December 2022 Timetable Changes

[ChiefPlanner]

Is XC going to re-introduce stopping at Brockenhurst of all trains rather than the miserable 2 per day now?

I never did understand what saving this gave XC.

A tiny saving in station access costs. (and presumably some operational resilience)

XC would not be concerned by the loss of ORCATS revenue , as that is now a matter for the DfT who take the revenue "risk" ......

 

[Goldfish62]

Is XC going to re-introduce stopping at Brockenhurst of all trains rather than the miserable 2 per day now?

I never did understand what saving this gave XC.

"Due to Covid" to aid social distancing apparently. Judging by their website XC still think we have restrictions in place so no doubt they'll still trot out this tired old excuse.

 

[dk1]

"Due to Covid" to aid social distancing apparently. Judging by their website XC still think we have restrictions in place so no doubt they'll still trot out this tired old excuse.

And what on earth is ‘social distancing’ these days? That’s one of the greatest things you can do to alienate your customer base & XC do that extremely well.

 

[Kite159]

Especially when I dare say the number of local passengers using Brockenhurst who boarded at Bournemouth or Southampton is dwarfed by the number of local passengers XC carry between Wolverhampton & Birmingham because "it's fast"

 

[JonathanH]

the number of local passengers XC carry between Wolverhampton & Birmingham because "it's fast"

Do passengers between Wolverhampton and Birmingham target XC trains or just catch the first one going in the right direction?

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Do passengers between Wolverhampton and Birmingham target XC trains or just catch the first one going in the right direction?

As in many circumstances - the populace goes for the faster trains - e.g 390's from say Coventry to New Street. An issue with XC - always picked up - and especially after Operation Princess was the desire for the trans to be used for "fast" commuting , as opposed to getting the local train. Think Solihull for example - and many other examples.

 

[The Planner]

Do passengers between Wolverhampton and Birmingham target XC trains or just catch the first one going in the right direction?

It is the fastest train as its the only non-stop, though as long as you avoid the stopper its all a bit of a non event.

 

[Kite159]

Although unlike other lines the stopper doesn't get overtaken so if you arrive at Wolverhampton and have just missed a service with the next being the stopper it won't cost you any time if you take the stopper.

The only service which might get overtaken is the Crewe - Birmingham which goes via Tame Bridge

 

[P Binnersley]

There is a "from Shrewsbury" WMT service 7 minutes in front of the XC from Wolverhampton to Birmingham.

The Avanti from Glasgow/Edinburgh/Blackpool arrives 7 minutes before the XC and leaves 5 minutes after. Therefore booking engines build in a change from the Avanti service to the XC to give the shortest journey time.

 

[nw1]

I believe the theory is that it reduces passenger numbers by forcing shorter distance journeys to/from Brockenhurst, eg the college students, to use SWR.

Perhaps but it also makes IC journeys from the north to Lymington, and thus the IoW, harder as two changes are required.

It also makes recreational journeys to the New Forest from other areas of South Hampshire a little more difficult. The 15-min interval "up" service from Brockenhurst (one of these being an XC) was always very useful.

Maybe they could have just non-stopped those pairs of XCs scheduled to pass through Brockenhurst around 0900 and 1600?

On a related note, any estimation of when XC will become hourly again?

The xx02 and xx32 in the peaks are running again

Admittedly only the 1702, 1732 and 1802

Ah ok, thanks. That said my suggestion of running the Haslemere terminator at xx02 or xx32 (probably the latter, as the xx30 is the fast) was really just for off-peak: it looks like the 15-min interval Portsmouth Direct service still exists during the peak so these paths would not be needed then.

 

[The Planner]

Although unlike other lines the stopper doesn't get overtaken so if you arrive at Wolverhampton and have just missed a service with the next being the stopper it won't cost you any time if you take the stopper.

The only service which might get overtaken is the Crewe - Birmingham which goes via Tame Bridge

People would still head for a non stop as it feels faster, even if it gets there later.

 

[-Colly405-]

Also from Reading, it’s notable how the useless expressing of Cotswold line services between London Paddington and Oxford creates a significant gap in Cotswold line departures from Reading in the PM peak.

I say useless as I understand this was to allow for the Bristol ‘SuperFasts’… which haven’t run since March 2020.

Are those Superfasts ever likely to return?

 

[dk1]

Are those Superfasts ever likely to return?

Who knows? Time will tell.

 

[JonathanH]

Are those Superfasts ever likely to return?

Who knows? Time will tell.

Well we do know they aren't returning in the short term because there is a track access application from GWR that rehypothecates the paths from Paddington for other purposes.

 

[Goldfish62]

And what on earth is ‘social distancing’ these days? That’s one of the greatest things you can do to alienate your customer base & XC do that extremely well.

It's not a thing anymore of course - except that XC seem to be unaware of that.

 

[Bald Rick]

Are those Superfasts ever likely to return?

not likely no.

 

[-Colly405-]

Well we do know they aren't returning in the short term because there is a track access application from GWR that rehypothecates the paths from Paddington for other purposes.

Are the "other purposes" in the public domain, and if so, where can we find them?

 

[nw1]

Are the "other purposes" in the public domain, and if so, where can we find them?

Regarding the paths of the Bristol super-fasts: isn't the idea to speed up the Didcots to run fast-line to Slough? (This has come up on another thread)

 

[JonathanH]

Are the "other purposes" in the public domain, and if so, where can we find them?

Regarding the paths of the Bristol super-fasts: isn't the idea to speed up the Didcots to run fast-line to Slough? (This has come up on another thread)

Yes - to allow Didcot to Paddington services to run fast line east of Slough, but the proposal is for May 2023, not December 2022.

See https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...d-upminster-branch.233856/page-4#post-5744208

 

[bramling]

People would still head for a non stop as it feels faster, even if it gets there later.

Some people also prefer non-stop trains as they know they won’t be bothered by people getting on and off at intermediate stations. For example people can settle down and know a Jeremy Kyle family aren’t going to join somewhere. Time isn’t the only issue.

 

[-Colly405-]

Yes - to allow Didcot to Paddington services to run fast line east of Slough, but the proposal is for May 2023, not December 2022.

See https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...d-upminster-branch.233856/page-4#post-5744208

Thanks.
That looks to be the Bristol superfast path - from memory that was the BRI-BPW-PAD one? Presumably the South Wales path is still useable?

 

[Big Jumby 74]

.

 

[Class 466]

Any idea HS1 services from Medway Towns will resume to 2tph off peak? Plus 2tph between Strood and Maidstone on M-F off peak

Still 1tph HS off peak in December i believe. If I lived there I’d sooner get the Victoria Fasts that are only a couple of minutes slower tops.

 

[irish_rail]

Are those Superfasts ever likely to return?

I'd say some kind of superfast to Plymouth and Cornwall from London would be more use in a post covid world, say 2 hrs 45 London to Plymouth??? No idea if thatd be doable, but would be of far more use than quick Bristol to London trains when that service is already quick anyway!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'd say some kind of superfast to Plymouth and Cornwall from London would be more use in a post covid world, say 2 hrs 45 London to Plymouth??? No idea if thatd be doable, but would be of far more use than quick Bristol to London trains when that service is already quick anyway!

The Penzance trains are mostly already non stop Reading to Taunton, there's not a lot more scope to speed them up really, you're only talking about 4 stops from Taunton to Plymouth inclusive.

 

[Clarence Yard]

Putting the Didcot trains on the mains should block off the mains enough so that the proposed Grand Union paths don’t work. Neat.

 

[The exile]

Thanks.
That looks to be the Bristol superfast path - from memory that was the BRI-BPW-PAD one? Presumably the South Wales path is still useable?

If the BRI-BPW-PAD path is now getting used for other purposes at the London end, is there any chance that the BPW terminators that were cut back to Filton Abbey Wood to avoid conflicts with the superfasts could be reinstated to BPW? Or were they conflicting with something else?

 

[HamworthyGoods]

If the BRI-BPW-PAD path is now getting used for other purposes at the London end, is there any chance that the BPW terminators that were cut back to Filton Abbey Wood to avoid conflicts with the superfasts could be reinstated to BPW? Or were they conflicting with something else?

They are due to extend at due course to the new station at Henbury.

The 2nd local service per hour to Bristol Parkway will in due course be provided by the additional Bristol to Gloucester services.

 

[irish_rail]

The Penzance trains are mostly already non stop Reading to Taunton, there's not a lot more scope to speed them up really, you're only talking about 4 stops from Taunton to Plymouth inclusive.

Cutting out Taunton, Tiverton, and Totnes with a decent path would save some minutes, and maybe it could be justified to cut out Newton on a few trains per day. I guess the big issue with a south west super fast is it would prove too popular and the quick trains would soon be full and standing.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Cutting out Taunton, Tiverton, and Totnes with a decent path would save some minutes, and maybe it could be justified to cut out Newton on a few trains per day. I guess the big issue with a south west super fast is it would prove too popular and the quick trains would soon be full and standing.

Depends how you price it. Charge a premium in terms of the advance fares and then people would choose between cost and time.

In reality the more pragmatic solution is to find a way to enhance the semi-fast services to Exeter to fill some of the gaps that way you could take out some of the Taunton and Tiverton calls without leaving 90 minute gaps in the service from London, it’s not unreasonable for the county town of Somerset to expect an hourly service to London but that doesn’t necessarily have to be provided by Penzance services.

Totnes is a difficult one the catchment area is so big, demand has grown considerably and both GWR and XC have tapped into that by giving a regular near on hourly service.