Delays due to "train cancellations"

[jacksmithyton]

Why is Hammersmith so unpopular to work at? It's not as if the control centre is at the end of the Met line...

 

[philthetube]

for anyone who travels into London Hammersmith I going to take an extra 20 mins travel time in each direction, unless you happen to arrive at Paddington, additionally the building is not nice to work in, it is like a giant squash court and just as echo prone.

All those who were thinking of retiring have, thus shortages.

The main reason why the met is difficult to control is the different branches which have to be served, which have different journey times.

On the Vic all the trains are going to the same place so if you are a driver short then a train can me taken out at 7 sisters and put away half a trip early, without causing much disruption, the extra platform helps. On the Northern trines can be taken out at Golders Green, Barnet, and and Morden fairly easily because of track layout, also at East Finchley on the South. On the Met there is Only Uxbridge where tipping out a train does not obstruct the running line, and that is not ideal as it is not a train crew depot. Additionally because of infrequent services on the north end of the line there is more pressure to maintain some sort of service, if you lose two consecutive Watford services that is a 45 minute gap, 2 Cheshams is even worse.

P.S I am not a controller but can see the issues.

 

[Horizon22]

Indeed, the last two posts are a pretty accurate summary IMV.

I’m not sure it’s necessarily the case that workload is that much different across the system - the Vic Line for example runs around half the number of trains some other lines do, but the intensity of the service means it’s still hard work.

I think the Met issue is that their line seems to go up the wall disproportionately more often than anywhere else, then when it does there’s a lot more people in the loop because of the way the line itself and its control structure is laid out.

You can then add to this that Hammersmith is simply an unpopular location.

Covid has simply amplified issues which were already there.

Take a hypothetical example. If on a Saturday you come to work as a controller and are more-or-less guaranteed to have a list of 50 cancellations to have to work through. Is this or isn’t this normal workload, considering that (1) you’re still going to get your daily diet of incidents ranging from infrastructure failures, people stuck in lifts, train issues, passenger issues, et cetera), and (2) the list of cancellations is largely because there simply aren’t enough drivers. At some point you’re going to get the hump when it’s happening day after day, and you’re essentially being dumped with the tail end of a problem. Then Covid comes along and turbocharges all this.

If it were me, I’d do two things more or less straight away:
1) Split up the Met control function to even up the workload. Have an H&C controller for everything inwards of Baker Street, and a Met controller for everywhere else. This would need some very careful protocols for the Baker Street area itself though.
2) Make recruitment location specific. At the moment things are not helped by the fact people are being put off applying for the *role* because they might end up at one of the less desirable locations, or somewhere on the opposite side of London to where they live. You then end up left with the “applying for the money” candidates rather than necessarily those with a sparkle for the job. So say you have someone prepared to take on a role at Neasden, Highgate or Northumberland Park (north London), but not prepared to take on Wood Lane or Hammersmith (west London). At present there’s no guarantee they’ll end up where they want, which is stupid for a shift-based job as somewhere like Hammersmith may well be almost physically impossible for them to reach in reasonable terms at certain times. So they pull out of the job, and the whole grade is now one down. To me this is cutting the nose to spite the face. Once left with the “doing it for the money” candidates, you can bet there’s a higher likelihood of them failing the training. It’s completely counter-intuitive - we have TOCs who impose strict limits on how far a driver can live from their work location, yet LU is actively placing people at a location where they might incur an extra hour’s travel-to-work time. It’s insane IMO.

I am also somewhat shocked that such a critical role seems to rely on single-manning with no ability to cross cover. But yeah location for a job advert should be defined or, if its vague, have suitable questions to inform applicants of this well in advance.

Also some of the things you mentioned are like 2 or 3 people's jobs at a NWR control centre or even station control. Like a combination of a signaller (infrastructure issues), controller (crew / stock / service issues) and information assistants (lift issues for instance).

for anyone who travels into London Hammersmith I going to take an extra 20 mins travel time in each direction, unless you happen to arrive at Paddington, additionally the building is not nice to work in, it is like a giant squash court and just as echo prone.

All those who were thinking of retiring have, thus shortages.

The main reason why the met is difficult to control is the different branches which have to be served, which have different journey times.

On the Vic all the trains are going to the same place so if you are a driver short then a train can me taken out at 7 sisters and put away half a trip early, without causing much disruption, the extra platform helps. On the Northern trines can be taken out at Golders Green, Barnet, and and Morden fairly easily because of track layout, also at East Finchley on the South. On the Met there is Only Uxbridge where tipping out a train does not obstruct the running line, and that is not ideal as it is not a train crew depot. Additionally because of infrequent services on the north end of the line there is more pressure to maintain some sort of service, if you lose two consecutive Watford services that is a 45 minute gap, 2 Cheshams is even worse.

P.S I am not a controller but can see the issues.

Is that the "new shiny" control centre? I remember seeing a video somewhere a few years ago before it was about to be brought into commission. The Met is also more akin to what a train service manager on the NWR side would deal with due to the various branches and service patterns.

 

[bramling]

Why is Hammersmith so unpopular to work at? It's not as if the control centre is at the end of the Met line...

For various reasons, many control staff tend to live in outer London, or deeper into the Home Counties. Hammersmith is reasonably okay for those living in south-west London, not so for pretty much anywhere else. On top of that there’s a lack of parking.

Who would want to work a long shift with a 2-hour journey either side?

Bear in mind the old location was Baker Street, which was rather more accessible from a range of mainline termini, plus had some rail heading options.

 

[Horizon22]

For various reasons, many control staff tend to live in outer London, or deeper into the Home Counties. Hammersmith is reasonably okay for those living in south-west London, not so for pretty much anywhere else. On top of that there’s a lack of parking.

Who would want to work a long shift with a 2-hour journey either side?

Bear in mind the old location was Baker Street, which was rather more accessible from a range of mainline termini, plus had some rail heading options.

That's a pretty weak argument (not suggesting you're making it!) considering many control centres for TOCs and indeed every London terminal has the same issue. Parking issues more understandable.

 

[bramling]

That's a pretty weak argument (not suggesting you're making it!) considering many control centres for TOCs and indeed every London terminal has the same issue. Parking issues more understandable.

What has tended to happen is there’s been a shift over the last two decades towards having the centres in odd places, essentially where there was an odd bit of control-centre-sized land!

So things have gone from having centres at Baker Street, Euston and Earl’s Court, to much more diverse locations such as Highgate, Neasden, Northumberland Park, White City, and now more recently South Kensington and Hammersmith.

The latter two are of course perfectly okay for the former Earl’s Court staff (albeit Hammersmith is still a bit more awkward if coming from the east), but a pain for the Baker Street staff. Notice how the District and Piccadilly lines don’t seem to be having the same issues, but the Met side is.

For the other various north London locations what has happened is most people now simply drive, sites in question offering decent parking provision and road access, so this hasn’t turned into a problem.

This just leaves one other centre in west London, the Central Line’s at White City, and surprise surprise this is another one which has some vacancies. This may well be an increasing issue in the future, as originally that room was quite heavily staffed by people displaced from the Central Line’s signal cabins, many of whom tended to live east, and for whom White City was still reasonably accessible by Central Line, the extra travel time being compensated for by a potential pay rise. Watch out for that location having issues as 25 years on we’re now at the point where many of the ex-cabins people will be thinking about retiring. Again is it worth people having a long journey to work for not much of a pay rise? So again you’re left with “doing it for the money” people, which is fine as long as they can pass the training.

 

[Horizon22]

What has tended to happen is there’s been a shift over the last two decades towards having the centres in odd places, essentially where there was an odd bit of control-centre-sized land!

So things have gone from having centres at Baker Street, Euston and Earl’s Court, to much more diverse locations such as Highgate, Neasden, Northumberland Park, White City, and now more recently South Kensington and Hammersmith.

The latter two are of course perfectly okay for the former Earl’s Court staff (albeit Hammersmith is still a bit more awkward if coming from the east), but a pain for the Baker Street staff. Notice how the District and Piccadilly lines don’t seem to be having the same issues, but the Met side is.

For the other various north London locations what has happened is most people now simply drive, sites in question offering decent parking provision and road access, so this hasn’t turned into a problem.

This just leaves one other centre in west London, the Central Line’s at White City, and surprise surprise this is another one which has some vacancies. This may well be an increasing issue in the future, as originally that room was quite heavily staffed by people displaced from the Central Line’s signal cabins, many of whom tended to live east, and for whom White City was still reasonably accessible by Central Line, the extra travel time being compensated for by a potential pay rise. Watch out for that location having issues as 25 years on we’re now at the point where many of the ex-cabins people will be thinking about retiring. Again is it worth people having a long journey to work for not much of a pay rise? So again you’re left with “doing it for the money” people, which is fine as long as they can pass the training.

Still I find it very surprising. Somewhere like White City or Hammersmith has a very wide catchment area and you're making a lots of assumptions about journey times. It seems all the recruitment is internal also, which is naturally restricting the number of potential applicants.

 

[bramling]

I am also somewhat shocked that such a critical role seems to rely on single-manning with no ability to cross cover. But yeah location for a job advert should be defined or, if its vague, have suitable questions to inform applicants of this well in advance.

Also some of the things you mentioned are like 2 or 3 people's jobs at a NWR control centre or even station control. Like a combination of a signaller (infrastructure issues), controller (crew / stock / service issues) and information assistants (lift issues for instance).



Is that the "new shiny" control centre? I remember seeing a video somewhere a few years ago before it was about to be brought into commission. The Met is also more akin to what a train service manager on the NWR side would deal with due to the various branches and service patterns.

You make a very relevant point about cross covering. All of the recent (in LU terms recent is 30 years!) rooms have adopted a structure where everyone in the room is qualified as a controller and signaller (*). This costs more as you’re paying everyone controller pay, but tends to make for a more professional atmosphere, as well as simplifying coverage.

My understanding - though please anyone correct me if I’m wrong - is Hammersmith isn’t getting this structure, as it’s deemed too expensive, considering the number of signal desks ultimately planned. I think I’m right in saying the Northern with its four signal desks is getting to the point where this setup reaches the point of being hard to financially justify.

(* this is another area which has run into issues over time, as many ex signallers don’t like being controller, and to a lesser extent vice versa. On top of that most of the training focus has been on the controller role, with little formal training for how to be a quality signaller (the training very much focusses on how to operate the software, not on what are the optimal decisions and when).

As I say, many issues.

Still I find it very surprising. Somewhere like White City or Hammersmith has a very wide catchment area and you're making a lots of assumptions about journey times. It seems all the recruitment is internal also, which is naturally restricting the number of potential applicants.

The problem with the recruitment is it’s quite a blunt instrument. The selection process is reasonably involved, but the whole thing is very blunt. You could have someone with a lot of experience and knowledge (and thus likely to pass the training), but who simply doesn’t want to work at Hammersmith. At present such a person, likely to be already on a similar salary, is going to be turned off.

The problem is Hammersmith simply doesn’t have a good catchment. Take someone who lives in north London, they’ve got a potentially torturous journey on either the Picc or H&C lines to get there. Worse if they arrive via a mainline train. By comparison somewhere like Highgate or Neasden is probably simply a 30-60 minute drive for many.

As I posted elsewhere, for some reason many controllers tend to live outside or in outer London. Hammersmith is essentially restricting this to people with a very specific set of circumstances - namely people who live on the west end of the District or Piccadilly lines. In practice this appears to be proving to be a niche market, and don’t forget Hammersmith is in competition with White City for such people.

 

[Horizon22]

The problem is Hammersmith simply doesn’t have a good catchment. Take someone who lives in north London, they’ve got a potentially torturous journey on either the Picc or H&C lines to get there. Worse if they arrive via a mainline train. By comparison somewhere like Highgate or Neasden is probably simply a 30-60 minute drive for many.

As I posted elsewhere, for some reason many controllers tend to live outside or in outer London. Hammersmith is essentially restricting this to people with a very specific set of circumstances - namely people who live on the west end of the District or Piccadilly lines. In practice this appears to be proving to be a niche market, and don’t forget Hammersmith is in competition with White City for such people.

Not sure Hammersmith is that (options from Paddington and possibly the SW) dire but agreed its not fantastic. Still seems to me that recruitment is being highly restricted and is causing its own problems. I have a general gist of the salary of a LU controller and it seems to me many external candidates with the right sort of experience / characteristics would jump at the opportunity even with a 60 minute commute.

 

[bramling]

Not sure Hammersmith is that (options from Paddington and possibly the SW) dire but agreed its not fantastic. Still seems to me that recruitment is being highly restricted and is causing its own problems. I have a general gist of the salary of a LU controller and it seems to me many external candidates with the right sort of experience / characteristics would jump at the opportunity even with a 60 minute commute.

The difficulty seems to be that many such external candidates either fail the training, or also don’t live in central London. Many of the ones who have been externally recruited seem to live even further away!

Things are now even more dire because word gets round as to how much of a poison chalice Hammersmith currently is, which is putting internal people off the entire role, as they could end up there.

 

[Horizon22]

The difficulty seems to be that many such external candidates either fail the training, or also don’t live in central London. Many of the ones who have been externally recruited seem to live even further away!

Things are now even more dire because word gets round as to how much of a poison chalice Hammersmith currently is, which is putting internal people off the entire role, as they could end up there.

I can imagine! Bit of a self-fulfilling circle it appears but obviously something to get a grip of. This also doesn't seem as related to Covid, and I don't think TfL wants the image of being unable to run several lines every Sunday for months on end.

 

[philthetube]

For various reasons, many control staff tend to live in outer London, or deeper into the Home Counties. Hammersmith is reasonably okay for those living in south-west London, not so for pretty much anywhere else. On top of that there’s a lack of parking.

Who would want to work a long shift with a 2-hour journey either side?

Bear in mind the old location was Baker Street, which was rather more accessible from a range of mainline termini, plus had some rail heading options.

That's a pretty weak argument (not suggesting you're making it!) considering many control centres for TOCs and indeed every London terminal has the same issue. Parking issues more understandable.

Not a weak argument because it is happening

Still I find it very surprising. Somewhere like White City or Hammersmith has a very wide catchment area and you're making a lots of assumptions about journey times. It seems all the recruitment is internal also, which is naturally restricting the number of potential applicants.

Most of the staff currently at, or who recently left Hammersmith were recruited before the move, since the move and with covid there has not been time to recruit and train enough suitable people.

Is that the "new shiny" control centre? I remember seeing a video somewhere a few years ago before it was about to be brought into commission. The Met is also more akin to what a train service manager on the NWR side would deal with due to the various branches and service patterns.

yes

Very




There is another part that I haven’t seen very well explained. If there is a shortage, normal company reaction is an emergency retention policy (throwing big bonuses at staff to stay on a bit longer until new trainees are ready). Clearly TfL failed to even do this.

I have heard that this has been done, I would not stake my house on it however, as it came from the rumour mill.

 

[bramling]

I can imagine! Bit of a self-fulfilling circle it appears but obviously something to get a grip of. This also doesn't seem as related to Covid, and I don't think TfL wants the image of being unable to run several lines every Sunday for months on end.

Covid has I think amplified a problem which was already there. I would imagine that if there’s people off shielding then once they return that would be enough to keep a lid on things. But, as you say, not a long-term solution by any means.

 

[juliet_papa]

Not sure Hammersmith is that (options from Paddington and possibly the SW) dire but agreed its not fantastic. Still seems to me that recruitment is being highly restricted and is causing its own problems. I have a general gist of the salary of a LU controller and it seems to me many external candidates with the right sort of experience / characteristics would jump at the opportunity even with a 60 minute commute.

An external candidate that would apply for such role would be aware of the sacrifices that they would be making by applying to a location 60min away and can plan their lives with that mind. Things are a bit different when you apply for a role that may be based in any of the control rooms in London and you won’t know where until you have already invested a lot of time into it. And sometimes for not a lot more money.

The role of a LU controller seems very complex and requires a lot of knowledge in many areas of LU. It seems that one person has the same responsibilities that multiple people have on mainline. (Signaller, SSM, Incident controller, Train Running controller, TOC train/service controller and maybe even more.) Individually, those roles can be “easier” to master. When a LU controller does all of that, is not surprising the role has a high rate of failure even with internal candidates. I think recruiting externally would still result in people failing and won’t solve the issue.

Very


One of the many reasons officially ends in few days time (shielding), and with workplace testing for large organisations now available, another one isolating should be much reduced.

However, based on various comment, there does seem to a lack of qualified staff (due to retirements, leaving etc). But that rather puts into question the succession plan, why internally promoting and training up a reserve pool of staff never happened. The role is an important cog in a big machine, actually it’s a critical cog because the other roles are pointless if that one isn’t done as trains don’t run. Its like a football team that looses the person who brings the balls to the game, rest of team can’t then do anything.

Obviously skilled roles require training, which can be time consuming, but this is known, so in most industries you run excess of critical roles. Could you imagine a shortage of air traffic controllers being acceptable.

There is another part that I haven’t seen very well explained. If there is a shortage, normal company reaction is an emergency retention policy (throwing big bonuses at staff to stay on a bit longer until new trainees are ready). Clearly TfL failed to even do this.

Throwing money at people won’t always solve the problem. If someone is unhappy due to a variety of reasons and they are ready to retire or take a job elsewhere, they most likely won’t need/care about the extra money and will just leave anyway.

That's a pretty weak argument (not suggesting you're making it!) considering many control centres for TOCs and indeed every London terminal has the same issue. Parking issues more understandable.

But again, most people that work on those locations have chosen to work there. I work in a place which I hve to drive as my train journey would be twice as long, plus my drive can be a pain in the backside because of traffic, but I made a conscious decision when applying to be here and made sure it would fine and wouldn’t affect my personal life. Many people that I work with wouldn’t be willing to do the same. On the same point, if my company forced me to move to any of the other locations in my area, it would make my life a lot harder and I would be extremely unhappy.

I think the main thing LU needs to somehow make the role more attractive to internal applicants.

 

[bramling]

An external candidate that would apply for such role would be aware of the sacrifices that they would be making by applying to a location 60min away and can plan their lives with that mind. Things are a bit different when you apply for a role that may be based in any of the control rooms in London and you won’t know where until you have already invested a lot of time into it. And sometimes for not a lot more money.

The role of a LU controller seems very complex and requires a lot of knowledge in many areas of LU. It seems that one person has the same responsibilities that multiple people have on mainline. (Signaller, SSM, Incident controller, Train Running controller, TOC train/service controller and maybe even more.) Individually, those roles can be “easier” to master. When a LU controller does all of that, is not surprising the role has a high rate of failure even with internal candidates. I think recruiting externally would still result in people failing and won’t solve the issue.


Throwing money at people won’t always solve the problem. If someone is unhappy due to a variety of reasons and they are ready to retire or take a job elsewhere, they most likely won’t need/care about the extra money and will just leave anyway.


But again, most people that work on those locations have chosen to work there. I work in a place which I hve to drive as my train journey would be twice as long, plus my drive can be a pain in the backside because of traffic, but I made a conscious decision when applying to be here and made sure it would fine and wouldn’t affect my personal life. Many people that I work with wouldn’t be willing to do the same. On the same point, if my company forced me to move to any of the other locations in my area, it would make my life a lot harder and I would be extremely unhappy.

I think the main thing LU needs to somehow make the role more attractive to internal applicants.

Yes this is exactly it. They need to make it attractive to the right sort of people. The role is too specialised to be able to fill with any random person. No one in their right mind is going to take such a role if they live outside of London and are likely to end up on the other side of the city, this simply isn’t going to attract quality candidates.

 

[Horizon22]

An external candidate that would apply for such role would be aware of the sacrifices that they would be making by applying to a location 60min away and can plan their lives with that mind. Things are a bit different when you apply for a role that may be based in any of the control rooms in London and you won’t know where until you have already invested a lot of time into it. And sometimes for not a lot more money.

The role of a LU controller seems very complex and requires a lot of knowledge in many areas of LU. It seems that one person has the same responsibilities that multiple people have on mainline. (Signaller, SSM, Incident controller, Train Running controller, TOC train/service controller and maybe even more.) Individually, those roles can be “easier” to master. When a LU controller does all of that, is not surprising the role has a high rate of failure even with internal candidates. I think recruiting externally would still result in people failing and won’t solve the issue.


Throwing money at people won’t always solve the problem. If someone is unhappy due to a variety of reasons and they are ready to retire or take a job elsewhere, they most likely won’t need/care about the extra money and will just leave anyway.


But again, most people that work on those locations have chosen to work there. I work in a place which I hve to drive as my train journey would be twice as long, plus my drive can be a pain in the backside because of traffic, but I made a conscious decision when applying to be here and made sure it would fine and wouldn’t affect my personal life. Many people that I work with wouldn’t be willing to do the same. On the same point, if my company forced me to move to any of the other locations in my area, it would make my life a lot harder and I would be extremely unhappy.

I think the main thing LU needs to somehow make the role more attractive to internal applicants.

I get that - it’s a different kettle of fish when you’ve been happily working one place for 25 years and then are shunted somewhere else. SWR had this issue when control moved from Waterloo to Basingstoke and lots of newer controllers without that service experience.

Evidently there’s issues with retention & wider recruitment (maybe they need to put location on the job ad?!)

The position seems overwhelmingly complex and as I said upthread seems like it needs a serious review and possibly siphoning off job duties (where technically feasible) as it has:
- a high failure rate
- a low application rate
- low staff morale

Whilst the wider question of these locations not being overly attractive is hard to fix (if not impossible as Hammersmith is there now), there are other, smaller adjustments that might help.

 

[bramling]

I get that - it’s a different kettle of fish when you’ve been happily working one place for 25 years and then are shunted somewhere else. SWR had this issue when control moved from Waterloo to Basingstoke and lots of newer controllers without that service experience.

Evidently there’s issues with retention & wider recruitment (maybe they need to put location on the job ad?!)

The position seems overwhelmingly complex and as I said upthread seems like it needs a serious review and possibly siphoning off job duties (where technically feasible) as it has:
- a high failure rate
- a low application rate
- low staff morale

Whilst the wider question of these locations not being overly attractive is hard to fix (if not impossible as Hammersmith is there now), there are other, smaller adjustments that might help.

It probably wouldn’t be massively difficult to move the desks from Hammersmith, as essentially they are only a frontispiece for the signalling. The problem is finding a space to put them all.

The obvious starting point is to tweak things to reduce the individual controller workload. Then look at how the role can be made attractive to new entrants. Telling someone who lives north of London that they will go to Hammersmith isn’t going to entice them if they’re already on a similar salary, which a lot of people with relevant experience that is likely to contribute to a higher chance of passing the training are already going to be on.

Siphoning off workload will happen naturally, as the design of the CBTC naturally encourages signallers to carry out traditional controller tasks (the Jubilee and Northern already work in this way), but only once the upgrade is complete.

 

[Snow1964]

This evening TfL have gone one (two? as it is two lines) better than delays due to train cancellations

CircleSuspended
Circle Line: No service due to train cancellations.

Hammersmith & CitySuspended
Hammersmith and City Line: No service due to train cancellations. Tickets are being accepted on local buses.

Tube, Overground, Elizabeth line, DLR & Tram status updates

Realtime Tube, Overground, Elizabeth line, DLR & Tram travel updates.

tfl.gov.uk

Effectively the message doesn’t give a reason (why the cancellations happened), just the outcome (suspension) so is grammatically incorrect as “due to“ is misued (maybe English isn’t first Language of whoever garbled the grammar). It’s wrong because could have cancellations due to suspension, so have circular reasoning.

 

[Dstock7080]

Check before you travel: ongoing service disruption

We continue to have a number of staff shortages at Hammersmith Service Control Centre which are causing service disruption across the network. The coronavirus pandemic has meant we haven’t been able to continue our recruitment and training of new colleagues. While this work is now re-starting, it does still mean that we have some staffing challenges.

The team are working hard to minimise the impacts of these shortages on our customers but service disruptions may continue for the foreseeable future.

Service levels might increase or decrease at short notice so we’d recommend regularly checking TfL's Journey Planner each time you travel. Please note, this article doesn’t include all our upcoming service changes due to planned engineering works or other issues.

Friday 2 April 2021
On the Circle and Hammersmith & City lines, there will a shuttle service between Hammersmith and Moorgate until 11:00. From 11:00, there will be no service on these lines.

Saturday 03 April 2021
From 18:00, we’ll have a reduced service on the Circle and Hammersmith & City lines with no service from 21:00 onwards.

Sunday 4 April 2021
No service changes.

Monday 5 April 2021
Circle and Hammersmith & City lines, there will a shuttle service between Hammersmith and Moorgate until 11:00. From 11:00, there will be no service on these lines.

Tuesday 6 April - Friday 9 April 2021
From 17:00, there’ll be no service on the Circle and Hammersmith & City lines.”

 

[TFN]

No mention of the Metropolitan Line at all and these staff shortage problems are leaking into Monday to Friday. It really isn't looking good for those 3 lines in the coming weeks and months.

 

[bramling]

No mention of the Metropolitan Line at all and these staff shortage problems are leaking into Monday to Friday. It really isn't looking good for those 3 lines in the coming weeks and months.

Depends how much is being indirectly caused by shielding. I’ve no idea to what extent that’s a factor, but I’d imagine it is to at least some extent.

I’ve heard it rumoured that shielding staff are not going to be required back until 21st June, though not sure how true this is. Seems a tad excessive to me.

 

[700007]

Not entirely convinced that the Metropolitan line will remain unscathed this weekend....

 

[Mawkie]

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the bad feeling surrounding the line Controllers generally. They are in dispute with the Company and are refusing rest day work.

The RMT have a page explaining the complex situation.

4LM Dispute | RMT Service Control

Metropolitan, District, Circle, Hammersmith & City – All In Dispute The disastrous forcing through of the 4LM (Four Line Modernisation) programme with no thought or care given to the Service Control staff who’ve delivered it has pushed members to the edge across the Sub Surface Railway. Members...

www.rmtservicecontrol.com

 

[Snow1964]

Depends how much is being indirectly caused by shielding. I’ve no idea to what extent that’s a factor, but I’d imagine it is to at least some extent.

I’ve heard it rumoured that shielding staff are not going to be required back until 21st June, though not sure how true this is. Seems a tad excessive to me.

Bit odd, as Government has now officially ended shielding, so this appears to be a local agreement. And if short of staff it’s bonkers to initiate a policy that makes shortage worse

Even the vulnerable should have had second jab by early May (unless they chose to delay it), so where does 21st June come from.

 

[Mojo]

Bit odd, as Government has now officially ended shielding, so this appears to be a local agreement. And if short of staff it’s bonkers to initiate a policy that makes shortage worse

Even the vulnerable should have had second jab by early May (unless they chose to delay it), so where does 21st June come from.

Even though shielding has officially ended, companies will still have to do their own risk assessments for their vulnerable staff, and this may include not allowing them to return to work. For instance in my job, it is not actually possible to practice social distancing, accordingly I have a colleague that is on the shielding list and they have not been able to return to work since last March because the company has deemed it not possible to get them back to work in accordance with health & safety laws.

On the second point, I completely agree on the jabs front, however the UK government’s official line as of the present time is that the vaccine does not prevent transmission and it does not prevent illness. Presumably this will be dropped at some point in the not too distant future, but for the time being the fact someone has been vaccinated does not mean that H&S rules when it comes to Covid can be ignored.

 

[Horizon22]

Depends how much is being indirectly caused by shielding. I’ve no idea to what extent that’s a factor, but I’d imagine it is to at least some extent.

I’ve heard it rumoured that shielding staff are not going to be required back until 21st June, though not sure how true this is. Seems a tad excessive to me.

Although shielding staff at my place are back today...why wait 2 months? This includes people in control environments. Most modern control centres (definitely Hammersmith from the photos I’ve seen) are fairly spaced out with the bank of computers at each desk so should be perfectly feasible with a few sensible, extra precautions.

I too have had the email but at least they are upfront about the issue this time.

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the bad feeling surrounding the line Controllers generally. They are in dispute with the Company and are refusing rest day work.

The RMT have a page explaining the complex situation.

4LM Dispute | RMT Service Control

Metropolitan, District, Circle, Hammersmith & City – All In Dispute The disastrous forcing through of the 4LM (Four Line Modernisation) programme with no thought or care given to the Service Control staff who’ve delivered it has pushed members to the edge across the Sub Surface Railway. Members...

www.rmtservicecontrol.com

Wow and this has been rumbling on since 2012? 10 years on youd think there’d be some resolution. I am confused though because it mentions shortages but then long waiting lists although not sure what SCL1/2 mean.
For instance it says:

At the same time there is an SCL2 staffing crisis which these staff could assist in. New service control vacancies are also being advertised company wide against previously made agreements for them to be advertised within service control only.

This makes it sound like there’s lots of potential bodies available? What a mess this has been. Normally RMT releases are all bombastic rhetoric but this seems a little more refined and reasoned!

 

[Mawkie]

Although shielding staff at my place are back today...why wait 2 months? This includes people in control environments. Most modern control centres (definitely Hammersmith from the photos I’ve seen) are fairly spaced out with the bank of computers at each desk so should be perfectly feasible with a few sensible, extra precautions.

I too have had the email but at least they are upfront about the issue this time.



Wow and this has been rumbling on since 2012? 10 years on youd think there’d be some resolution. I am confused though because it mentions shortages but then long waiting lists although not sure what SCL1/2 mean.
For instance it says:
This makes it sound like there’s lots of potential bodies available? What a mess this has been. Normally RMT releases are all bombastic rhetoric but this seems a little more refined and reasoned!

Not exactly. The agreement to give Secondees a permanent contract was agreed a decade ago. More recently, LUL don't appear to have followed the agreement and that's where the bad feeling is coming from. I'm sure somebody will have a far greater understanding of the intricacies of this dispute.

(SCL 1/2 = Service Control Level 1 & 2, different grades of the 'Line Controller' role).

 

[Horizon22]

They've now changed the advice to no Circle Line all Easter weekend:

CIRCLE LINE: CIRCLE LINE: Good Friday 2 until Easter Monday 5 April, due to staff shortages in our control room, there will be no service on the Circle line. No train service due to unavailability of Control Staff. London Underground tickets will be accepted on London Buses via reasonable routes.

 

[Dstock7080]

They've now changed the advice to no Circle Line all Easter weeken

H&C currently running reduced service Hammersmith-Barking

 

[Chriso]

Met currently seems to be running normal service on the Uxbridge line. I just missed one at Ruislip and caught another 5 minutes behind