads with a 30 km/h limit (20 mph) and sometimes 50 km/h (30 mph) but then always with some kind of lane. On the 30 and 60 km/h limit roads you’ll find a lot of traffic calming, not necessarily on the others. The goal is then to have a separated cycling path.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Getting knocked over at any speed can kill you poor health or not. Particularly if you got your head on rocks.

How many rocks do you typically find along urban shared-use cycle paths?

 

[Non Multi]

As a daily cyclist in the Netherlands, today’s posts have been an interesting read. It really seems people in the UK are not used to cyclists which causes most of these concerns. I had the impression that over the last years cycle usage in the UK had increased and thus also awareness but I now get the idea I was wrong.

There's certainly been a marked increase in cycling in central London over the last decade. There's also been growth nationally in riding for fitness, weekend group rides, etc. The media in southern England is very London-centric, so it may well be portrayed that Brits are mad keen on cycling now. However, daily 'utility' cycling is still very much a minority thing.

 

[ashkeba]

A shared space path (as in shared between cyclists and pedestrians) doesn't have road traffic on it because it isn't a highway.

I am reasonably sure that the legal definitons of "highway" and "traffic" make that incorrect.

How many rocks do you typically find along urban shared-use cycle paths?

It depends if the council has installed some to slow cyclists down. I have cycled a route in Nottinghamshire with a slalom made by placing large rocks on the path!

 

[Bletchleyite]

There's certainly been a marked increase in cycling in central London over the last decade. There's also been growth nationally in riding for fitness, weekend group rides, etc. The media in southern England is very London-centric, so it may well be portrayed that Brits are mad keen on cycling now. However, daily 'utility' cycling is still very much a minority thing.

One thing of note is that the main growth in London cycling has been commuting, but unlike the Netherlands this has primarily been young men riding aggressively on bikes designed for speed, not Dutch style slow speed sit up and beg type cycling.

 

[JohnMcL7]

I've gone for Zwift and indoor rollers this season to make up for not being able to go group rides or long outdoor rides and find it surprisingly fun so far with races to push you that bit harder than you would normally and being able to do endurance rides without worrying about weather or light conditions. I usually start off keen with the road bike but end up not achieving what I want once I have a few near misses it really puts me off whereas at least on the MTB any accidents are entirely my own fault.

 

[matt_world2004]

How many rocks do you typically find along urban shared-use cycle paths?

Fair few by a canal and that is not to take into account the risk of drowning if someone falls in. There is also metal moorings

 

[Bletchleyite]

Fair few by a canal and that is not to take into account the risk of drowning if someone falls in. There is also metal moorings

A canal towpath is a rather niche example of a shared use path and does require special care and definitely consideration between parties as they are narrow and have dangers both sides.

 

[matt_world2004]

A canal towpath is a rather niche example of a shared use path and does require special care and definitely consideration between parties as they are narrow and have dangers both sides.

Probably one of the more common ones to be honest particularly for leisure walkers

 

[ashkeba]

A canal towpath is a rather niche example of a shared use path and does require special care and definitely consideration between parties as they are narrow and have dangers both sides.

At least in the UK, they are. Many in the Netherlands are wide like mini roads. Why are UK towpaths and canals so small? Is it similar to railways in that they were built early in the technology with a small loading gauge?

 

[PeterC]

How many rocks do you typically find along urban shared-use cycle paths?

There is usually plenty of concrete though which is just as hard.

 

[matt_world2004]

At least in the UK, they are. Many in the Netherlands are wide like mini roads. Why are UK towpaths and canals so small? Is it similar to railways in that they were built early in the technology with a small loading gauge?

Originally built for horses towing boats I imagine they are small to keep horses near the boats.

 

[ashkeba]

Originally built for horses towing boats I imagine they are small to keep horses near the boats.

The Dutch towpaths were also built for horses. They are often called jaagpads after the jager who drove the horse. Were Dutch horses much bigger?

 

[biko]

At least in the UK, they are. Many in the Netherlands are wide like mini roads. Why are UK towpaths and canals so small? Is it similar to railways in that they were built early in the technology with a small loading gauge?

The Dutch towpaths were also built for horses. They are often called jaagpads after the jager who drove the horse. Were Dutch horses much bigger?

I think many towpaths have been upgraded to country lanes over the years and are on a dike as the water level is higher than the surrounding land. So no cuttings, tunnels or aqueducts as you see on British canals. Therefore it is quite easy to widen the paths I imagine.

 

[Bletchleyite]

At least in the UK, they are. Many in the Netherlands are wide like mini roads. Why are UK towpaths and canals so small? Is it similar to railways in that they were built early in the technology with a small loading gauge?

I'd imagine so. To paraphrase the supposed origins of Standard Gauge, they just had to be one horse's backside wide. Leisure use came much later.

 

[TheBigD]

Am I alone in not experiencing the problems many have on this thread?
I cycle around 50-75 miles each week on a mixture of city roads, country roads, shared use paths and cycleways and rarely have issues with pedestrians/do walkers, horse riders etc etc.
In my experience a simple "excuse please" and a corresponding "thank you" seems to work perfectly fine.

 

[peters]

Well I was taught during driving lessons that you leave a cars width when passing cyclists to minimise risk of injury for if they fall over while your overtaking and to not intimidate them. Is that incorrect?

It's what Cycling UK (formerly the CTC) advise and have lobbied for, I think a few police forces have recommended that as a safe distance. The published advice is "Give them plenty of room" (Rule 212).

Sometimes police advice goes against the Highway Code recommendations. The Highway Code recommends against cycling 3 abreast but some police forces advise groups should cycle 3 abreast so motorists can reduce the number of times they need to pull out to overtake. Remember if the Highway Code says MUST or MUST NOT then it's the law, everything else is advise.

I've heard the unofficial 'plan for the cyclist falling off as you are overtaking them' as well but it's not the law to give them 2m of space to allow for that happening and that might be not be possible if cyclists do cycle 2 or 3 abreast. Indeed, the cyclists may crash into each other if they are cycling 2 or 3 abreast and one falls off.

Personally I would say what qualifies as 'plenty of room' depends on the speed of the road and the weather conditions. Overtaking a cyclist doing 8mph at 20mph won't create as much wind as trying to overtake one doing 30mph at 60mph, while a cyclist is less likely to keep on a straight path in certain weather conditions.

In my experience a simple "excuse please" and a corresponding "thank you" seems to work perfectly fine.

If it's a bridleway or shared space then I would have no problem with that if I was on foot and I would try to move to the side if I heard a cyclist approaching before they got too close. What annoys me is when I'm on foot and a cyclist comes up behind me on a normal footpath alongside a road (which is not a shared space) and rings their bell, especially when I have nowhere to move to or the only space I could move into would be a very muddy verge. On one occasion when a cyclist did that I just carried on walking and the cyclist decided he would have to go back on the road where he belonged, where there weren't actually any cars at the time!

 

[ashkeba]

Am I alone in not experiencing the problems many have on this thread?
I cycle around 50-75 miles each week on a mixture of city roads, country roads, shared use paths and cycleways and rarely have issues with pedestrians/do walkers, horse riders etc etc.
In my experience a simple "excuse please" and a corresponding "thank you" seems to work perfectly fine.

No, I rarely have problems with walkers near where I live. Cambridge nearby probably helps. Both walkers and cyclists here seem happy to share, most of the time. I think some places in the UK are much worse, with aggressive both

Motorists, not so much good at sharing! Sone days like today, many of them seem just awful, passing with 0.3m gap.

 

[JohnMcL7]

I very rarely have issues with walkers and frequently meet other people when cycling on trails on the mountain bike. I found some people didn't like the bell so I don't use one instead I just call out I'm coming and say thanks which I find works well.

 

[telstarbox]

I got beeped at by a van for using a mile of dual carriageway last weekend. Not the most tranquil road but I was allowed to be there!

 

[Techniquest]

@TheBigD I have to agree with you, a thank you after passing by should be automatic. If someone's moved out of their way for me, then showing gratitude is just common sense.

As for drivers cutting it close, I was on the A4103 yesterday (Worcester to Hereford) between Shucknall and Hereford. Multiple drivers overtook in stupid places, such as sharp bends with a junction on them, and one came within a couple of inches of smashing into oncoming traffic. They'd started overtaking then really had to floor it to get around and back over, when the more sensible option would have been to pull back in behind and wait. The amount of black fumes that came out of their exhaust as they faced by, and this was only a March 2016 plate vehicle, not some clapped-out car.

That was certainly one of those times when I received a free cardiac test! Definitely clenched my handlebar grips quite a bit...