December 2020 Timetable Change

[Wilts Wanderer]

The direct “Intercity” service between London and Holyhead, has existed since the mid-1800s.

It really isn’t anything new.

There was an overnight sleeper service (down only) until 1986! The sleeper coaches were returned to London on the daytime Irish Mail service.

 

[30907]

There was an overnight sleeper service (down only) until 1986! The sleeper coaches were returned to London on the daytime Irish Mail service.

I thought it was Up only - 0100-ish from Holyhead - as the Down connected with a ferry leaving about 0300 so got you much less sleep if you were going to Ireland.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

I thought it was Up only - 0100-ish from Holyhead - as the Down connected with a ferry leaving about 0300 so got you much less sleep if you were going to Ireland.

Perhaps it was - I may have misremembered what I’ve read.

 

[berneyarms]

Correct - the sleeper was Holyhead-London connecting off the 20:45 Sealink sailing from Dún Laoghaire by the St. Columba.

Some people may be too young to realise the massive volume of foot passenger traffic across the Irish Sea, prior to the arrival of Ryanair in 1985.

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

Correct - the sleeper was Holyhead-London connecting off the 20:45 Sealink sailing from Dún Laoghaire by the St. Columba.

Some people may be too young to realise the massive volume of foot passenger traffic across the Irish Sea, prior to the arrival of Ryanair in 1985.

Footfall will return in decent numbers when duty free trips start again on Jan 1st

 

[Jamesrob637]

Footfall will return in decent numbers when duty free trips start again on Jan 1st

If only Ireland were a bit sunnier... or at least less rainy... I'd move there in the new year in a heartbeat if I had fewer commitments here. But I think we're discussing other things than next month's timetable change.

 

[43055]

EMR PDF timetables are now on the website. Looks like it is the same base timetable as the September one but the Worksop services once again stop at all stations in the day so no buses are required to fill the gaps. The London timetable shows services run just by HSTs or 222s but 180s are due in service and HSTs reduced.

 

[yorksrob]

Wouldn't fancy turning up expecting a HST and getting a 180 !

 

[peters]

Wouldn't fancy turning up expecting a HST and getting a 180 !

To be fair if you turn up for an Intercity service and get an Intercity train you can't complain that it's not your preferred type, unless it's too small for the number of passengers. It's worse that Pacers got used on long services, while some short local services got regional standard trains.

 

[Ianno87]

Wouldn't fancy turning up expecting a HST and getting a 180 !

Just count yourself lucky that you can operate the door handles on an HST. Not everybody is so fortunate.

 

[43055]

Wouldn't fancy turning up expecting a HST and getting a 180 !

Personally I wouldn't mind a 180. Only been on them once and I quite like them but I do prefer a HST to a 222 or 180.

Looking at Real Time Trains it does look like the diagrams are going to change quite a bit in December and HST use may become fairly limited in the day. The three HST from Neville Hill depot in the morning go to Cricklewood after arriving in London and the evening trips all come off Cricklewood at some point in the afternoon. The platform numbers at St Pancras suggests that the Nottingham Fasts will interwork with other services which removes the 70 min layover and reducing the need to double up on platforms.

 

[43074]

Personally I wouldn't mind a 180. Only been on them once and I quite like them but I do prefer a HST to a 222 or 180.

Looking at Real Time Trains it does look like the diagrams are going to change quite a bit in December and HST use may become fairly limited in the day. The three HST from Neville Hill depot in the morning go to Cricklewood after arriving in London and the evening trips all come off Cricklewood at some point in the afternoon. The platform numbers at St Pancras suggests that the Nottingham Fasts will interwork with other services which removes the 70 min layover and reducing the need to double up on platforms.

There are also significantly more EMR ECS between St Pancras and Cricklewood compared to now from the December timetable, which is a blatant attempt to keep the mileage down to a minimum on the remaining HST diagrams, and cover whatever possible with the 222/180 fleet, which is sensible enough if they can get the 180s to work.

There will be at least some opportunities for off peak HST trips though, e.g. reading into RTT 1434 St Pancras to Nottingham and 1645 return which then forms the 1904 to Leeds.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

There are also significantly more EMR ECS between St Pancras and Cricklewood compared to now from the December timetable, which is a blatant attempt to keep the mileage down to a minimum on the remaining HST diagrams, and cover whatever possible with the 222/180 fleet, which is sensible enough if they can get the 180s to work.

The biggest driver behind this is to try and provide ‘accessible’ stock on as many journeys as possible.

 

[Ianno87]

The biggest driver behind this is to try and provide ‘accessible’ stock on as many journeys as possible.

The importance of accessibility seems to be totally lost on many enthusiasts.

 

[43074]

The biggest driver behind this is to try and provide ‘accessible’ stock on as many journeys as possible.

Yes absolutely, I was just pointing out the implications of doing so on the diagrams.

 

[Scotrail314209]

Scotrail announcing a reduction from 30th November, apparently reducing trains between Edinburgh and Glasgow. Looking at the timetable, I see no difference from any other time?

----- NEW POST ----

From 14th December Scotrail are cutting the hourly fast service via Shotts. Shotts returns to an hourly train service.

 

[diamond chap]

Scotrail announcing a reduction from 30th November, apparently reducing trains between Edinburgh and Glasgow. Looking at the timetable, I see no difference from any other time?

----- NEW POST ----

From 14th December Scotrail are cutting the hourly fast service via Shotts. Shotts returns to an hourly train service.

I noticed a difference on the Falkirk High route - there are currently 15 minutes between successive services in the weekday morning and evening peaks and 30 minutes during the rest of the day. From the timetable change, the service reduces to every 30 minutes all day.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Looking at Stockport the South TPE gaps seem to have been plugged to reinstate the full service.

 

[D6975]

The eNRT has been postponed. From the NR Site:​

​

December 2020 NRT – update​

The December 2020 NRT has been postponed due to the COVID-19 pandemic’s impact on the volume of change on the operational timetable. This level of change means we cannot produce an NRT that represents a high standard of accuracy and therefore would not benefit our customers.

We will update the site in future when we have a proposed date for the NRT to be published.

In the meantime please refer to National Rail Enquiries' website for the latest operator timetables.

 

[TEW]

SWR's planned December 2020 timetable change will not be going ahead as planned now. The weekday timetable will run as per now until March, although the new weekend timetable will come in. RTT now reflects this.

 

[Uk125]

So TPE December timetable will not go ahead also?

 

[HamworthyGoods]

So TPE December timetable will not go ahead also?

TPE’s timetable was also ‘descoped’ from what was originally planned. This descoped timetable has been in the downstream systems such as National Rail and Real Time Trains for a couple of weeks at least now.

SWR’s has only more recently been uploaded to these systems.

 

[DaveHarries]

GWR have a poster at Bristol Temple Meads giving at least some of their changes from 13th December and RTT does carry these. Cuts to late evening and Sunday morning services from Bristol, Didcot, Oxford and Paddington for starters but there are some increases in weekday services as well along with additional services between Par and Newquay.

Dave

 

[Mintona]

Wow, that is late first London from Bristol on a Sunday. It’s been 07.45 since I can remember.

I’m guessing it is probably as much to do with Bristol East Jn remodelling work as anything else.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Wow, that is late first London from Bristol on a Sunday. It’s been 07.45 since I can remember.

I’m guessing it is probably as much to do with Bristol East Jn remodelling work as anything else.

Yes, there is a very significant bank of work to be undertaken by Network Rail to ensure next summer’s Bristol East blockades can go ahead, and follow up work afterward.

 

[peters]

Some Northern services for w/c 15/12/2020 included in the new pdf timetable booklets are currently missing on RTT.

 

[jonnyfan]

Some Northern services for w/c 15/12/2020 included in the new pdf timetable booklets are currently missing on RTT.

There's going to be some services removed temporarily until mid-January due to increasing levels of covid related absence around the Manchester & Liverpool depots - I'd expect something on the website shortly to explain any changes

 

[PHILIPE]

Some Northern services for w/c 15/12/2020 included in the new pdf timetable booklets are currently missing on RTT.

They have probably decided to work on them since the PDF was prepared.

 

[peters]

There's going to be some services removed temporarily until mid-January due to increasing levels of covid related absence around the Manchester & Liverpool depots - I'd expect something on the website shortly to explain any changes

Not good for anyone who already has bought Advance tickets for travel over Christmas. There is already a message about Liverpool to Manchester 'service amendments' for this week.

**Update**
Northern's pdf timetables have been updated. Some services now have a W at the top of the column, meaning the service doesn't operate until 25th January.

 

[js1000]

There's going to be some services removed temporarily until mid-January due to increasing levels of covid related absence around the Manchester & Liverpool depots - I'd expect something on the website shortly to explain any changes

I presume these are the missing Liverpool to Manchester Airport express services? We were expecting an uplift of 10 services in December. I think there are only 6 accounted for on RTT currently.