Delay repay on Split Tickets (ATW)

[Marty82]

Recently travelled with my partner using a Two Together Railcard. We were delayed 30 minutes so I am submitting a Delay Repay request to Arriva Trains Wales. Am I correct in thinking that I should claim for the entire journey (ABD - AGV) rather than just the ATW legs? Do ATW generally pay out for the entire journey or just their own legs? Reading the forums there seem to be different policies at different companies.

I think I am due £31.07 based on the tickets in the attachment broken down as follows:

ABD - HYM £6.75 (50% of Single)
HYM - CRE £6.60 (50% of Single)
CRE - SHR £6.40 (25% of Return)
SHR - AGV £11.32 (25% of Return)

Am I correct? I will put this in with the claim but should I say anything else?

Thanks in advance to anyone who can help.

 

[A Challenge]

What service were you delayed on, and when did you arrive at Abergavenny?

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Recently travelled with my partner using a Two Together Railcard. We were delayed 30 minutes so I am submitting a Delay Repay request to Arriva Trains Wales. Am I correct in thinking that I should claim for the entire journey (ABD - AGV) rather than just the ATW legs? Do ATW generally pay out for the entire journey or just their own legs? Reading the forums there seem to be different policies at different companies.

I think I am due £31.07 based on the tickets in the attachment broken down as follows:

ABD - HYM £6.75 (50% of Single)
HYM - CRE £6.60 (50% of Single)
CRE - SHR £6.40 (25% of Return)
SHR - AGV £11.32 (25% of Return)

Am I correct? I will put this in with the claim but should I say anything else?

Thanks in advance to anyone who can help.

Provided it was ATW's services (or lack thereof) that caused your journey to end up being delayed, you very probably have a claim for delay compensation. I say very probably - because there is a small possibility that the delay was entirely outside the control of the rail industry, in which case ATW may make use of the exemption to having to pay compensation which is offered by Condition 33.4 of the National Rail Conditions of Travel (NRCoT). Not many train companies make use of this exemption, most having moved to the non-fault Delay Repay system; notably, ATW is the only one train company on your journey that makes use of the exemption.

Not all TOCs are very willing to pay out on combinations of tickets, but they are all contractually obliged to do so. You have the right to be considered to be making one journey despite using multiple tickets, as per Condition 14.1 of the NRCoT. The only qualifications are that you stop or change at each station you change tickets, and that you leave at least the minimum connection time at each interchange station when planning you itinerary (you cannot claim assistance or compensation in relation to a journey where you didn't do both).

You are entitled to compensation for the delay to your journey, and the compensation applicable depends on the delay caused to your journey, and is calculated with respect to the value of your tickets.

 

[island]

You will normally get compensated based on all the tickets you used for your journey and your calculations are correct.

Two caveats. As ForTheLoveOf mentions, ATW has chosen to exclude its liability for delays outwith the control of the rail industry. Whether an individual delay is or is not outwith the control of the rail industry is a question of fact. Also, some train companies do not consistently pay delay compensation based on the full journey where a passenger has chosen not to purchase a through ticket for the journey. This probably doesn’t stand up to close scrutiny, but if you don’t receive the amount of compensation you feel you deserve, it can be an uphill battle to obtain more.

 

[Marty82]

What service were you delayed on, and when did you arrive at Abergavenny?

The service from Crewe to Abergavenny - we arrived at 1843 instead of 1813.

Provided it was ATW's services (or lack thereof) that caused your journey to end up being delayed, you very probably have a claim for delay compensation. I say very probably - because there is a small possibility that the delay was entirely outside the control of the rail industry, in which case ATW may make use of the exemption to having to pay compensation which is offered by Condition 33.4 of the National Rail Conditions of Travel (NRCoT). Not many train companies make use of this exemption, most having moved to the non-fault Delay Repay system; notably, ATW is the only one train company on your journey that makes use of the exemption.

Not all TOCs are very willing to pay out on combinations of tickets, but they are all contractually obliged to do so. You have the right to be considered to be making one journey despite using multiple tickets, as per Condition 14.1 of the NRCoT. The only qualifications are that you stop or change at each station you change tickets, and that you leave at least the minimum connection time at each interchange station when planning you itinerary (you cannot claim assistance or compensation in relation to a journey where you didn't do both).

You are entitled to compensation for the delay to your journey, and the compensation applicable depends on the delay caused to your journey, and is calculated with respect to the value of your tickets.

It was a delay on ATW due to a report of a tree on the line. I'm not sure if this would count as outside the control of the rail industry. Thanks for all your information. It may come in handy to quote if ATW denies my claim.

You will normally get compensated based on all the tickets you used for your journey and your calculations are correct.

Two caveats. As ForTheLoveOf mentions, ATW has chosen to exclude its liability for delays outwith the control of the rail industry. Whether an individual delay is or is not outwith the control of the rail industry is a question of fact. Also, some train companies do not consistently pay delay compensation based on the full journey where a passenger has chosen not to purchase a through ticket for the journey. This probably doesn’t stand up to close scrutiny, but if you don’t receive the amount of compensation you feel you deserve, it can be an uphill battle to obtain more.

Thanks for the information. As I said above, there was a report of a tree on the line so I'm not sure whether this would count as outwith the control of the rail industry.

 

[Gareth Marston]

If the said tree came down due to weather conditions i.e a storm then ATW will not pay out as this will be deemed outside their control and looking at the date on your tickets it could well be one of those days...

 

[Marty82]

I was wondering that too however that day the highest gust in the area was only 33 mph which I certainly wouldn't class as a storm.

 

[Haywain]

I was wondering that too however that day the highest gust in the area was only 33 mph which I certainly wouldn't class as a storm.

Trees weakened in storms may well fall over in lighter winds.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Trees on the line may or may not constitute a cause of delay that is "entirely outside the control of the rail industry". It depends entirely on the circumstances - for example, whether the trees fell onto the line very shortly in front of the OP's service, or whether the incident had occurred many hours earlier.

I suspect that if there is any suggestion that ATW could use this as a justification for not having to pay compensation, they will try to make use of the exemption. That they try to use it does not mean they are correct in applying the exemption - but equally, challenging an incorrect application is definitely not a simple process (I would nevertheless still always try it if I think they have incorrectly done it).