Cyclists - your experiences on the road

[Bald Rick]

Could you clarify what you mean by the bold?
I assume you mean without assistance when you're pedalling, in which case I think you're talking at cross-purposes. I believe @cactustwirly is talking about the 'twist-and-go' e-bikes, which don't require pedalling and have a throttle. Although these latter ones have to go through Type Approval and should be limited to 25km/h as you say, I've seen far too many people on ebikes that are clearly going faster than the limit where the rider isn't doing any pedalling.

I mean that to be classed as an ebike:

1) it must have pedals that can be used to propel the bike
2) it has an electric motor that can be ised to assist the rider, ie make pedalling easier for a given speed
3) some if not all of these bikes can be used without pedalling.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I mean that to be classed as an ebike:

1) it must have pedals that can be used to propel the bike
2) it has an electric motor that can be ised to assist the rider, ie make pedalling easier for a given speed
3) some if not all of these bikes can be used without pedalling.

If it can be used without pedalling (unless just coasting downhill with no assistance as per a normal bike) it is not an e-bike but an electric motorcycle requiring tax, insurance and a helmet. E-bikes are more properly known as "electrically assisted pedal cycles". The pedals have to be moving in order for the electric assistance to kick in.

Like illegal e-scooters, these illegal electric motorcycles (no type approval) do exist, but they're not meant to.

 

[E27007]

I mean that to be classed as an ebike:

1) it must have pedals that can be used to propel the bike
2) it has an electric motor that can be ised to assist the rider, ie make pedalling easier for a given speed
3) some if not all of these bikes can be used without pedalling.

In addition i think there is a regulation for top speed, the electrical assistance must deactivate above a certain speed, above which the machine operates as an ordinary bicycle

 

[Magdalia]

I was going to start a new thread but as this one seems to cover a variety of topics about cycling I thought I would post my questions here.

I have not been on a bike since I was in my teens and I am now 65! When I was about 11 years old I had a new Raleigh RSW 16, and although I rode it around my home area regularly throughout my teens, I didn’t take it with me to college when I was 18, and never used it again. My mum then used it until it eventually wore out.

Since I was fortunate to be able to retire early from work 8 years ago I have tried to go in on at least one good walk of between 5 and 8 miles each week and most of my now regular short breaks away in the U.K. usually involve lots of walking. Although many of my walks take me along footpaths over fields I also regularly walk along trails, especially old railways, which have been developed as well surfaced cycle trails. Seeing so many people cycling has made me begin to consider whether I should consider investing in a bike which would allow me to travel longer distances along these trails and quiet country lanes than I am able to cover walking. Last week I spent a few days in South Yorkshire and walked a few nice stretches of the Trans Pennine Trail in the Don and Dearne Valleys. Seeing so many people cycling along this trail really made me think more seriously about it.

At the moment I am seriously thinking about investing in a folding e-bike. Although I live in a fairly rural area with some good cycle trails and quiet lanes close by, the main road through my village is a busy, winding, and in places, narrow B road which I would not want to cycle along at any time of day. I therefore want a bike that I could easily put in the boot of my small car or even take on the bus to reach quieter safer locations with less traffic. This would also fit in with taking the bike with me on holidays.

Most of the cycling I would plan to do would be on reasonably well surfaced cycle trails and quiet lanes. I do live fairly close to the Derbyshire Peak District which is quite hilly but I will not be cycling on rough mountain tracks! I’ve looked at a number of folding e-bikes, non of them cheap, but the one that I like the best, the Go Cycle G4 is extremely expensive at almost £4000 or even more for the G4i. Hopefully it will be something that I will get a good few years of enjoyment from so I am willing to pay that price if that is the right e-bike for me for the type of leisurely cycling I will want to do.

Does anyone have any advice?

I have ridden an ebike for 2 years now. To clear up some misunderstandings, it does not work without pedalling, and the motor cuts out at 25kmh/15mph.

An ebike does not handle the same as a pedal bike. The motor and battery mean that an ebike is much heavier. For this reason an ebike usually has disc brakes. The weight also makes it awkward for lifting on and off of trains. When the motor cuts out I rarely go much higher than 25kmh/15mph because the weight of the bike makes it too difficult, except when assisted by wind or gravity.

I use the ebike because my body needs help from the motor on hills and bridges, it increases my range, and I can carry more stuff.

I have never ridden a folding bike, but they don't look very attractive for the sort of use you have in mind. And an expensive bit of kit that can easily be carried away is going to have security issues.

Given that you can walk 8 miles in the hills I think that you probably don't need an ebike now. What you need is a good light pedal bike with lots of gears so that you can get up hills. Given that you clearly have a big budget you can probably get a decent full size pedal bike and a decent folding pedal bike for less than what you are thinking of spending on the folding ebike.

 

[BingMan]

If it can be used without pedalling (unless just coasting downhill with no assistance as per a normal bike) it is not an e-bike but an electric motorcycle requiring tax, insurance and a helmet. E-bikes are more properly known as "electrically assisted pedal cycles". The pedals have to be moving in order for the electric assistance to kick in.

Like illegal e-scooters, these illegal electric motorcycles (no type approval) do exist, but they're not meant to.

The regulations stated apply to electrically assisted bicycles used on public roads not when in use off road, so a manufacturer can fit T&G and specify that it can only be used off-road

There are grandfather rights on twist and go since the legislation banning it is fairly recent.

My knees can't handle fixed, unfortunately. Great if you can though!

Going down steep hills is problem with fixed.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The regulations stated apply to electrically assisted bicycles used on public roads not when in use off road, so a manufacturer can fit T&G and specify that it can only be used off-road

There are grandfather rights on twist and go since the legislation banning it is fairly recent.

Interesting that it was fairly recently banned, as really there's no good reason for it not to be allowed. If pedalling a cycle at 25km/h is safe, then so is running one electrically - turning the pedals is more of a loophole than something that actually makes sense. I suppose that's where the Dutch Bromfietsen come in.

 

[BingMan]

One thing I do not fancy: complicated derailment gears.

Derailleur gears are not complicated and modern ones are very reliable. Not being able to change gear when stationary is their man drawback

Consider whether you might prefer a rigid bike and a bike rack for your car (though generally it's fairly easy to pop the wheels off to put it in the boot of even a small car, most bikes have quick release wheels these days). Folders are a great idea but are always a massive compromise, and a folding e-bike will be very heavy and awkward to carry.

It can be quite a challenge to remove an e-bike wheel which has a motor in the hub.
I ahve a non electric folding Brompton and the ability to take it on a bus is invaluable

It might be preferable to have cycling lessons to improve your confidence on busy roads than faffing about taking one on the bus, while a rigid bike can be taken on a train.

And definitely take a test ride. You may be asked to make a deposit so you can't nick off with it, depending on the dealer, which is fair enough as they can't go with you unlike when test driving a car.

For a test ride most dealers want your credit card details rather than money

Interesting that it was fairly recently banned, as really there's no good reason for it not to be allowed. If pedalling a cycle at 25km/h is safe, then so is running one electrically - turning the pedals is more of a loophole than something that actually makes sense. I suppose that's where the Dutch Bromfietsen come in.

The main point of twist and go is for doing hill starts. Since assistance requires you to be pedalling it can be hard to get any power when the hill is too steep for you to pedal.
Oner of my cranks fell of on my ride yesterday and the T&G enbled me to tide back home

 

[adamedwards]

I find it fascinating that there is a need for speed regulators in ebikes and escooters, but not cars which kill and injure most people. Does show the lobbying power of the motor industry. It should be impossible to drive any vehicle at over the speed limit on any road now, as the technology is there to do it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It should be impossible to drive any vehicle at over the speed limit on any road now, as the technology is there to do it.

It's not quite there, as any user of a satnav will confirm when a "overspeed - 30" flashes up due to a parallel road when driving along a motorway. And a vehicle automatically braking hard to 30 for no reason on a motorway would cause accidents - far more accidents than someone doing 80 would.

Give it 5-10 years I'd say.

But in any case, smart motorways have near done away with speeding on motorways* and will eventually cover the whole network, while in 20s and 30s it's better to design the road so people can't really exceed the limit by way of strategically positioned parking, table junctions etc.

* You can be going along at an indicated 70 and someone overtake you, but that's because your speedo is reading over and you're actually doing about 65.

 

[JamesT]

I find it fascinating that there is a need for speed regulators in ebikes and escooters, but not cars which kill and injure most people. Does show the lobbying power of the motor industry. It should be impossible to drive any vehicle at over the speed limit on any road now, as the technology is there to do it.

I think it's more that e-bikes and e-scooters are new, so there's the opportunity to do things differently. Fitting a speed regulator to an e-bike is a tradeoff, restricted speed in return for not having to follow the rules of a motorbike/moped.
The technology is most certainly not there to restrict vehicles to the limit for that road. GPS isn't accurate enough to place you on the correct road, camera systems can also be fooled by failing to read signs or reading systems for a different road.

 

[341o2]

If it can be used without pedalling (unless just coasting downhill with no assistance as per a normal bike) it is not an e-bike but an electric motorcycle requiring tax, insurance and a helmet. E-bikes are more properly known as "electrically assisted pedal cycles". The pedals have to be moving in order for the electric assistance to kick in.

Like illegal e-scooters, these illegal electric motorcycles (no type approval) do exist, but they're not meant to.

They are sold on the understanding that they are only to be used on private land and not the public highway. The same goes for private escooters and mini motos

 

[ABB125]

They are sold on the understanding that they are only to be used on private land and not the public highway. The same goes for private escooters and mini motos

It appears that private e-scooter users think they own the road (or pavement) and have exclusive use of it...

(Or am I not allowed to say that because it only applies to car drivers? )

 

[Bald Rick]

I find it fascinating that there is a need for speed regulators in ebikes and escooters, but not cars which kill and injure most people. Does show the lobbying power of the motor industry. It should be impossible to drive any vehicle at over the speed limit on any road now, as the technology is there to do it.

well, for the last 5 weeks, all newly launched new cars for sale in the EU and UK have to have speed limiters fitted.

 

[alxndr]

It can be quite a challenge to remove an e-bike wheel which has a motor in the hub.

Its tricky to remove the wheel containing the motor (if using a hub mounted variety), but the other wheel should be quick and simple to remove, especially if it’s the front.

I can get myself, my partner, their full sized e-bike, and two rucksacks+shopping in my 3 door Mini just by removing the front wheel.

 

[BingMan]

Its tricky to remove the wheel containing the motor (if using a hub mounted variety), but the other wheel should be quick and simple to remove, especially if it’s the front.

I can get myself, my partner, their full sized e-bike, and two rucksacks+shopping in my 3 door Mini just by removing the front wheel.

A mini with only three wheels must be a nightmare to drive

Interesting that it was fairly recently banned, as really there's no good reason for it not to be allowed. If pedalling a cycle at 25km/h is safe, then so is running one electrically - turning the pedals is more of a loophole than something that actually makes sense. I suppose that's where the Dutch Bromfietsen come in.

If e-bikes didn't have that requirement how could you distinguish an e-bike from a moped.whemdeciding which laws to apply?

 

[Bletchleyite]

A mini with only three wheels must be a nightmare to drive

Ever watched "The Love Bug" - can be done!

(Yes, I know, different very small classic car!)

 

[johncrossley]

Are electric bike batteries more durable nowadays? A friend bought one about 10 years ago and the battery range was almost gone within two or three years, meaning you had to spend £100s on a new battery.

 

[adamedwards]

EbikeA mini with only three wheels must be a nightmare to drive

If e-bikes didn't have that requirement how could you distinguish an e-bike from a moped.whemdeciding which laws to apply?

A mini with only three wheels must be a nightmare to drive


If e-bikes didn't have that requirement how could you distinguish an e-bike from a moped.whemdeciding which laws to apply?

Ebikes have to have pedals and cannot work without pedalling. A scooter with a battery is an e motorbike so not legal as no tax, numberplatd etc. The law need updating.

 

[brad465]

A number of paper's tomorrow have this sort of story on the front of it:

Tomorrow's Papers Today - UK Front Pages - Latest Newspaper Headlines

All of UK's Tomorrow's Front Pages ✅ Updated Daily between 7PM - 11pm ✅ The Mail, Express, Times, Guardian and many more Proudly supporting #buyapaper

www.tomorrowspapers.co.uk

This strikes me as being a dead cat policy, and at the very least is unworkable for a number of reasons, not least the cycle hire scheme in London that a certain individual by the name of Boris Johnson claims credit would have to be scrapped to fix bikes to owners, among multiple other hire schemes.

 

[Jonny]

A number of paper's tomorrow have this sort of story on the front of it:

Tomorrow's Papers Today - UK Front Pages - Latest Newspaper Headlines

All of UK's Tomorrow's Front Pages ✅ Updated Daily between 7PM - 11pm ✅ The Mail, Express, Times, Guardian and many more Proudly supporting #buyapaper

www.tomorrowspapers.co.uk

This strikes me as being a dead cat policy, and at the very least is unworkable for a number of reasons, not least the cycle hire scheme in London that a certain individual by the name of Boris Johnson claims credit would have to be scrapped to fix bikes to owners, among multiple other hire schemes.

I think Shapps is being a loudmouth. His department is not with him on this one. Registration marks (aka number plates) only generally work because cars are quite expensive, and there is a level of owner's protection. Also, there is physical exercise benefit from cycling.

A lot of the moaning about poor cycling comes from so-called professional (road vehicle) drivers who need to realise that mixing it with the public, who don't have the opportunity to do 30-40 hours a week of driving, most weeks, is part-and-parcel of the job.

I have never ridden a folding bike, but they don't look very attractive for the sort of use you have in mind. And an expensive bit of kit that can easily be carried away is going to have security issues.

It depends on the Bike, I have a folding one that I need to set up with nominal 26"/650mm wheels, which not long ago were the norm for full-size bicycles.

 

[PeterC]

A number of paper's tomorrow have this sort of story on the front of it:

Tomorrow's Papers Today - UK Front Pages - Latest Newspaper Headlines

All of UK's Tomorrow's Front Pages ✅ Updated Daily between 7PM - 11pm ✅ The Mail, Express, Times, Guardian and many more Proudly supporting #buyapaper

www.tomorrowspapers.co.uk

View attachment 119331

This strikes me as being a dead cat policy, and at the very least is unworkable for a number of reasons, not least the cycle hire scheme in London that a certain individual by the name of Boris Johnson claims credit would have to be scrapped to fix bikes to owners, among multiple other hire schemes.

You can hire a car or van despite registration, why not a bike?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Switzerland had exactly this (one of the few countries that did) and charged CHF5 for annual insurance (about £4, which suggests just how low claims would be).

They abolished it in about 2010 as pointless.

One thing I would say I would agree with is the 20 limit applying to cyclists (no, you don't have a speedo, but 20 feels fast on a bike). No need for plates to apply it, though, just do actual in person enforcement in locations where there is a known issue with the Lycra lout mob. (If someone is riding a sit up and beg you can pretty much know they aren't exceeding 20).

You can hire a car or van despite registration, why not a bike?

Indeed. The registration would be associated to the hire account. You'd not be able to hire at one of the "pillars" without registering first as you can now, but do many actually do that? It is a system designed before widespread smartphone use.

In any case, I doubt anyone would be riding "Sadiq cycles" over 20mph, as anyone who has ever ridden one would know.

 

[DC1989]

Unfortunately active travel will be given the boot under the new government. Shapps is just jockeying to keep his job or get a new cabinet position under Truss

bikes getting number plates. It can't work and it won't work

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

Very much agree about speed limits for cycles, in particular for €bikes. Many of them have speedometers, fitting them plus limiters could be made compulsory. Speedometers for other bikes could be made standard from new.

Then anyone who wants to obey the law could do so.

Trouble is, the police can not / will not deal with speeding motorists, when might they find time to deal with speeding cyclists?
..
On my fixie exceeding 20mph would be very uncomfortable. I think fixies should be promoted. That would be unpopular with cycle dealers who prefer to sell €bikes for thousands. But in many situations gears are just not necessary.

I urge anyone who has the chance to try a fixie and report on their impressions.

I can not imagine going back to gears!

 

[MattA7]

Surely introducing numbers plates and insurance for cyclists would be counterproductive regarding reducing the number of cars on the road and encouraging exercise.

Irresponsible and selfish cyclists will still continue to do so in the same way they are plenty irresponsible drivers and those who perhaps were thinking of taking up cycling may not bother if they have to get their bike registered and take out insurance.

Also with regards fines and penalty points what happens if the cyclists doesn’t have a driving license. You can’t get points on a driving license you don’t have. Unless they plan to introduce a “cycling license”

 

[Bikeman78]

One thing I would say I would agree with is the 20 limit applying to cyclists (no, you don't have a speedo, but 20 feels fast on a bike). No need for plates to apply it, though, just do actual in person enforcement in locations where there is a known issue with the Lycra lout mob. (If someone is riding a sit up and beg you can pretty much know they aren't exceeding 20).

The chances of a cyclist being convicted of breaking the speed limit are tiny. I can do 20 on a flat road but most motor vehicles are still overtaking. Seems pointless singling out a cyclist.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The chances of a cyclist being convicted of breaking the speed limit are tiny. I can do 20 on a flat road but most motor vehicles are still overtaking. Seems pointless singling out a cyclist.

It very much isn't singling out a cyclist - it is making them the same as all others!

 

[alxndr]

those who perhaps were thinking of taking up cycling may not bother if they have to get their bike registered and take out insurance.

Also with regards fines and penalty points what happens if the cyclists doesn’t have a driving license. You can’t get points on a driving license you don’t have. Unless they plan to introduce a “cycling license

How would either insurance or licenses work with children? We should be looking to normalise cycling from a young age, not add barriers that will put parents off bothering.

 

[JamesT]

It very much isn't singling out a cyclist - it is making them the same as all others!

So when do horseriders get fitted with their speedos?

 

[DC1989]

Don't forget about runners