Cyclists - your experiences on the road

[Mark24]

Riding single file on a standard road is inconsiderate to other road users since it spaces the bike out far more and since cars should be leaving a 1.5m gap when overtaking, riding two abreast make the group much smaller and easier to overtake:

Single track is different because vehicles can't get by otherwise but in those circumstances then riders should collapse to single file.

Since most of what you've written is based on false misconceptions I'd recommend giving group rides a go yourself, any I've ridden with are considerate to other road users and don't hold up cars plus they're good for general fitness since pace is a lot more consistent than on your own.

For that to work, 2 cyclists side by side would have to be at least 1.5m inside the white line, otherwise they’d technically be impassable from both directions.
I’m not sure our roads are generally wide enough for that.
I love cycling, but try and be as flexible as possible to the road I’m on.
I don’t what my last words to be: “But it was MY right of way”

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

Very often it is best not to overtake, wait until there is really plenty of room

Cycling is great in theory
But as @Techniquest describes, on the road one could be wiped out, killed, permanently disabled by some idiot not looking for a moment, reaching for ciggies or phone

'accidental' deaths and injuries have increased in some places during lockdown despite much less traffic. One hopes the cops try enforcing traffic law as soon as they have spare capacity. Really, it would make sense to start now

 

[83A]

I have been a keen mountain biker trail cyclist for years. My aim on a day out is to actually avoid as many tarmac roads as possible and only use bridalways, byways and single tracks.

I do have a road bike for the occasional commute on the train to London but that hasn’t seen much use lately!

 

[PeterC]

Very often it is best not to overtake, wait until there is really plenty of room

Cycling is great in theory
But as @Techniquest describes, on the road one could be wiped out, killed, permanently disabled by some idiot not looking for a moment, reaching for ciggies or phone

'accidental' deaths and injuries have increased in some places during lockdown despite much less traffic. One hopes the cops try enforcing traffic law as soon as they have spare capacity. Really, it would make sense to start now

I am always careful overtaking cyclists. Their steering can be very erratic when using both hands to send a text.

 

[KeithMcC]

Having been a keen road/touring cyclist for years I have more or less given it up recently. Too many near misses on busy country roads.

 

[AndrewE]

Having been a keen road/touring cyclist for years I have more or less given it up recently. Too many near misses on busy country roads.

which is why my wife won't cycle much any more. Luckily our convenience shop/budget supermarket has just relocated to an out-of-town site which we can get to by cycle paths all the way. To go the slightly longer distance into town (mostly no cycle paths) she walks in and gets the bus back. I am not prepared to be intimidated off the road so I still cycle and claim my lane.
I have the absolute right to use the road, the motorists can only use it as long as they keep their licenses! Lots of them shouldn't have one.
Motorists should read this https://www.cyclinguk.org/campaign/toocloseforcomfort
or just watch this:

Too Close For Comfort was inspired by the pioneering work of West Midlands Police, who used plain clothes officers on bikes to identify dangerous passes. The offending drivers were offered education on how to pass cyclists safely and – in the most serious cases – prosecuted for careless driving. The operation was a huge success, and the number of collisions involving the death or serious injury of cyclist dropped by 20% in the first year.

 

[Techniquest]

I am always careful overtaking cyclists. Their steering can be very erratic when using both hands to send a text.

You make it sound like all cyclists don't ride responsibly... I would hope you are not tarring us all with the same brush, based on some rare personal experience of one or two riders doing so...

I'll put my hands up to it, I do wobble/weave a bit on the road sometimes. There's not a great deal of choice given the condition of the surface in many places, and it's getting worse. I do not weave or whatever because I'm texting, indeed apart from the odd casual rider who can barely ride at all texting/chatting on the phone, I have never seen anyone texting while riding. Kudos to those who can, if they can also pay enough attention to what they're doing.

If it's not obvious, I resent your implication that cyclists aren't responsible on the roads!

Anyway, on a much happier note, I feel a need to share a photo from October 2020's cycle tour:



This was on the west side of the Forth Road Bridge, a couple of hours after arriving in Edinburgh off the sleeper. I don't think I've discussed that cycle/train tour on here, but it was certainly an experience!

Also worth noting the bike in the photo, an Apollo Phaze from Halfords (yes yes I've heard all the stuff about buying from Halfords since, let's not go there) has been retired since the end of 2020. It was going to be sold as a spares donor, but the shed it's in is falling apart and the rust is setting. So it'll go to a scrap dealer at some point soon, once lockdown ends and I can find someone willing to move it for me.

There's another photo I'd like to share from one of my adventures, one that ended up with me riding from Hereford to Worcester via Bromyard and many country roads:



I want to say this was taken at Crews Hill, and just look at the amazing scenery There was another photo also starring the mountain bike, but the forum declares that photo too large. Scenes like this, and it has to be said I don't stop very often to take photos, are what make cycling so amazing.

 

[telstarbox]

Unless you really need the cash, just leave it unlocked in town and someone will take it!

 

[Techniquest]

Unless you really need the cash, just leave it unlocked in town and someone will take it!

That's very true! Not bothered about the cash, gosh no, it wouldn't be worth much anyway. Good solid frame, that's for sure, so I can't complain about the quality of the work done in Turkey. The quality of the work done in this country though....

 

[AndrewE]

You make it sound like all cyclists don't ride responsibly... I would hope you are not tarring us all with the same brush, based on some rare personal experience of one or two riders doing so...

I'll put my hands up to it, I do wobble/weave a bit on the road sometimes. There's not a great deal of choice given the condition of the surface in many places, and it's getting worse. I do not weave or whatever because I'm texting, indeed apart from the odd casual rider who can barely ride at all texting/chatting on the phone, I have never seen anyone texting while riding. Kudos to those who can, if they can also pay enough attention to what they're doing.

If it's not obvious, I resent your implication that cyclists aren't responsible on the roads!

When I was learning to drive (in about 1970) my instructor would say "the cyclist is entitled to his wobble!"
It is still true.

 

[JohnMcL7]

For that to work, 2 cyclists side by side would have to be at least 1.5m inside the white line, otherwise they’d technically be impassable from both directions.
I’m not sure our roads are generally wide enough for that.
I love cycling, but try and be as flexible as possible to the road I’m on.
I don’t what my last words to be: “But it was MY right of way”

It's not a case of being a right of way or anything like that, it's safer to ride two abreast and it's more considerate towards drivers as well even though they may not realise it. If you ride single file in a large group you'll form a long single line which is difficult for cars to overtake so what can happen is (this is speaking from experience) cars will overtake when there's traffic going the other way and leave no room and then if the road narrows or something larger comes the other way, they'll move back and force the cyclists at that point off the road. By riding two abreast it takes up far less room and cars can only overtake when the other lane is empty, since less space is taken up by bikes it's easier to leave spaces for cars to move into between the groups plus the group is more easily visible as well.

Even before the pandemic I'd long stopped group road bike rides because I don't like the attitude but I do miss being able to ride on the roads more safely and much faster as well. It's a shame to see the number of posts here and other places with people who have stopped or reduced riding because of the risk of being on the road but it's entirely understandable. I have one of the Garmin Varia rear facing radar systems which I find a huge help but even then it can do only do so much.

However it gives me a lot of enjoyment and goes very well with trains, this was a shot with the bike down to see some visting 37's:

A few weeks ago when the snow came down just after midnight I couldn't resist hoping onto the bike and ploughing through the darkness on the untouched snow, it's quite an amazing feeling@

 

[Non Multi]

Also worth noting the bike in the photo, an Apollo Phaze from Halfords (yes yes I've heard all the stuff about buying from Halfords since, let's not go there) has been retired since the end of 2020. It was going to be sold as a spares donor, but the shed it's in is falling apart and the rust is setting. So it'll go to a scrap dealer at some point soon, once lockdown ends and I can find someone willing to move it for me.

Fit semi-slick tyres on it and keep it as a station and shopping bike. If it gets stolen, it will be 100% less awful than losing the new bike.

Halfords do actually sell decent kit, I'd happily own a Carrera Gryphon or a Voodoo Marasa, both are good utility hybrid bikes.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The Carrera and Boardman branded kit Halfords do is generally good, I've had Carrera mountain bikes (road-ised* by me) and hybrids before and they were decent for the price. Apollo is their budget brand so uses the cheapest components, really those are in the same market as supermarket cheapo specials.

* Well, Redway-ised. Road bikes aren't a good fit for "internal" MK use, the Redway surfaces aren't really in good enough condition for skinny tyres, and riding on the roads can be terrifying. Decent hybrids (think Dutch style but with derailleur gears) with a wide gear range for the hills are ideal, my present utility bike is one of the Decathlon B-Twin hybrids which is pretty decent for the price. I did for a bit ride a hub geared Batavus of some kind but the gear range was too narrow for it to be enjoyable as actual Dutch bikes are designed for the flat.

 

[Jozhua]

I got an Apollo Phaze last year.
It's fine (apart from the gears)

Well, it was fine, until I got hit twice. The first time I got it repaired by Halfords, the second time they straight up refused as the back wheel was bent.

I've managed to repair it just enough that it works, brought a second hand back wheel off Gumtree

Probably done another couple hundred miles on that, so! It works I guess.

I have been a keen mountain biker trail cyclist for years. My aim on a day out is to actually avoid as many tarmac roads as possible and only use bridalways, byways and single tracks.

I do have a road bike for the occasional commute on the train to London but that hasn’t seen much use lately!

Yeah, honestly, this is how I feel too.

I will say, while bike infrastructure is a bit of a joke in Manchester, there is some really good stuff in places. Namely Oxford Road. Proper segregated bike lanes most of the way down, with the road alongside it closed to all traffic but buses.

One thing often missed with biking infrastructure is that the biggest issue is typically junctions. I've never had an issue on straight roads. Most people pass at enough of a distance.

The thing is - most bike lanes are painted on for these areas, then just dissappear at intersections.

Having been a keen road/touring cyclist for years I have more or less given it up recently. Too many near misses on busy country roads.

Eeek, can relate.

When I was learning to drive (in about 1970) my instructor would say "the cyclist is entitled to his wobble!"
It is still true.

You know, I like this kind of attitude!

It's just having understanding for other people and being aware of them. Unfortunately, that is lost on many drivers today.

 

[ashkeba]

I did for a bit ride a hub geared Batavus of some kind but the gear range was too narrow for it to be enjoyable as actual Dutch bikes are designed for the flat.

Go to Limburg and say that! I think your bike was just geared too high. Lots are as sold new. I think they do it to sell more replacement cogs.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Go to Limburg and say that! I think your bike was just geared too high. Lots are as sold new. I think they do it to sell more replacement cogs.

No, I actually did swap the "outer cog" on the hub gear (forget what the name for it is) for a much larger one so as to lower the gearing, but by doing that the highest gear was then too low. Derailleur gears typically offer a much wider range so are more suitable for hilly places.

I know not all of NL is flat as a pancake, but MK is really very hilly, particularly because of the way the Redways duck under the roads (the Dutch have crossings on the level instead, but that does mean waiting at lights).

 

[biko]

I know not all of NL is flat as a pancake, but MK is really very hilly, particularly because of the way the Redways duck under the roads (the Dutch have crossings on the level instead, but that does mean waiting at lights).

While the country is mostly flat, the cycle paths are not. Many cities are full of tunnels under main roads for cyclists, so that's not true anymore. If I cycle from my home to the city centre here, I pass the ring road and the railway through two tunnels dedicated for cyclists and then I pass just one intersection with traffic lights on the level. But of course, the rest of the route is flat as a pancake so you can accelerate going down into the tunnel and going up, it's easy. I have gears, but I never need to use them.

I had a quick look at the redways in Milton Keynes and it looks quite Dutch to me except that it is meant as shared space while over here cycling paths are meant for cycling which pedestrians can only use if there is no pavement. But this again clearly what makes cycling less attractive in the UK: there is no dedicated space, it is too often shared with pedestrians or a small lane on a main road. Add a more hilly landscape and it is much more difficult to get people on the bike.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes, I think the Redways are as close as you get to the Dutch system in the UK, and as such they do promote utility cycling quite well. Cycling to the stations to commute is certainly popular, with large racks visible outside. They are indeed shared, but it works reasonably well most of the time, probably because MK is very low-density and thus they tend not to be that busy.

There are places on the Redways where there is a separate footpath, but they tend not to be used as such because it's not very common.

The other place I've seen it is West Lancashire where a number of the main roads have a Dutch style arrangement, e.g. the main road from Ormskirk to Southport:

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.com

or the A59:

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.com

As I grew up in that area I was surprised to find that these were generally not available elsewhere. West Lancashire, of course, is flat as the proverbial pancake other than the hill on which Aughton (Ormskirk) sits, and has a market-garden economy similar to parts of the Netherlands.

Both of the arrangements here aren't new (unlike in most parts of the UK), they have been in place since the 1980s or earlier.

One key difference in the UK is that cyclists do not generally have priority across junctions, which is one reason some cyclists prefer not to use them and to ride on the road. It would be good to get that priority, but the danger is that drivers used to having priority may ignore it and thus cause more accidents.

 

[galwhv69]

Not the best cyclist (Only got a bike last year!), and as I live in suburban London, don't really cycle outside of it. Usually my ride (don't often have hours and hours to spare) involves going down to Chiswick Bridge, before joining onto the Thames Path, and cycling up by the Thames through Hammersmith Bridge to Putney Bridge, then taking a few moments to get a sip of water at the bus stands at Putney Bridge, (also to admire Abellio's Dennis Dart 8037 as a meal relief bus for drivers ) before either going back the way I came or taking a ride through Putney and Barnes on the south side of the river. Another route I also do if I have more time is to go straight to Putney Bridge, before using the back roads to get to Fulham/Chelsea, then using the cycle lanes up to South Kensington, through Hyde Park and all the way down Oxford Street, Theobalds Road & Clerkenwell Road to Old Street before turning around by going through Pentonville & Marylebone, back down through Hyde Park, South Kensington and through Fulham.

Recommend going on this cycle, which I recently did. A nice route by going straight up through Putney Bridge & Fulham/Chelsea to South Kensington before going down West Cromwell Road to Hammersmith (partially on road and partially on pavement which I think was designated for cyclists as well anyways?), then down the Thames Path to Chiswick Bridge, along the cycle lane by Lower Richmond Road to Richmond, down Petersham Road/Richmond Road to Kingston, up Coombe Lane to just past the A3, then up Copse Hill to Wimbledon Common, through Wimbledon Common & Putney Heath home. Good mix of residential & main roads as well as some cycle lanes/routes and parks. 26 miles which I think was fairly good, considering I'm still new to it and my bike is stuck in 2nd gear (lol, haven't had the time to go to Halfords and get it fixed yet ; really need to do so soon as I broke down on a blind corner on a gradient yesterday! Luckily the car behind was slowing down to turn anyways so nasty incident avoided, phew!)

Few things that annoy me
-No matter how hard you indicate turning right with plenty of time, no car drivers seem to realise you're there until the very last moment.
-People being oblivious that they are walking on a cycle route when the pedestrian path is clear
-Car drivers not giving enough room whilst overtaking
-Others cycling way too fast on a cycle path (such as right next to the river) , especially if it's a time when lots of walkers are around, so they swerve around them and nearly into you on the other side

Though at the same time it is also positive
-Beautiful views, especially where some may not be reachable by car/bus etc.
-Good for the environment
-Healthy and relaxing
-On a bike, it's much easier to change plans to go after specific trains/buses rather than in a car or on a bus

 

[biko]

Yes, I think the Redways are as close as you get to the Dutch system in the UK, and as such they do promote utility cycling quite well. Cycling to the stations to commute is certainly popular, with large racks visible outside. They are indeed shared, but it works reasonably well most of the time, probably because MK is very low-density and thus they tend not to be that busy.

There are places on the Redways where there is a separate footpath, but they tend not to be used as such because it's not very common.

The other place I've seen it is West Lancashire where a number of the main roads have a Dutch style arrangement, e.g. the main road from Ormskirk to Southport:

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.com

or the A59:

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.com

As I grew up in that area I was surprised to find that these were generally not available elsewhere. West Lancashire, of course, is flat as the proverbial pancake other than the hill on which Aughton (Ormskirk) sits, and has a market-garden economy similar to parts of the Netherlands.

Both of the arrangements here aren't new (unlike in most parts of the UK), they have been in place since the 1980s or earlier.

One key difference in the UK is that cyclists do not generally have priority across junctions, which is one reason some cyclists prefer not to use them and to ride on the road. It would be good to get that priority, but the danger is that drivers used to having priority may ignore it and thus cause more accidents.

Good to see that there is at least a place in the UK where cycling to the station is popular, cycling and the railway can be a very good combination.

Those examples indeed look very Dutch (and safe) to me. I didn't expect examples so close to Dutch cycle paths to be honest! I also immediately noticed that cyclists don't have priority which would be Dutch practice in most cases. With respect to changing that, I think it is a chicken-and-egg story. It is unsafe because drivers are not used to them, so it won't be changed, but it also means drivers never get used to situations where cyclists have priority.

 

[Techniquest]

Yesterday the weather was incredibly nice, and after much coffee and food, following a crazy weekend at work I finally managed to encourage the tiredness to go away and get out in the sunshine. I'm extremely glad I did, as the rural ride not only covered lots of gaps on my map but it made me feel so much better physically and mentally.

So much so I was in a much better mood today at work, a good long cycle ride usually helps me deal with whatever issues are going on at the time. I've also decided when I try for my first ever Gran Fondo (100km ride) that I should try to make it an event that not only benefits me, but also others. Turning it into a fundraising event could be doable, I need to look into that even if it's just a small amount.

Below are a few photos from yesterday's ride, I didn't stop for many as the focus was on the ride not photography:


At the junction with the B4352 at Moccas, having just arrived from Hereford via Clehonger, Madley, Lulham and Preston-on-Wye


At the same junction, viewed from the memorial, this scene's backdrop features the hills around the Golden Valley. It's a beautiful part of Herefordshire, certainly one I'd recommend considering to fellow cyclists as part of a tour.



This is the scene outside Madley Church, taken from outside the local shop. The bike is my Ridgeback Speed, love it! Much more suited to country road riding than my Apollo Phaze was!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Good to see someone else who like me prefers straight bars to drops. I can never get properly comfortable on drops.

 

[py_megapixel]

Good to see someone else who like me prefers straight bars to drops. I can never get properly comfortable on drops.

Same here - I've not dried drop bars very much at all but I've not liked them, and being perfectly happy with straights I've never felt a need to investigate changing in more detail

 

[bramling]

Having been a keen road/touring cyclist for years I have more or less given it up recently. Too many near misses on busy country roads.

Must admit I’ve largely given up leisure cycling. Too much of an increase in traffic levels and poor driving round here, and in particular weekends have become manic since things like Sunday opening became a big thing and the growth of stuff like retail parks.

Too many near misses, it wasn’t enjoyable any more, and also the unpleasant fumes particularly from diesel vehicles, vans and buses.

 

[Techniquest]

Good to see someone else who like me prefers straight bars to drops. I can never get properly comfortable on drops.

Same here - I've not dried drop bars very much at all but I've not liked them, and being perfectly happy with straights I've never felt a need to investigate changing in more detail

For a leisure rider, I don't see the need for drops. I'd not be able to get comfortable enough using drops anyway, I haven't tried them but I don't like the idea of such a ride, never mind actually doing it!

Longer lasting brakes would be nice though, had to get both pairs changed recently after they wore out. In fairness, they'd been used on a lot of rides in January in the ultra-cold weather, and those rides weren't all that short (averaged over 20 miles a day for almost all of January). So it was probably inevitable they'd prematurely wear. No matter, both pairs including fitting were £29 so it's not like they were super expensive

 

[duncombec]

I had my own pretty enjoyable ride on Saturday - 24.3 miles over the fairly undulating terrain that is common in this part of the world (not forgetting the steep uptick of a hill leading to my front door... a random online calculator tells me 69ft in 0.1 miles is a 13% gradient). It was quite surprising when I google maps-ed the distance this morning!

Mostly on and around local roads - largely courteous drivers, with lots of thanking if I stopped through housing estates or the like. Notably little sign of impatience or close overtaking on one out-and-back stretch of road which despite being a B-road has double-white lines, high hedges and very few side-roads. Only one driver was a bit problematic on that section, and rather than being too close, he was hanging a long way back... so he could sweep past at speed (but at good distance from me) on a straight stretch of road leaving the cars he'd accumulated behind him in his wake... how very... adult. I was also expecting a bit of impatience when trying to pull out of one side-road in particular that is terrible even for cars, as the main (single-carriageway) road it pulls onto is busy, on a hill, and although there are traffic lights at intervals, they are too far away on both sides to be of much help.

No pedestrians terrorised (by bell or otherwise), well-behaved car drivers... it was really quite a pleasant morning (were it not for the wind that always seemed to be a headwind whenever I went uphill, regardless of the direction I was pointing in at the time)

Also not a fan of the drop handlebars here either - although I tried them in the shop, I found the angle to be quite concerning... I'd rather look at the traffic and miss the potholes than look at the potholes and miss the cars!

 

[telstarbox]

Drops shouldn't affect your visibility but they do allow you to change your arm and hand position during a ride which can be more comfortable.

 

[JohnMcL7]

Drops shouldn't affect your visibility but they do allow you to change your arm and hand position during a ride which can be more comfortable.

That's exactly why I use them, I was against the idea initially but once I became used to them I found them much better for long rides since I can adjust my position. A flat bar hybrid was redundant since the road bikes can do short trips fine as well so I only keep the flat bars for off road riding.

 

[Bikeman78]

Traffic lights which stay green for the major road, unless a vehicle is waiting on the minor road are a nightmare for cyclists. They can't detect a cyclist meaning the only legal options you have are to remain there until a vehicle appears behind you or get off and push your bike around the corner, then remount a la the Mr Bean sketch where he saw the cyclist do that to avoid a red light and then did the same with his Mini! Many instead mount the pavement or cycle through red light and then treat the junction as a junction without traffic lights, neither of which are technically legal even if the second option does seem sensible. The exception being if the pavement has a pedestrian/bike shared space sign.

They seem to work okay for bikes in Cardiff. There is one set where the turn right phase doesn't work for bikes. For the 1400 shift change there are always plenty of vehicles about so it not a problem. Early morning and late at night I just go when there's a gap.

 

[TechDan2002]

Also worth noting the bike in the photo, an Apollo Phaze from Halfords (yes yes I've heard all the stuff about buying from Halfords since, let's not go there) has been retired since the end of 2020. It was going to be sold as a spares donor, but the shed it's in is falling apart and the rust is setting. So it'll go to a scrap dealer at some point soon, once lockdown ends and I can find someone willing to move it for me.

Can remember when I was much younger an Apollo Phaze was luxury to me! The first bike I properly owned was a £99 Apollo Slant that lasted me two years between the ages of 10 and 12. It came with plastic brake levers which snapped whilst I was going down some steps almost sending me into a brick wall and a sloppy 3x6 drivetrain (24-32-42 front, 14-28 rear so not that many usable gears) Pictured below 10 year old me with it in February 2013:


After riding that well beyond its serviceable life I was gifted a nearly new 2013 model Scott Voltage YZ 10 for Christmas 2014. I still own and ride it today having overhauled it last year with a new 1x11 (32 front, 11-46 rear) drivetrain and replacement rear hydraulic disc brake after a failed attempt at a brake bleed.


It’s proven to be a great bike for me seeing me right through my teenage years, I even rode a century around Cornwall visiting The Lizard and Lands End on it the day after summer solstice 2019 after finishing my GCSEs to see how far I could ride with 17 hours daylight to play with. The aim at a push was 100 miles but I exceeded that! Was very pleased with myself given I’d done no training for it, although it did render me a bit immobile for a couple of days afterwards lol


On the subject of the thread, of course the vast majority of other road users are considerate and give a reasonable amount of space when passing. My issues have mostly occurred at roundabouts where I’ve been beeped at and over/undertaken on the roundabout for taking the correct lane in the primary position to negotiate the junction (I’m aware this is against advice in the Highway Code, but I’d much rather use the correct lane at a roundabout than go along the outside edge and be cut up/knocked off by a car exiting) and I had a near miss cycling down through my local town where a car parked at the side of the road pulled out causing me to slam my brakes on at 25mph stopping within touching distance of the back of her car!